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Hello SZ.
I will accept a radio dating as long as there is no contamination of the sample. I reject all radio dates until the samples are 100% free of contamination. I once saw a radio carbon dating of a dead sea scroll, four tests delivered four different results?
What is there to think about? If God is real then mans guessing doesn't matter. And in the end when I die Gods not going to be giving me a test on this stuff. Christians know the answers, non-christians don't accept the answers because they fear God may be real. So having science give answers, even if incorrect ones make them feel better. Like I've said before, if non-christians really didn't believe God was real, they wouldn't be wasting their time at a christian forum. For example I don't believe allah is real, thus I don't care to go to a muslim forum. I have better things to do.Then you have just admitted that you are not thinking rationally. Are you sure that is the route that ou want to go?
But if the ideas of how to do the tests to achieve said results are made by man, how can we be sure its right? Such as carbon dating. Its done by a machine that was programmed by men who think they put in the right data. So when it does what it does, we assume it must be correct. What if the way we programmed it was wrong? Its all man made devices using man made coding using man made ideas. I'd also point to the fact that you say if a person cannot justify his concepts... well science used to justify that we were the center of the universe and that we could not fly. Look how that turned out.Not if the evidence is clear and can be interpreted consistently. And be tested. Guess what? Those concepts can and have been tested. Science does not work in a vacuum. If a person cannot justify his concepts they are not accepted.
I point to my previous replies above. Mans trying to prove stuff that may not be able to be tested. Like the big bang, can you really prove it happened? Alot of it is simply guessing. "Well everything seems to be speeding away so it points to the fact there was a big bang and everything expanded outwards!". And interestingly enough science does seem stumped though on what existed before the big bang. So you can tell us how everything started but not what existed before it? Now with God, nothing existed before Him. He just existed. But since we are human this idea makes no sense to us. We see things in terms of time and not being able to make something out of nothing. Hence Gods intelligence is beyond ours.You clearly do not know what a scientific theory is. A scientific theory is an idea that explains a wide number of problems. It also has to be testable. A concept does not become a theory until it been tested many times by many different scientists. In the world of science laws do NOT outrank theories. That is a common misconception.
Well I do agree that as time goes on we do learn more and get closer to answering some things. But I do believe even if given millions of more years, we will not be able to figure out everything. But what if science does figure out that somethings have no real answers and may possibly only lead to one answer..... we were created. What does science do then?Yep, that is going to happen. But guess what? The changes in science tend to get smaller and smaller as we get closer and closer to the "correct" idea. There is no going back to old myths.
I've yet to been shown how it has been proven wrong. Heck even non-christian historians for example showed Jesus was a real person. If it was all fake then Jesus shouldn't exist at all in history since it was just a fake tale written by men.Actually it is a never ending cycle of more and more accurate answers. You are looking at the little bit of uncertainty and clinging to a concept that was shown to be wrong a long long time ago.
God speaks through them so of course what the write is perfect. Not sure why thats hard to understand really. As for God not getting it right, what is "it"? Creating us and we biting the apple? Well we were given free will, it was our choice do bite it. Had nothing to do with Him. He is a God that keeps His promises and can't lie. So to interfere and be like "WAIT. I'm taking that apple away so you don't mess up!" would be going against His promises of free will.That may be true. God may be that way. But the Bible is a work of man. Even in your myth God could not get it right. How does an imperfect created creature write a perfect book?
But given all the supposed proof that God is a lie, why is christianity still around? Why is the word still spreading so much around the planet? There have probably ben tens of thousands if not more "religions" through time that have died off. Seems christianity must be real and true if its still here.Beliefs in god(s) are constantly changing though. The beliefs you have today are a product of the culture in which you were born. If you were born in a different culture or a different time, you may well profess an entirely different belief system.
For example, there was a time when polytheistic beliefs were the dominant view. That shifted over the last couple thousand years towards monotheistic beliefs. Who knows how things will continue to shift in the future.
This is a great post, not sure how I missed it. I have noticed the weird results with things. Such as when you watch science says "We think this thing happened between 35,000,000 to 50,000,000 years ago. Um.... thats a awfuly big "Not sure when" gap. How can we trust since terrible devices that apparently are constantly in accurate.I will accept a radio dating as long as there is no contamination of the sample. I reject all radio dates until the samples are 100% free of contamination. I once saw a radio carbon dating of a dead sea scroll, four tests delivered four different results?
The dating of the dead sea scroll is a mere touch over two thousand years ago, a recent sample in the realm of history. How can we trust carbon dating for any sample further back in history?
Hello SZ.
I will accept a radio dating as long as there is no contamination of the sample. I reject all radio dates until the samples are 100% free of contamination. I once saw a radio carbon dating of a dead sea scroll, four tests delivered four different results?
The dating of the dead sea scroll is a mere touch over two thousand years ago, a recent sample in the realm of history. How can we trust carbon dating for any sample further back in history?
Hello SZ.One has to look at materials on a case by case basis. Grasping at straws in not an honest technique. That is what you are trying to do right now.
