Gnostic view of the afterlife

Alexanda20 said:

a fairly pagan sounding idea...

Click to expand...

How so?

The definition of pagan that I'm familiar with is the exact opposite of what is being discussed.

gord96 said:

My first thought was similar to what Soulgazer said. We all game from God and we will all return there.

Further thoughts are we aim to return to how we were at the beginning. Before we began to forget where we came from and the world blinded us. If we can remember who we are and where we are from and start the process to become like we were at the beginning, we can begin to find salvation now.

Click to expand...

Precisely. That is the moment of Gnosis, when you remember your home.

Soulgazer said:

Precisely. That is the moment of Gnosis, when you remember your home.

Click to expand...

WOW. Taken higher than I thought. I read it many times. I was picturing the beginning as Jesus himself. To know their end was to know him who finally proved that there was no end as long as one followed him.

I like your terminology better.

Felt like I've been to a sermon.

Home, home again
I like to be here when I can
When I come home cold and tired
It's good to warm my bones beside the fire



Far away across the field
The tolling of the iron bell
Calls the faithful to their knees
To hear the softly spoken magic spells
:o
(Pink Floyd - Time)

SG, I'm having trouble finding a verse it's along the lines of; "it's necessary to gain salvation in this life...". I don't know if it's relevant but it came to mind.

eachallberg said:

Home, home again
I like to be here when I can
When I come home cold and tired
It's good to warm my bones beside the fire



Far away across the field
The tolling of the iron bell
Calls the faithful to their knees
To hear the softly spoken magic spells
:o
(Pink Floyd - Time)

SG, I'm having trouble finding a verse it's along the lines of; "it's necessary to gain salvation in this life...". I don't know if it's relevant but it came to mind.

Click to expand...

ROTF- Never knew David Gilmore and Roger Waters would come back to haunt me from my pot smoking hippy days.

Phantasman said:

ROTF- Never knew David Gilmore and Roger Waters would come back to haunt me from my pot smoking hippy days.

Click to expand...

Hippy is so cliche. People that went through the depression of the 20's in America who were resentful of the youth coined that term.

Gord96,

"On the origin of the world", it ends with apocalyptic tones. The very end seems to be a reference to Thomas 18.
SG?...

How about: "Those who say they will die first and then rise are in error. If they do not first receive the resurrection while they live, when they die they will receive nothing." ?

It's from Philip

eachallberg said:

"On the origin of the world", it ends with apocalyptic tones. The very end seems to be a reference to Thomas 18.
SG?...

Click to expand...

Absolutely; The adoptionist theme is prevalent through all pre-catholic literature. From the Gospel of John telling us that "Ye do the works of your father" to The Sophia of Jesus telling us that the" perishable returns to the perishable" the call for mutual adoption between parent and child is needed for salvation.

Soulgazer said:

How about: "Those who say they will die first and then rise are in error. If they do not first receive the resurrection while they live, when they die they will receive nothing." ?

It's from Philip

Click to expand...

It's from Philip. It's the same subject matter.
I can't find it on gnosis.org but it's restored in the Gnostic bible. It's on pg. 276 under "in this world or the resurrection".

..."while we are in this world it is best to acquire resurrection for ourselves (discussed in the treatise on resurrection).
So when we strip off the flesh, we may rest and not walk in the middle"...

Thanks SG,
peace and grace be to you all.

gord96 said:

I read Philip the other day and thought of your post. The part you posted is preceded by;

Either someone will be in this world or in the resurrection or in the middle place. God forbid that I be found in the middle!

Interesting text! Especially when you ponder 'the middle' and what it could mean.

Click to expand...

Eternal torment isn't eternal according to Peter (or Origen)

Apocalypse of Peter:

And when they have dealt out many torments unto all whose heart was evil, thereafter out of the great river shall a wheel of fire encompass them, because they devised wicked works. And then shall they lament apart every one from another in miserable fate, fathers and infant children, mothers and sucklings weeping, nor shall they be sated with tears nor shall the voice of them that mourn piteously apart be heard (?); but far under dark and squalid Tartarus shall they cry in torment, and in no holy place shall they abide and expiate threefold every evil deed that they have done, burning in a great flame; and shall gnash their teeth, all of them worn out with fierce thirst and hunger (al. force violence), and shall call death lovely and it shall flee from them: for no more shall death nor night give them rest, and oft-times shall they beseech in vain the Almighty God, and then shall he openly turn away his face from them. For he hath granted the limit of seven ages for repentance unto men that err, by the hand of a pure virgin.
But the residue which have cared for justice and good deeds, yea, and godliness and righteous thoughts, shall angels bear up and carry through the flaming river unto light, and life without care, where is the immortal path of the great God; and three fountains, of wine and honey and milk. And the earth, common to all, not parted out with walls or fences, shall then bring forth of her own accord much fruit, and life and wealth shall be common and undistributed. For there shall be no poor man, nor rich, nor tyrant, nor slave, none great nor small any longer, no kings, no princes; but all men shall be together in common. And no more shall any man say ' night is come ', nor ' the morrow ', nor ' it was yesterday '. He maketh no more of days, nor of spring, nor winter, nor summer, nor autumn, neither marriage,nor death, nor selling, nor buying, nor set of sun, nor rising. For God shall make one long day.


And unto them, the godly, shall the almighty and immortal God grant another boon, when they shall ask it of him. He shall grant them to save men out of the fierce fire and the eternal gnashing of teeth: and this will he do, for he will gather them again out of the everlasting flame and remove them else whither, sending them for the sake of his people unto another life eternal and immortal, in the Elysian plain where are the long waves of the Acherusian lake exhaustless and deep bosomed;



Some artless iambic lines of uncertain date are appended here, which show what was thought of the doctrine:
' Plainly false: for the fire will never cease to torment the damned. I indeed could pray that it might be so, who am branded with the deepest scars of transgressions which stand in need of utmost mercy. But let Origen be ashamed of his lying words, who saith that there is a term set to the torments.'

Guess Origen needs some investigation.