Goats and Sheep

[Rafael]

Where does the seperation of the goats and sheep fall into the time line for the ending events?
I know of the Bema judgment of the Saints and the Great White Throne judgment with its second death, but where and when does this event with the goats and sheep occur?

Mat.25:31 ¶ When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

 

[Justme]

Hi raphe,

Where does the seperation of the goats and sheep fall into the time line for the ending events?

The first verse you quoted:
Mat.25:31 ¶ When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

That IS the great white throne judgment.

What do you cal

 

[Rafael]

Hi raphe,


The first verse you quoted:
Mat.25:31 ¶ When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

That IS the great white throne judgment.

What do you cal

Okay, then where does that fit with the rapture of the Church and the meeting in the clouds? I thought the Great White Throne judgment is for all that have not accepted the blood of the lamb. The first resurrection that is called blessed is that of the Saints that meet the Lord in the air, whose judgment has already taken place at the cross. They will be judged as in 1 Corinthians at a reward ceremony where crowns are received and then tossed at the feet of Jesus who is to receive all the glory.
Perhaps the verse just means that the Saints will be present at the Great White Throne judgment even though they have already been resurrected and their judgment will be for the works they did for Christ. This clashes with the seperate Bema judgment I've heard preached.

Re 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

1 Cor.3:13 Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.
14 If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

 

[good4u]

Where does the seperation of the goats and sheep fall into the time line for the ending events?

Easy. It come after the close of Daniel's 70th week or another way to put it on the 1st day of the Millenium Kingdom. These who are judged are those that somehow survive the Tribulation and Day of the Lord. It will be similar to the Nuremburg Trials of the Germans after WWII. Except there will be one Judge and Jews will be witnesses to testify before the Lord who will or will not enter the Millenium Kingdom as royal human subjects. Those that pass judgment will have the privilege to repopulate the earth after fierce earthly destruction. It will be an awesome event.

 

[In Christ Forever]

Easy. It come after the close of Daniel's 70th week or another way to put it on the 1st day of the Millenium Kingdom. These who are judged are those that somehow survive the Tribulation and Day of the Lord. It will be similar to the Nuremburg Trials of the Germans after WWII. Except there will be one Judge and Jews will be witnesses to testify before the Lord who will or will not enter the Millenium Kingdom as royal human subjects. Those that pass judgment will have the privilege to repopulate the earth after fierce earthly destruction. It will be an awesome event.

I am confused on this good4u. The first resurrection appears to be the elect saints sealed in Christ from all nations, not just jews I believe. They are from all 12 tribes of jews, hebrews and gentiles. [sorry this is colorized but it is the way I have them in my study folders]First try and interpret the resurrection and 1000yrs in revelation, then go to Daniel and study if afterwards, otherwise, Daniel will never make sense, at least in my view. Just depends on whether you want to try and find the Truth in God's words I guess. I don't know it all myself, but I am learning. God bless.

According Paul, the resurrection isn't until the Lord returns. After that comes the end, period!!! So we have to harmonize the rest of the bible with what Paul says, or there is a major contradiction in the bible!![which we don't need] So what kingdom is Christ delivering to God the Father?

1 corin 15:21 For since by man [came] death, by Man also [came] the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those [who are] Christ's at His coming. 24 Then [comes] the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.

Revelation shows a first resurrection. You can't be resurrected unless you are dead first, correct? The ones that are thrown in the lake of fire are those not in the Book of Life, period!!![the goats] Those in the other books are thrown in the fire[goats].

revel 20: And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy [is] he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ[the sheep], and shall reign with Him a thousand years........
........ 11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is [the Book] of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

This shows death and hades thrown into the lake of fire, but not the sea. Yet the new jerusalem coming down has no more "sea". So what happened to the "sea"?
There was a beast that came from the sea and one from the earth.

13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire [the goats].

Revelation 21:1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.

Hebrew 12:25 See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if they did not escape who refused Him who spoke on earth, much more [shall we not escape] if we turn away from Him who [speaks] from heaven, 26 whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying, "Yet once more I shake not only the earth, but also heaven." 27 Now this, "Yet once more," indicates the removal of those things that are being shaken, as of things that are made, that the things which cannot be shaken may remain. 28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. 29 For our God [is] a consuming fire.

 

[Justme]

Hi raphe,

There would be no rapture of the church.

What is the BEMA judgment?

This first resurrection thing comes up a lot lately. Those of the first resurrection are in Heaven beheaded when we first learn of them. Any description or any explanation of how or why they are there or got there is speculation as far as I know. I see nothing that totally pins down this information.

They will be judged as in 1 Corinthians at a reward ceremony where crowns are received and then tossed at the feet of Jesus who is to receive all the glory.

I'm not sure where this comes from. I read the scripture to tell us that there is a raising of the dead and as they are raised from the dead they are given eternal life or condemned to the sulfur lake. This procedure involves all of the dead except those beheaded of Rev 20:4 that were in the so-called first resurrection.

I have never seen this BEMA thing in the bible, what is it?