Positive HH, the Great Isaiah scroll was carbon dated four times, all dates were before the era of the Christ. Hence the messianic prophecies hold, which is great news for anyone who may have thought, that the prophecies were added after the event.Since many scrolls and fragments have been found at Qumran, are you sure those four tests were not of different scrolls? The dating is supported by other archeological finds, in particular coins, and all the dating techniques give a total span of 700 years from 400 BCE to 300 CE.
Hello SZ.
Just asking if any scientific dating techniques are free from the risk of contamination?
In the documentary "Is Genesis History", they mention that all geological dating techniques are wrong, or misleading if you will. The narrator states a few times during the documentary that geological dating is a fundamental question, but unfortunately, no arguments are given to support the idea.
But given all the supposed proof that God is a lie, why is christianity still around? Why is the word still spreading so much around the planet? There have probably ben tens of thousands if not more "religions" through time that have died off. Seems christianity must be real and true if its still here.
Hinduism is older than Christianity and it's still around. Why are you a Christian and not a Hindu?
Yes science is wrong about dating things. I mean think about it for a minute. When you think of God and how smart He is, then think of our scientists.... they are nothing in terms of smart. God is about 10,000,000,000,000,000 times smarter.
So when a less intelligent human scientist creates a tool based on various data they "think" may be right and then use this flawed tool to date stuff that can date stuff based on what the data the scientists put into the tool.... does that seem like it could be accurate? No. I'm not saying all science is wrong obviously. I mean we know how babies are made and we know how humans grow because we can literally see and study the subject. But we can't guess the age of anything at all because there is no real way to observe it in crazy long lengths.
I mean unless a scientist has been around 65 million years, how we can claim that is the age of anything? At this point we are just throwing darts at a dart board and hoping some things we land on somehow line up. I'd also add the devil is good at what he does, so maybe hes using things to throw science off so he can get us to doubt God. That is his goal after all. What better way then to have science tell us the age of the everything, how we came about, how the universe came about...etc.
In the end we can't really say we as christians have total evidence of certain things (like Genesis stuff), but we required to have faith and believe nothing is impossible with God. So with that in mind no scientists can ever make me believe what they say is true about something like if the flood happened or how long it was or when earth was made...etc. Because even if I were to put faith aside, I realize humans are "dumb and flawed" compared to the intelligence of God. I mean He created everything after all.
Hello SZ.
Just asking if any scientific dating techniques are free from the risk of contamination?
Hinduism is older than Christianity and it's still around. Why are you a Christian and not a Hindu?
Well it would be impossible for these religions to be older given the fact God created man and this the first religion is really Judaism.Add Buddhism to the list. Shintoism, Taoism and on and on.
Well it doesn't really matter what wording someone uses to try and get out of the argument (such as pointing out fallacies for example). Nothing will ever change me and my views. Just as nothing may ever change your views. Hence the normal atheist vs christian stalemate.Circular argumentation to arrive at an assumed conclusion, isn't really a convincing argument.
Well it would be impossible for these religions to be older given the fact God created man and this the first religion is really Judaism.
What is there to think about? If God is real then mans guessing doesn't matter. And in the end when I die Gods not going to be giving me a test on this stuff. Christians know the answers, non-christians don't accept the answers because they fear God may be real. So having science give answers, even if incorrect ones make them feel better. Like I've said before, if non-christians really didn't believe God was real, they wouldn't be wasting their time at a christian forum. For example I don't believe allah is real, thus I don't care to go to a muslim forum. I have better things to do.
But if the ideas of how to do the tests to achieve said results are made by man, how can we be sure its right? Such as carbon dating. Its done by a machine that was programmed by men who think they put in the right data. So when it does what it does, we assume it must be correct. What if the way we programmed it was wrong? Its all man made devices using man made coding using man made ideas. I'd also point to the fact that you say if a person cannot justify his concepts... well science used to justify that we were the center of the universe and that we could not fly. Look how that turned out.
I remember the recent news about gravity waves. They said it could change some things we previously thought were right/wrong. Again mistakes.
I point to my previous replies above. Mans trying to prove stuff that may not be able to be tested. Like the big bang, can you really prove it happened? Alot of it is simply guessing. "Well everything seems to be speeding away so it points to the fact there was a big bang and everything expanded outwards!". And interestingly enough science does seem stumped though on what existed before the big bang. So you can tell us how everything started but not what existed before it? Now with God, nothing existed before Him. He just existed. But since we are human this idea makes no sense to us. We see things in terms of time and not being able to make something out of nothing. Hence Gods intelligence is beyond ours.
Well I do agree that as time goes on we do learn more and get closer to answering some things. But I do believe even if given millions of more years, we will not be able to figure out everything. But what if science does figure out that somethings have no real answers and may possibly only lead to one answer..... we were created. What does science do then?[/quite]
So what? Knowing more is always better than knowing less. You seem to be afraid of the real world and want not only to hide your head, but for everybody else to hide their heads as well.
Which is why in some ways I like when people thought about the big bang, because really to some degree one could say God created a "big bang" since He brought everything into being from nothing and in a flash (well 7 days). Sounds like a big bang to me.
