Germany gets contracts for american highspeed train system

Umaro · Dec 4, 2010

High speed trains are fantastic, and something we need here in America, but there are some major flaws with implementing one with our current setup.

The main issue is that once you get to your destination, there isn't any way to travel locally. If you were to make a highspeed rail between Chicago and New York for instance, it would work fantastically. I'd ride the Chicago subway to the train station, ride the high speed rail to NY, then ride the NY subway to get to my destination. However, if you made it between say, Atlanta and Orlando, you'd be out of luck regardless the direction you traveled because there is no functioning public transit in either city. The buses we do have can't be said to qualify.

I think what we need to do first is to start making city wide rail systems, and then connect them with the high speed rails.

DeathMagus · Dec 4, 2010

Umaro said:
High speed trains are fantastic, and something we need here in America, but there are some major flaws with implementing one with our current setup.

The main issue is that once you get to your destination, there isn't any way to travel locally. If you were to make a highspeed rail between Chicago and New York for instance, it would work fantastically. I'd ride the Chicago subway to the train station, ride the high speed rail to NY, then ride the NY subway to get to my destination. However, if you made it between say, Atlanta and Orlando, you'd be out of luck regardless the direction you traveled because there is no functioning public transit in either city. The buses we do have can't be said to qualify.

I think what we need to do first is to start making city wide rail systems, and then connect them with the high speed rails.

While it's true that we do need better public transit, if high-speed rail is meant to replace planes then the main thrust of your point doesn't make much sense. Presumably a train-rider would have the same options a plane-flier has - taxis, rental cars, etc.

lordbt · Dec 4, 2010

That high speed rail would have to be able to compete with airlines. A Chicago to NY flight takes 5 1/2 hours and costs about $125. Plus there are flights leaving all the time. Can a train match that? I dont know.

sdmsanjose · Dec 4, 2010

Quote by Erik
Germany gets contracts for american highspeed train system

USA want build a highspeed train system and it looks like we got the contract.. Thats a billion $ contract. German corporations like Siemens, Krupp and the Deutsche Bahn will build up the entire railway system including several ICE trains. The ICE will be modified for our US customer.
It will be a modified version of our ICE 3 system.

Thats good news. Both of us will profit.

We earn a good contract and you guys get the best product you can get.

I travel 4400 miles round trip to see my daughter in Ohio. The fastest trains in Europe can go up to 160 MPH. If the train went 160mph at all times and did not ever stop then it would take 27.5 hours.

However, I am sure there are stops and that the train will not be traveling at 160mph all the time. I would say that that would easily add another 7.5 hours. So the total by high speed train would be 35 hours of travel time. Total air travel time including security check and baggage check-in comes in around 11.5 hours. In other words the airplane travel is THREE times faster.

In addition to not wanting to travel three times longer, I have the problem of vacation time. I want to spend the least amount time traveling so that I have more time with my family.

Train travel is not real attractive to me at this time.

As far a Germany getting the contract for an American high-speed rail system, there can be a better win win situation. I have no doubt that Germany is one of the best builders in the world but America is pretty good at what they want to be. Why do you think that lots of countries buy the modern day fhigh-tech ighter planes from USA?

I would hope that Germany got the contract with the stipulation that Germany buys a billion dollars worth of other stuff from the USA.

Outsourcing some of our contracts with Germany with stipulations may be acceptable to some Americans, that is OK by me. I just do not see how America is letting the Big American Corporations out source millions of jobs to countries that pay less than minimum wage. I know the politicians like to manipulate with words like free-trade and competition to make it look like it is all good for America. Some is good for America but losing most of our manufacturing and now some technology jobs to other countries seems like it will hurt the working men and women in America.

MorkandMindy · Dec 4, 2010

allhart said:
Americans will sellout their own people for the oh might buck. They will bit their nose off despite their face! We have no industry left to support ourselves or reinvest money by giving it up to other nations!

allhart said:
I'm in construction as an electrician and see this all the time.....last yr America closed 42440 factory's down. The cards are stacked against us(the underdog). Look at these company's selling out to foreign entity's....we used to have pride and would only sell to our fellow countryman. It used not be just about the oh might dollar! One world Gov't is on our heels and people are giving up their identity! Laying down for it! Some of these people and Corporations are selling out their fellow countryman for profit!

Like we can call Budweiser American beer now after selling it to Germany for 36 Billion or Car-hart,Klein etc. NOTHING and I mean NOTHING is American made anymore!! Even some of the signs are saying American BUILT if your lucky!

Hi There allhart in California,

I'm also an electrician, working in England. The situation here is actually even worse than there, for example I'm not working in the construction industry but I'm actually helping dismantle one of the most successful industries Britain had.

It was shut down because it was government subsidised and we are now buying the government subsidised product from France and Germany.