Justme

 

[In Christ Forever]

They will be judged as in 1 Corinthians at a reward ceremony where crowns are received and then tossed at the feet of Jesus who is to receive all the glory.

This is an interesting verse. Why are they casting their crowns. Only the elders have them and not the 4 creatures.
Elders appear to be symbolic of the elder priests of Jerusalem, and I believe the 4 creatures are representing all nations. Guess I have to study on that.

reve 4:9Whenever the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to Him who sits on the throne, who lives forever and ever, 10 the twenty-four elders fall down before Him who sits on the throne and worship Him who lives forever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying: 11 "You are worthy, O Lord, To receive glory and honor and power; For You created all things, And by Your will they exist and were created."

I don't know if this is right, but I kind of viewed the 4 creatures as these. Much like the symbology in Ezekiel.

reve 4:7 The first living creature [was] like a lion[Tribe?], the second living creature like a calf[tongue?], the third living creature had a face like a man[people?], and the fourth living creature [was] like a flying eagle[nation?]. 8 [The] four living creatures, each having six wings, were full of eyes around and within. And they do not rest day or night, saying: "Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, Who was and is and is to come!"

reve 5:9... And they sang a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,

 

[In Christ Forever]

Bumpy. Why are the elders "casting" their crowns?

reve 4:9Whenever the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to Him who sits on the throne, who lives forever and ever, 10 the twenty-four elders fall down before Him who sits on the throne and worship Him who lives forever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying: 11 "You are worthy, O Lord, To receive glory and honor and power; For You created all things, And by Your will they exist and were created."

revel 3: 9 "Indeed I will make [those] of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie -- indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you. 10 "Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

I don't know if this is right, but I kind of viewed the 4 creatures as these. Much like the symbology in Ezekiel.

reve 4:7 The first living creature [was] like a lion[Tribe?], the second living creature like a calf[tongue?], the third living creature had a face like a man[people?], and the fourth living creature [was] like a flying eagle[nation?]. 8 [The] four living creatures, each having six wings, were full of eyes around and within. And they do not rest day or night, saying: "Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, Who was and is and is to come!"

 

[thereselittleflower]

It simply comes at "The end"



Peace in Him!

 

[good4u]

I am confused on this good4u. The first resurrection appears to be the elect saints sealed in Christ from all nations, not just jews I believe. They are from all 12 tribes of jews, hebrews and gentiles. [sorry this is colorized but it is the way I have them in my study folders]First try and interpret the resurrection and 1000yrs in revelation, then go to Daniel and study if afterwards, otherwise, Daniel will never make sense, at least in my view. Just depends on whether you want to try and find the Truth in God's words I guess. I don't know it all myself, but I am learning. God bless.

According Paul, the resurrection isn't until the Lord returns. After that comes the end, period!!! So we have to harmonize the rest of the bible with what Paul says, or there is a major contradiction in the bible!![which we don't need] So what kingdom is Christ delivering to God the Father?

1 corin 15:21 For since by man [came] death, by Man also [came] the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those [who are] Christ's at His coming. 24 Then [comes] the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.

Revelation shows a first resurrection. You can't be resurrected unless you are dead first, correct? The ones that are thrown in the lake of fire are those not in the Book of Life, period!!![the goats] Those in the other books are thrown in the fire[goats].

revel 20: And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy [is] he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ[the sheep], and shall reign with Him a thousand years........
........ 11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is [the Book] of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

This shows death and hades thrown into the lake of fire, but not the sea. Yet the new jerusalem coming down has no more "sea". So what happened to the "sea"?
There was a beast that came from the sea and one from the earth.

13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire [the goats].

Revelation 21:1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.

Hebrew 12:25 See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if they did not escape who refused Him who spoke on earth, much more [shall we not escape] if we turn away from Him who [speaks] from heaven, 26 whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying, "Yet once more I shake not only the earth, but also heaven." 27 Now this, "Yet once more," indicates the removal of those things that are being shaken, as of things that are made, that the things which cannot be shaken may remain. 28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. 29 For our God [is] a consuming fire.

Your confused because you make this more complicated than needs be. The G&S judgment has nothing to do with the resurrection -- NOTHING!!! It is for survivors who are left on earth when the Lord begins His Millenial rule. Why is this hard? It makes beautiful sense when you take it at face reading? Geesh!!!!

 

[In Christ Forever]

Your confused because you make this more complicated than needs be. The G&S judgment has nothing to do with the resurrection -- NOTHING!!! It is for survivors who are left on earth when the Lord begins His Millenial rule. Why is this hard? It makes beautiful sense when you take it at face reading? Geesh

Oh well, if you like the beauty of it, then God bless you for it. I am after the Truth in it and I do read it for the beauty in it. Christ's Spirit has already come to me, so whether He comes again to "reign on earth" or not, I know I have eternal life through Him.
Guess this is where we differ. Thanks for those beautifull words of encouragement brother. The bible is indeed a beautifull BOOK from God, I just happen to view it different than most but as long as we are each happy in our views, that is what counts, right?

