God’s invisible qualities have been clearly seen by scientists?

[tonychanyt]

Romans 1:

20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

Who were these people?

Let's see the context, 2 verses earlier:

18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness,

God sent the flood to drown everyone except Noah's family (Ge 6). The LORD rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from the LORD out of heaven (Ge 19:24).

Paul addressed wicked people who opposed the godly truth. These were unbelievers. These were not scientists. In Paul's time, there were no scientists as we define them today but most people believed in some kind of god.

19 since what may be known about God [god] is plain to them, because God [god] has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s [god's] invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

At that time, most people believed in some sort of god. Gentiles were idolaters. They had no excuse not to believe in the Creator God.

21 For although they knew God [god], they neither glorified him as God [god] nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

These were not scientists. They were pagans of image worshippers.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.

Paul targeted the immoral idolaters, not scientists.

25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy.

In Ro 1:20, Paul addressed immoral, wicked idolaters, not modern-day objective scientists. Paul did not offer scientific proof of God's existence. His argument was a theological one.

Do idolaters have any excuse not to believe in the Creator God?

No.

Do scientists or people in general today have any excuse to reject the Creator God?

No. Science today can neither prove nor disprove God. Further, they have no theological excuse to reject God. However, people can come up with all kinds of excuses. These excuses will not work on Judgment Day.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Romans 1:


Who were these people?

Scientists have no excuse; they should all believe. Was this Paul's point?

Let's see the context, 2 verses earlier:


Paul targeted wicked people who opposed the godly truth. These were unbelievers. These were not scientists. In Paul's time, there were no scientists as we define them today.


At that time, most people believed in some sort of god. Gentiles were idolaters.


These were not scientists. They were pagans of image worshippers.


Paul targeted the immoral idolaters, not scientists.


In Ro 1:20, Paul addressed immoral, wicked idolaters, not just any people, not modern-day objective scientists. Paul did not offer scientific proof of God's existence. His argument was a theological and moral one.

I have to disagree with you here. I believe Romans 1 indicates that NO ONE, including unbelieving scientists, has any excuse for not glorifying God as God and not being thankful to Him because He has made Himself plainly known to EVERYONE by what He has made and what He has done. To limit Paul's message in Romans 1 to only certain types of people would give other types of people, like unbelieving scientists, an excuse for not glorifying God, but no one has an excuse for not glorifying Him and not being thankful to Him.

 

[Mark Quayle]

I'm curious why you bring up scientists, here. Is this something you wrote after someone claimed it WAS about scientists?

 

[tonychanyt]

I have to disagree with you here.

I modified the OP to clarify. Please take another look. Feel free to follow up. Thanks.

 

[tonychanyt]

I'm curious why you bring up scientists, here. Is this something you wrote after someone claimed it WAS about scientists?

Good question.

Everything I have posted is an answer to someone on Reddit, hermeneutics.stackexchange.com, or other Christian forums. That's what I have been doing every day since my retirement

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Romans 1:


Who were these people?

Let's see the context, 2 verses earlier:


God sent the flood to drown everyone except Noah's family (Ge 6). The LORD rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from the LORD out of heaven (Ge 19:24).

Paul addressed wicked people who opposed the godly truth. These were unbelievers. These were not scientists. In Paul's time, there were no scientists as we define them today but most people believed in some kind of god.

I modified the OP to clarify. Please take another look. Feel free to follow up. Thanks.

Thanks for clarifying. So, I will respond to your edited post.

Why would unbelieving scientists not be included amongst the type of people Paul is talking about there? Are there not any unbelieving scientist homosexuals (Romans 1:26-27)? I believe so. Are there no scientists who suppress their knowledge of the truth? Of course there are, right?

Romans 1:28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

While Paul was talking about the kind of people who God took His wrath out on in Noah's and Lot's days, that doesn't mean what he wrote can't be applied to people today as well. Are there scientists who are greedy? Yes. Are there scientists who are murderers? Yes. Are there scientists who are "God-haters"? Yes. Are there scientists who are "arrogant and boastful"? Yes. And so on. Notice in verse 32 Paul expands what he was saying beyond those people of the past to include "those who do such things" and "also approve of those who practice them". That would include any scientists today who fit the description of the kind of people Paul was writing about in Romans 1.

 

[tonychanyt]

Why would unbelieving scientists not be included amongst the type of people Paul is talking about there?

Can you quote my words where I have asserted that?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Can you quote my words where I have asserted that?

At one point you said this:

God sent the flood to drown everyone except Noah's family (Ge 6). The LORD rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from the LORD out of heaven (Ge 19:24).

Paul addressed wicked people who opposed the godly truth. These were unbelievers. These were not scientists. In Paul's time, there were no scientists as we define them today but most people believed in some kind of god.

It seemed like you were making an effort to suggest that scientists are excepted from what Paul wrote about in Romans 1. That's just how it comes across. If not, then that's fine. I'm just going by how you are repeatedly talking about parts of Romans 1 not referring specifically to scientists. What is your point in saying that then? In other words, what is the point you're trying to make in relation to scientists?

 

[tonychanyt]

It seemed like you were making an effort to suggest that scientists are excepted from what Paul wrote about in Romans 1.

It addressed unbelievers, scientists or not. Feel free to follow up. I'll further clarify.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

It addressed unbelievers, scientists or not. Feel free to follow up. I'll further clarify.

Yes, it does. We agree on that. I have no desire to follow up. Thanks.