Getting a gun for the first time.

mozo41 · May 13, 2018

thank you i appreciate your time and opinion

just to specify in this model Hatsan QE vortex break barrel spec for fps using lead pellets ... and yes i would be using the polymag predators for hunting

the the 177 gets 1000 fps
the 22 gets 800 fps
the 25 gets 650 fps
and the 30 gets 550 fps

thing is i want to shoot rabbits which i guess the 25 will do the job but as i stumble across wild pig often when out prospecting and it would be great if i could shoot a smallish one ( 60 to 80 pounds !!!!) and so knowing nothing about hunting i was wondering which would be better seeing the 25 has 100 fps on the 30 cal and the much smaller more penetrating pellet, but then the 30 cal has more energy at impact and so my question is in regards to killing this pig cleaner as i will need to shoot it in the brain and so need to penetrate its skull which i believe i will need to be within 20 to 25 yards ... i have searched for examples of this but so far found none ...and so i don't mean to put you on the spot and make you decide for me but seeing you being the hunter i just thought to ask your opinion ...

anyway the reason i have chose this particular air rifle is that it uses air compression over a spring and so can have it cocked whilst out and about ... it also has clasps for a shoulder strap which means i can have free hands whilst metal detecting ... it also has a shock absorber system so as not to break the scope ... it is also made in Turkey which be a six hour drive away and so for reason of guarantee makes sense ... oh and cosmetically i like the walnut stock ...

on a side note i was thinking seeing that this rifle being it the 177 or 22 or 25 or 30 uses the same air ( not nitro ) compression piston and so delivers the same poundage to the pellet at the breach why not use say a longer 25 pellet that will equal the weight of a 30 pellet and then one would get even more penetration and energy ... is this feasible ???

for those reading this and wondering why do i not just get a real gun, it is because in Bulgaria the red tape in place makes it nay impossible

MarkRohfrietsch · May 13, 2018

mozo41 said:
thank you i appreciate your time and opinion

just to specify in this model Hatsan QE vortex break barrel spec for fps using lead pellets ... and yes i would be using the polymag predators for hunting

the the 177 gets 1000 fps
the 22 gets 800 fps
the 25 gets 650 fps
and the 30 gets 550 fps

thing is i want to shoot rabbits which i guess the 25 will do the job but as i stumble across wild pig often when out prospecting and it would be great if i could shoot a smallish one ( 60 to 80 pounds !!!!) and so knowing nothing about hunting i was wondering which would be better seeing the 25 has 100 fps on the 30 cal and the much smaller more penetrating pellet, but then the 30 cal has more energy at impact and so my question is in regards to killing this pig cleaner as i will need to shoot it in the brain and so need to penetrate its skull which i believe i will need to be within 20 to 25 yards ... i have searched for examples of this but so far found none ...and so i don't mean to put you on the spot and make you decide for me but seeing you being the hunter i just thought to ask your opinion ...

anyway the reason i have chose this particular air rifle is that it uses air compression over a spring and so can have it cocked whilst out and about ... it also has clasps for a shoulder strap which means i can have free hands whilst metal detecting ... it also has a shock absorber system so as not to break the scope ... it is also made in Turkey which be a six hour drive away and so for reason of guarantee makes sense ... oh and cosmetically i like the walnut stock ...

on a side note i was thinking seeing that this rifle being it the 177 or 22 or 25 or 30 uses the same air ( not nitro ) compression piston and so delivers the same poundage to the pellet at the breach why not use say a longer 25 pellet that will equal the weight of a 30 pellet and then one would get even more penetration and energy ... is this feasible ???

for those reading this and wondering why do i not just get a real gun, it is because in Bulgaria the red tape in place makes it nay impossible

About the only thing I use my .22 pellet gun for now is knocking icicles off my and my neighbors eaves in the winter; and we get some real dangerous ones!

That being said, either .25 or .30 cal would work for your application.
The .25 with it's faster velocity will shoot flatter farther out.
Energy is energy. The .25 is lighter and moving faster; the .30 is heavier, and moving more slowly; the energy is virtually equal at the muzzle. Down range, the .30 will retain more energy. At the ranges you are talking about, I too would go with the .30 for the occasional hog. If I was going for Hogs all day long, I would go with something even heavier, like a .30 1000 fps PCP, but that would be a lot more expensive, and it would be heavier to carry. The gun you are looking at is already 10 lbs; it is a shame you can not get a little back-packing or folding .22 rifle or .410 shotgun; both light, compact, and adequate for your purposes.

mozo41 · May 13, 2018

MarkRohfrietsch said:
About the only thing I use my .22 pellet gun for now is knocking icicles off my and my neighbors eaves in the winter; and we get some real dangerous ones!

That being said, either .25 or .30 cal would work for your application.
The .25 with it's faster velocity will shoot flatter farther out.
Energy is energy. The .25 is lighter and moving faster; the .30 is heavier, and moving more slowly; the energy is virtually equal at the muzzle. Down range, the .30 will retain more energy. At the ranges you are talking about, I too would go with the .30 for the occasional hog. If I was going for Hogs all day long, I would go with something even heavier, like a .30 1000 fps PCP, but that would be a lot more expensive, and it would be heavier to carry. The gun you are looking at is already 10 lbs; it is a shame you can not get a little back-packing or folding .22 rifle or .410 shotgun; both light, compact, and adequate for your purposes.

thanks for your input and clearing up the energy factor as it had me a bit puzzled ... i want the 30 ( who would not ) but just want to be sure i am not wanting it just because its a 30 ... i mean i want practicality over the bragging rights thingy

MarkRohfrietsch · May 13, 2018

mozo41 said:
thanks for your input and clearing up the energy factor as it had me a bit puzzled ... i want the 30 ( who would not ) but just want to be sure i am not wanting it just because its a 30 ... i mean i want practicality over the bragging rights thingy

You are welcome, It is not so much the diameter of the projectile but it's mass that helps it retain energy.