Previously I was making superconducting body scanner magnets for MRI which was the most profitable business apart from the weapons trade that Britain had left. The owner sold it to the Germans so it is pretty much gone, and that was the end of that job. Oddly the factory is in the Prime Minister's own area but the Prime Minister doesn't care.

.

canukian · Dec 5, 2010

IbrahimFahim said:
You are operating from belligerence to hide. It is like bullying in a manner of speaking, but it is also dangerous because someone usually calls your bluff.

you are so far behind you think you are ahead.

MorkandMindy · Dec 5, 2010

lordbt said:
That high speed rail would have to be able to compete with airlines. A Chicago to NY flight takes 5 1/2 hours and costs about $125. Plus there are flights leaving all the time. Can a train match that? I dont know.

It is 714 miles from Chicago Il to New York so high speed train could do it in 5 hours travel time. Actual flight time should be 2 hours. Will need to add security check times to both.

ErikSteiner · Dec 5, 2010

You are wrong, the ICE 3 drives not with 160mph. It drives with around 218mph. And thats just the allowed speed in germany. On testsystems the ICE made already 310mph. You have wide land, you can construct long railways without curves, that means, that the modified ICE could be boosted to almost 400mph. You build up a complete new system. That allows you to avoid bottlenecks.

I think most here can´t imagine how our ICE works. Seeing that train in action is insane. It even creates a sonic boom when it enters tunnels. If a door would fail at high speed, passengers around it would get sucked out similar to a plane. The ICE system is very very good and infact the best highspeed train that you can get. Ozjer countries know that too. We just install that system in spain and even russia. Russia is much bigger than USA and it works there too. Putin is a big fan of it. I don´t denie, that the system has some problems in russia. The problem in russia is the bad infrastructure. You must imagine that this highspeed train thunders through poor villages that leads often to death of villagers because the railways has almost no security installations in russia.

And about your idea, that germany should buy something from USA too. What do you think could we get? We don´t need technology, because we build evrything ourself. I thought about food first, but in your country is genetic modified food and thats banned here. So i think we could propably buy gas and oil from usa. We depend too much on russian gas and oil.

I know that you guys build very good planes but thats no option for us. EADS (Airbus) is also german owned company ad we cant buy planes anywhere else because of that. Another thing would be an aircraft carrier. We build the best submarines but we have 0 experience with aircraft carriers. Our navy operates worldwide and we feel, that it would be better if we have one. The question is, if USA would help us with that?!

MorkandMindy · Dec 5, 2010

sdmsanjose said:
I travel 4400 miles round trip to see my daughter in Ohio. The fastest trains in Europe can go up to 160 MPH...

Why do you think that lots of countries buy the modern day fhigh-tech ighter planes from USA?

I would hope that Germany got the contract with the stipulation that Germany buys a billion dollars worth of other stuff from the USA.

Outsourcing some of our contracts with Germany with stipulations may be acceptable to some Americans, that is OK by me. I just do not see how America is letting the Big American Corporations out source millions of jobs to countries that pay less than minimum wage. I know the politicians like to manipulate with words like free-trade and competition to make it look like it is all good for America. Some is good for America but losing most of our manufacturing and now some technology jobs to other countries seems like it will hurt the working men and women in America.

The US is run mainly by the very wealthy, they own the media and tell the public if a President is a success or not.

The most worrying bit is ideas are legitimised by their use in the media. A statement like 'free trade is good for America' is readily accepted despite the obvious problems it could bring. And the belief that competition is good is patently untrue in many situations, yet it is still a string that can be pulled on whenever desired.

The very wealthy are not restricted to living in the US, and appear to be happy to have their money in other countries and in other forms than US dollars. It is a mistake to believe the very rich and powerful have an allegence to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. That's what ordinary Americans do.

Read what ErikSteiner said in post 40

ErikSteiner said:
You are wrong, the ICE 3 drives not with 160mph. It drives with around 218mph. And thats just the allowed speed in germany. On testsystems the ICE made already 310mph. You have wide land, you can construct long railways without curves, that means, that the modified ICE could be boosted to almost 400mph. You build up a complete new system. That allows you to avoid bottlenecks.
...

OK, then it's a snap in replacement for aircraft.

ErikSteiner · Dec 5, 2010

Yes, here our corporations are protected. Its our goal to hold our key corporations and technologies in our country. We have an actual example for that. Germanys biggest construction company "HochTief" was in danger to be bought from a spanish company. We have a law, that our government must agree with such mergers. And in that case it was denied.

Another example are banks. Our Hypo Bank was in big trouble in 2008. An american investor wanted buy it. But chancellor Merkel stopped that and nationalized the Bank.

You americans sold your banks to japan in that time.