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The seven day myth has been refuted. Like it or not you are an evolved being. You can still be a Christian and not believe the myths of Genesis.
I've yet to been shown how it has been proven wrong. Heck even non-christian historians for example showed Jesus was a real person. If it was all fake then Jesus shouldn't exist at all in history since it was just a fake tale written by men.
That is only because you are not willing to learn. Yes, Jesus probably was a real person. But the Jesus story is separate from the Adam and Eve myth. You can still be a Christian and accept science.
God speaks through them so of course what the write is perfect. Not sure why thats hard to understand really. As for God not getting it right, what is "it"? Creating us and we biting the apple? Well we were given free will, it was our choice do bite it. Had nothing to do with Him. He is a God that keeps His promises and can't lie. So to interfere and be like "WAIT. I'm taking that apple away so you don't mess up!" would be going against His promises of free will.
I am sorry, but that does not fly. Did you forget that according to your myth God screwed up creation? You don't even seem to understand the myth. The "apple" had knowledge of right and wrong. According to the myth God made Adam and Eve without knowledge of right and wrong. Tell me, would you kill a puppy for peeing on the floor? A puppy has no knowledge of right and wrong.
And another point, if God cannot lie then there was no Adam and Eve. There was no Noah's Ark. The evidence clearly tells us that those events never happened. Your God would have had to make that evidence according to your beliefs. That would make him a liar by your standards if the Noah's Ark story was true.
Sort of like how parents let their kids (who are adults in this situation) make mistakes. A parent cannot really do much to stop an adult child from doing bad things. Its up to them and they live the consequences.
Parents can't have a hissy fit and kick their children out of the house the first time that they mess up either. Yet according to your beliefs that is what your God did.
You can't both give him power and knowledge and then excuse him from the bad acts that he did.
But given all the supposed proof that God is a lie, why is christianity still around? Why is the word still spreading so much around the planet? There have probably ben tens of thousands if not more "religions" through time that have died off. Seems christianity must be real and true if its still here.
Who said that there was proof that "God is a lie"? You are merely making the mistake of assuming a book that does not claim to be perfect is perfect. The Bible is filled with flaws and errors. That does not mean that "God lied">
To be fair though the bible does say more people will leave it or fall for fake christians and hence the whole "Go away, I do not know you!" thing. Now whats interesting is if we do see an anti-christ whome the world seems to love. How would you explain this person and his/her popularity? Because most everything in the bible has come true except for like one or two prophicies right before His return. Then we get into prophicies during revelations.
What are you talking about now? The Bible is filled with failed prophecies. It has very very few successful ones.
This is a great post, not sure how I missed it. I have noticed the weird results with things. Such as when you watch science says "We think this thing happened between 35,000,000 to 50,000,000 years ago. Um.... thats a awfuly big "Not sure when" gap. How can we trust since terrible devices that apparently are constantly in accurate.
No really. Perhaps you should be trying to learn how those people know what they know. Wallowing in ignorance will not get you anywhere.
No, once again, that is a myth. Man evolved. The science that you won't let yourself learn tells us that this is so.Well it would be impossible for these religions to be older given the fact God created man and this the first religion is really Judaism.
Well it doesn't really matter what wording someone uses to try and get out of the argument (such as pointing out fallacies for example). Nothing will ever change me and my views. Just as nothing may ever change your views. Hence the normal atheist vs christian stalemate.
Can you give a link or a reference? Can you say what the four different dates for the scroll were?I will accept a radio dating as long as there is no contamination of the sample. I reject all radio dates until the samples are 100% free of contamination. I once saw a radio carbon dating of a dead sea scroll, four tests delivered four different results?
The Piltdown skull yielded a radio-carbon age of about 600 years. Do you think that that age is correct, or is the skull really older or younger?Hello SZ.
I will accept a radio dating as long as there is no contamination of the sample. I reject all radio dates until the samples are 100% free of contamination. I once saw a radio carbon dating of a dead sea scroll, four tests delivered four different results?
The dating of the dead sea scroll is a mere touch over two thousand years ago, a recent sample in the realm of history. How can we trust carbon dating for any sample further back in history?
The Isaiah Scroll, designated 1Qlsa and also known as the Great Isaiah Scroll, is one of the seven Dead Sea Scrolls that were first recovered by Bedouin shepherds in 1947. The scroll is written in Hebrew and contains the entire Book of Isaiah from beginning to end, apart from a few small damaged portions. It is the oldest complete copy of the Book of Isaiah known,[1] being 1100 years older than the Leningrad Codex, and the most complete scroll out of the 220 found at Qumran. Pieces of the Isaiah Scroll have been carbon-14 dated at least four times, giving calibrated date ranges between 356-103 BC; there have also been numerous paleographic and scribal dating studies placing the scroll around 150-100 BC.[2][3] (wikipedia)Can you give a link or a reference? Can you say what the four different dates for the scroll were?
Hello Astrophile.The Piltdown skull yielded a radio-carbon age of about 600 years. Do you think that that age is correct, or is the skull really older or younger?
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