If you had a longer pellet in .25 that had the same weight as the .30, (and we will assume the same muzzle velocity) it would theoretically retain more energy down range than the .30 because it has a higher ballistic coefficient and therefore would be less affected by air resistance, arriving at the target going faster than the .30.

I love physics!

mozo41 · May 13, 2018

MarkRohfrietsch said:
You are welcome, It is not so much the diameter of the projectile but it's mass that helps it retain energy.

If you had a longer pellet in .25 that had the same weight as the .30, (and we will assume the same muzzle velocity) it would theoretically retain more energy down range than the .30 because it has a higher ballistic coefficient and therefore would be less affected by air resistance, arriving at the target going faster than the .30.

I love physics!

cheers .... JSB exact diabolo do a 50.15 gr pellet in the 30 cal ... this would be a bit of a stretch to get this weight in a 25 but i found one also from JSB exact king heavy at 33.95 gr ... but the polymag predator marineimaging suggested for penetration still out ways this coming in at 44.75 ....

anyway i cant get ahead of things as i will go to one of Hatsans stores in Turkey and see what they have available so at this point just doing my homework ... i will also need to get a scope as well

MarkRohfrietsch · May 13, 2018

mozo41 said:
cheers .... JSB exact diabolo do a 50.15 gr pellet in the 30 cal ... this would be a bit of a stretch to get this weight in a 25 but i found one also from JSB exact king heavy at 33.95 gr ... but the polymag predator marineimaging suggested for penetration still out ways this coming in at 44.75 ....

anyway i cant get ahead of things as i will go to one of Hatsans stores in Turkey and see what they have available so at this point just doing my homework ... i will also need to get a scope as well

At the ranges you are talking; I'd go iron sights.

mozo41 · May 13, 2018

MarkRohfrietsch said:
At the ranges you are talking; I'd go iron sights.

true that .... how about a peep site ... is this the same ... i have just started to research this

marineimaging · May 13, 2018

mozo41 said:
true that .... how about a peep site ... is this the same ... i have just started to research this

Peep site is not the same as a scope. (I was the machine shop foreman for Burris for a while.) I also have scoped all of my rifles and even my air guns. A scope has lenses and a reticle which are assembled to bring in more light and zoom in. Scopes also exacerbate even the slightest movement. Of course, the reticle and housing allow you to adjust to center with both windage and elevation however, you are talking about carrying it around while working and that can lead to it being damaged. As long as you have retained your manual sights and set them up so that you can remove the scope and use them well you should be fine. However, never depend 100 percent on your scope and certainly not a battery powered scope or sighting device if you live in the wild or stay there for long times.

mozo41 · May 14, 2018

marineimaging said:
Peep site is not the same as a scope. (I was the machine shop foreman for Burris for a while.) I also have scoped all of my rifles and even my air guns. A scope has lenses and a reticle which are assembled to bring in more light and zoom in. Scopes also exacerbate even the slightest movement. Of course, the reticle and housing allow you to adjust to center with both windage and elevation however, you are talking about carrying it around while working and that can lead to it being damaged. As long as you have retained your manual sights and set them up so that you can remove the scope and use them well you should be fine. However, never depend 100 percent on your scope and certainly not a battery powered scope or sighting device if you live in the wild or stay there for long times.

agreed ... i plan on using it without scope whilst out and about and scoped when seeking a large rabbit for the pot or disposing of sewer rats, speaking of which got in my store a while back and destroyed everything ...

MarkRohfrietsch · May 18, 2018

mozo41 said:
agreed ... i plan on using it without scope whilst out and about and scoped when seeking a large rabbit for the pot or disposing of sewer rats, speaking of which got in my store a while back and destroyed everything ...

My wife has a red-dot on her .22; great field of vision, and I did win one of our scope class shoots with that rifle. This may be better for you than a scope; a good compromise between iron sights and scope.

Phil 1:21 · May 23, 2018

marineimaging said:
(I changed topic and subject) If you don't know what kind of gun to get then never order one without putting your hands on it and if at all possible, shoot one like it first. Listen to what other people say with a hefty grain of salt. Guns are like food, everybody likes something different.

This got me to thinking about an incident I had at a big chain outdoors retailer. I wanted to compare and contrast two different model handguns before potentially buying one. So I asked the sales rep to see them. She handed me one...with a trigger lock on. So I asked her to remove the lock, to which she replied that doing so was against their policy. I handed it back to her, thanked her for her time, and politely let her know there was no way I would buy a gun I couldn't even grip first, let alone feel the trigger travel and break.

This place sells a lot of guns, many to first time buyers. I have to wonder how many people buy something there they end up hating because they plopped down their money without being able to truly handle it first.

marineimaging · May 23, 2018

That is what I mean. So many people doing something they know nothing about give these big box stores permission to do what the want and the customer is just a piece of meat anymore. Of course, anybody who buys a Glock and thinks it is the cat's meow have never held a real gun and felt that crisp break and the pleasure of seeing six holes touching in the 10 ring. At least that is my humble opinion.

Darkhorse · Jun 13, 2018

Inkfingers said:
Be grateful that you don't live in Britain, where pistols are illegal (so now only the criminals have them).

I am VERY glad I don't live in Britain! Most of my British ancestors left there over 250 years ago. Before that, some were arrested for "carrying illegal firearms".

I'm also very glad to not live in California any more. Left there 14 years ago. It's not sliding into the ocean, it's sliding into a lower, hotter place!

Getting a gun for the first time.

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