Sketcher · Dec 5, 2010

I don't have a problem with high speed trains, but I don't see why they need to be government run. I don't have a problem with German companies building the system either, I've been on Amtrak and I am not impressed with it. What I don't see though, is how this train system will be that much better at avoiding derailments. If there's anything I don't like, it's sitting at a train station for 2-12 hours waiting for train which was behind a derailed train that doesn't have the food I preordered and prepaid for. And I am leery of using public funding for this sort of thing.

ErikSteiner · Dec 5, 2010

Sketcher said:
I don't have a problem with high speed trains, but I don't see why they need to be government run. I don't have a problem with German companies building the system either, I've been on Amtrak and I am not impressed with it. What I don't see though, is how this train system will be that much better at avoiding derailments. If there's anything I don't like, it's sitting at a train station for 2-12 hours waiting for train which was behind a derailed train that doesn't have the food I preordered and prepaid for. And I am leery of using public funding for this sort of thing.

In germany our railway system is government run, because we want a trong nation. Its a different way of thinking. Beside that your Amtrak System is very old and bad. You can´t compare that to our ICE. Our system is almost immune against failures. all railways have 2 rails paralell to each other. If a trains fails, the other following trains are automaticly ordered on other rails. The time schedule is very accurat. If it comes to late you get 50% of the price back if you waited longer than 30 minutes.

ErikSteiner · Dec 5, 2010

here i show you our ICE 3 system:

Its better you see it yourself:

YouTube - ICE 3 at the rate of 300 km/h

YouTube - ICE3 fliegt durch Montabaur mit 300 km/h

Sketcher · Dec 5, 2010

Goodtry said:
What really cheeses me off is the lack of American innovation with this technology. No offense to the Germans (who actually do fine work), but its the reason WHY multi-billion dollar contracts are being farmed out to foreign companies instead of that money being invested in American companies.

Shouldn't be any surprise, when Amtrak is publicly run. When there's no opportunity for a company to make money doing something (it is illegal to compete with Amtrak) is it any surprise that there's going to be stagnation. Market competition breeds investment and development. We haven't had that with rail and trains in quite some time.

ErikSteiner said:
In germany our railway system is government run, because we want a trong nation. Its a different way of thinking.

Hey, we have government-run stuff too, and we let the government run it because we think it will make us a strong nation. Our military would be a good example of that. So are our superhighways (an idea we got from you). But some things are not well run - like Amtrak. Government run is just that, government run. It doesn't automatically mean something is going to be better. For some things you need it, for other things you don't. I'm not sure that we need government involvement with high-speed rail. You buy a train ticket, and that's supposed to finance your trip. Fine. You can do that privately, and conveniently. The main reason the government pays for our roads is it's more convenient for people to finance them with local taxes and gas taxes than to pay tolls at every intersection. It's a different beast from train travel.

ErikSteiner said:
Beside that your Amtrak System is very old and bad. You can´t compare that to our ICE. Our system is almost immune against failures. all railways have 2 rails paralell to each other. If a trains fails, the other following trains are automaticly ordered on other rails. The time schedule is very accurat. If it comes to late you get 50% of the price back if you waited longer than 30 minutes.

No question ICE is more advanced, but we also have parallel rails here. And they can be blocked by derailments, because derailments are very messy, and trains are very long. And much of it has to do with the way it's run, too. Amtrak is poorly run - now using our heads, who is most likely to be running this high-speed rail when it is in place? Why would it not be the same kind of people that run Amtrak?

lordbt said:
First of all, if you want to understand why I think it wont work, you are best not trying to follow the non argument of people who dont know what they are talking about. But your point about raising taxes on fuel proves my point--that would amount to taxpayers subsidizing a mode of transportation that no on wants. The success or failure of high speed rail would largely depend upon cost and convenience. If your goal is to make high speed rail more attractive by making everything else more costly, you have not put forth a good product. You are just engaging in a tyrannical control of the public.

What I don't get is when liberals get all upset about evil corporations that manipulate the public by sabotaging competing industries, but somehow when the government does the same thing, it's suddenly OK. It's as if they don't see that a state-run monopoly is still a monopoly.

allhart said:
Like we can call Budweiser American beer now after selling it to Germany for 36 Billion or Car-hart,Klein etc. NOTHING and I mean NOTHING is American made anymore!! Even some of the signs are saying American BUILT if your lucky!

For good American beer, you want the local microbrews.

ErikSteiner · Dec 5, 2010

Amtrak can not do much wrong with our system. We don´t just deliver the trains, we also build you the entire system. Our trains are controlled from a computer system. The guy who sits in the locomotion is just there to control if evrything is ok. The Deutsche Bahn (our german railway company) would advice AMTRAK and supervice it.

RETS · Dec 5, 2010

ErikSteiner said:
I don´t understand you americans.