Must be something hidden that I don't see. Doesn't show Christ reigning after the END.

1 corin 15:21 For since by man [came] death, by Man also [came] the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order:

Christ the firstfruits, afterward

those [who are] Christ's at His coming. 24

Then [comes] the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.

I KINGS 12:21 And when Rehoboam came to Jerusalem, he assembled all the House of Judah with the tribe of Benjamin, one hundred and eighty thousand chosen men who were warriors, to fight against the House of Israel, that he might restore the kingdom to Rehoboam the son of Solomon.

Revelation 13:1 Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns,

11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon.

All 12 tribes, the 2 nations of the House of Judah and the House of Israel. Both of them!!!

4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred [and] forty-four thousand of all[12 tribes] the tribes of the children of Israel [were] sealed:

What is fascinating is that Levi and Joseph are replaced by Dan and Ephraim in the land division of Ezekiel and they were of the northern tribes.

1 corin 2:9 But as it is written: "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him." 10 But God has revealed [them] to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.

 

[good4u]

The bible is indeed a beautifull BOOK from God, I just happen to view it different than most but as long as we are each happy in our views, that is what counts, right?

Umm...sorry, but no. The Bible is not about your opinion is no better than mine. The Bible is about TRUTH. It is what it is, not how one would want like for it to be. Your above comment is extremely dangerous and borders on being a heretic.

Must be something hidden that I don't see. Doesn't show Christ reigning after the END.

1 corin 15:21 For since by man [came] death, by Man also [came] the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order:

Christ the firstfruits, afterward

those [who are] Christ's at His coming. 24?

This verse in I Corn. has nothing to do with the S&G judgment. Apparently, you don't see a lot. If Christ doesn't reign, what's the point of his return?

Then [comes] the end,

when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.[/

QUOTE]

End of what? There has to be a beginning if there is an end.

 

[Tractor1]

In Christ forever writes:

Must be something hidden that I don't see. Doesn't show Christ reigning after the END.

1 corin 15:21 For since by man [came] death, by Man also [came] the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order:

Christ the firstfruits, afterward

those [who are] Christ's at His coming. 24

Then [comes] the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.

Help was provided in understanding where the millennial kingdom fit into the above Scripture in the dispensationalism forum, but you never again responded. It must not have fit with preconceived notions.

In Christ,
Tracey

 

[In Christ Forever]

Help was provided in understanding where the millennial kingdom fit into the above Scripture in the dispensationalism forum, but you never again responded. It must not have fit with preconceived notions.

In Christ,
Tracey

Can you lead me to that wonderfull enlightening post? Never mind, I will look for it. Really curious as how someone can contradict what Paul said. God bless.

rev 1:8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, [the] Beginning and [the] End," says the Lord, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

reve 14:14 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat [One] like the Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, "Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come for You to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe." 16 So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Boy I see this subject causes a lot of confusion....

According to "The Orthodox Church" http://www.oca.org/pages/orth_chri/Orthodox-Faith/Spirituality/The-Final-Judgement.html

There is only ONE judgement, there is no RAPTURE, there is no 1000 year reign...

The bible was written to support Christian doctrine which "already" existed, remember that the Church predates the written scriptures.

The bible was not written so we could have something to "figure out" later..... It is to be taken in context with the Church that wrote it...

As for the second coming...

It will happen quickly, the dead will be raised "bodily" first and then living and the dead will be judged. The judgment is as easy as seperating sheep from goats because those whose have sin in them will be different from those without sin.... they will be seperated by how they respond to the "Holy Light" of God, those who have sin will feel the light as eternal torment, those without sin feel the light as God's loving warmth....

Forgive me....

 

[Tractor1]

The bible was written to support Christian doctrine which "already" existed, remember that the Church predates the written scriptures.

In Christ,
Tracey

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

In Christ,
Tracey

Why are you sad?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Why are you sad?
Did you not know that the Church was here before the New Testament scripture was written?

Forgive me...

 

[Tractor1]

Why are you sad?
Did you not know that the Church was here before the New Testament scripture was written?

Forgive me...

Nothing in your original post mentioned the New Testament Scriptures. Even at that I don't agree with your position. The Scriptures were written to proclaim God as creator and Lord of all. It's the revelation of Himself and the record of what He has done and will do, and at the same time, it discloses the fact that every created thing is subject to Him and finds its highest calling and destiny only by conforming to His will.

In Christ,
Tracey

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Nothing in your original post mentioned the New Testament Scriptures. Even at that I don't agree with your position. The Scriptures were written to proclaim God as creator and Lord of all. It's the revelation of Himself and the record of what He has done and will do, and at the same time, it discloses the fact that every created thing is subject to Him and finds its highest calling and destiny only by conforming to His will.

In Christ,
Tracey

We will just have to agree to disagree I guess.. Sorry that I used "bible" where "New Testament" would have been more appropriate....

May I ask... do you know about "The Orthodox Church"? What church do you attend? http://www.greerlawfirm.com/psudduth/orthodox.htm

Might be better to use PM, as to not highjack this thread...

Forgive me...