1) It's "Americans," capitalized; same as you and your countrymen are "Germans."

2) Judging only from your statements in this forum, and if I'm wrong I apologize, you have never tried.

canukian said:
IbrahimFahim said:

You are operating from belligerence to hide. It is like bullying in a manner of speaking, but it is also dangerous because someone usually calls your bluff.

Click to expand...

you are so far behind you think you are ahead.

Well said.

ErikSteiner said:
Yes, here our corporations are protected. Its our goal to hold our key corporations and technologies in our country. We have an actual example for that. Germanys biggest construction company "HochTief" was in danger to be bought from a spanish company. We have a law, that our government must agree with such mergers. And in that case it was denied.

Another example are banks. Our Hypo Bank was in big trouble in 2008. An american investor wanted buy it. But chancellor Merkel stopped that and nationalized the Bank.

You americans sold your banks to japan in that time.

Guess we ought to just thank our lucky stars there's such a standard in the world for the rest of us to measure ourselves by, huh?

ErikSteiner said:
In germany our railway system is government run, because we want a trong nation. Its a different way of thinking. Beside that your Amtrak System is very old and bad. You can´t compare that to our ICE. Our system is almost immune against failures. all railways have 2 rails paralell to each other. If a trains fails, the other following trains are automaticly ordered on other rails. The time schedule is very accurat. If it comes to late you get 50% of the price back if you waited longer than 30 minutes.

1) No system is immune- Period. This is still planet Earth, and in spite of what idealistic morons may say, humans are not capable of perfection.
2) I have a feeling that posters can compare whatever they like.
3) "Government run" does not always equal "Strong."

Sketcher said:
Shouldn't be any surprise, when Amtrak is publicly run. When there's no opportunity for a company to make money doing something (it is illegal to compete with Amtrak) is it any surprise that there's going to be stagnation. Market competition breeds investment and development. We haven't had that with rail and trains in quite some time.

Oh SNAP! You mean there might be a real legitimate reason the high-speed rail, run by a separate company, wouldn't work?! [/sarcasm]

Sketcher said:
Hey, we have government-run stuff too, and we let the government run it because we think it will make us a strong nation. Our military would be a good example of that. So are our superhighways (an idea we got from you). But some things are not well run - like Amtrak. Government run is just that, government run. It doesn't automatically mean something is going to be better. For some things you need it, for other things you don't. I'm not sure that we need government involvement with high-speed rail. You buy a train ticket, and that's supposed to finance your trip. Fine. You can do that privately, and conveniently. The main reason the government pays for our roads is it's more convenient for people to finance them with local taxes and gas taxes than to pay tolls at every intersection. It's a different beast from train travel.

To contrast the point, look at the government run programs of welfare, medicaid, social security... Wow. This list could get pretty long...

Sketcher said:
What I don't get is when liberals get all upset about evil corporations that manipulate the public by sabotaging competing industries, but somehow when the government does the same thing, it's suddenly OK. It's as if they don't see that a state-run monopoly is still a monopoly.

If they don't see it, it's by choice. For example:

Liberal_Nincompoop said:
It can only be a monopoly if the offending party is big business. Monopolies don't come into play with the government because the government is one by the people!

Of course, not all liberals I've known are like the example- However those whom are have said this almost verbatim. What they do not seem to grasp is that by the time the government gets to a point of taking over a private company/industry, they are no longer governing for or by the people. They are not a government of the people. They are trending towards oligarchy.

ErikSteiner · Dec 5, 2010

"Guess we ought to just thank our lucky stars there's such a standard in the world for the rest of us to measure ourselves by, huh?"

Sorry i don´t understand that. Can you explain that?

RETS · Dec 5, 2010

ErikSteiner said:
"Guess we ought to just thank our lucky stars there's such a standard in the world for the rest of us to measure ourselves by, huh?"

Sorry i don´t understand that. Can you explain that?

Put simply, some may want to emulate Germany- Good for them. Some of us, however, like the fact that the US is not Germany, and do not want to be Germany. Many Americans actually, if polled sentiment is an indicator.

ErikSteiner · Dec 5, 2010

RETS said:
Put simply, some may want to emulate Germany- Good for them. Some of us, however, like the fact that the US is not Germany, and do not want to be Germany. Many Americans actually, if polled sentiment is an indicator.

i see, does that mean you see us in a negative light?

RETS · Dec 5, 2010

ErikSteiner said:
i see, does that mean you see us in a negative light?

It means I see some of the things the German government does as detrimental to those ruled.

At a very basic level- When the nation rests upon the government, if the government crumbles, then the nation falls. When the government rests upon the nation, if the government falls, the nation rebuilds.

See what I'm saying?

Germany gets contracts for american highspeed train system

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