Geocentricity

[ananda]

Are there any other conservatives here that also believe in geocentricity? (That is, the idea that the Earth is at the center of the universe, and that the sun, moon, and stars orbit the fixed Earth)

I believe that Scripture teaches this as fact, and surprisingly, even members of my own tradition are generally conservative yet none in the forums have defended this. Even many prominent world-class scientists have admitted that geocentricity is indeed a valid interpretation of the data; however, "science" as a whole cannot teach geocentricity because they would then have to admit that the Earth is uniquely special in the cosmos, thus leading to the forbidden idea that there must be a Creator. By replacing Earth into a heliocentric universe, it's easier to see things from an atheistic viewpoint and to dismiss Earth as a product of evolution, an alleged "big-bang", and so forth.

I wonder if there are any geocentrists here?

 

[Toynbee]

Are there any other conservatives here that also believe in geocentricity? (That is, the idea that the Earth is at the center of the universe, and that the sun, moon, and stars orbit the fixed Earth)

I believe that Scripture teaches this as fact, and surprisingly, even members of my own tradition are generally conservative yet none in the forums have defended this.

I wonder if there are any geocentrists here?

When you say you believe the Earth is at the center of the universe, are you talking spiritually... or physically? Or something else?

Because I'm pretty certain the notion that the earth is at the center of the physical universe has been debunked scientifically several hundred years ago and pretty much consistently since.

 

[Sketcher]

No. Furthermore, God is big enough to keep watch over us, and interest in us without the Earth being the absolute center of the universe.

 

[Purge187]

No. Furthermore, God is big enough to keep watch over us, and interest in us without the Earth being the absolute center of the universe.

This. The position of the planet doesn't matter; its Creator does.

 

[ananda]

When you say you believe the Earth is at the center of the universe, are you talking spiritually... or physically? Or something else?

Because I'm pretty certain the notion that the earth is at the center of the physical universe has been debunked scientifically several hundred years ago and pretty much consistently since.

Physically, yes, I believe it is at the center of the universe.

And no, this has not been debunked scientifically. The world famous astronomer Sir Fred Hoyle stated: "We know that the difference between a heliocentric theory and a geocentric theory is one of relative motion only, and that such a difference has no physical significance" and "Today we cannot say that the Copernican theory is "right" and the Ptolemaic theory is "wrong" in any meaningful sense.The two theories...are physically equivalent to one another."

Also, astronomer Dr. Bouw stated: "Again, once more for the record: it has been shown at least six different ways this century alone that the equations and physics used by NASA to launch satellites are identical to the equations derived from a geocentric universe.Thus, if the space program is proof of anything, it proves geocentricity and disproves heliocentrism."

 

[ananda]

Fascinating, that there are Christians who deny geocentricity when the Bible teaches that very idea. It seems much like Christians who believe in evolution to me

 

[theophilus40]

Does the Bible actually say anywhere that the earth is the center of the universe?

We don't know enough about the universe to know if it even has a center. There is at least one geometric shape that doesn't have a center: the surface of a sphere. The sphere itself has a center but if you covered the surface with dots which one of them would be the center of the surface?

From our point of view we appear to be in the center but that would be true of an observer in any other part of the universe as well.

 

[Rubiks]

please don't hold to a geocentric belief. Its beliefs like these which completely turn people off from Christianity.

 

[ananda]

Does the Bible actually say anywhere that the earth is the center of the universe?

We don't know enough about the universe to know if it even has a center. There is at least one geometric shape that doesn't have a center: the surface of a sphere. The sphere itself has a center but if you covered the surface with dots which one of them would be the center of the surface?

From our point of view we appear to be in the center but that would be true of an observer in any other part of the universe as well.

"The world also is established that it cannot be moved." 1Ch 16:30 cf Psa 93:1, 96:10

If the world is firmly established, then everything else is in movement and rotating around it.

The alternative heliocentric theory would have me believe that I am standing on an earth that is careening drunkenly around the universe at hundreds of thousands of miles per hour, contrary to what my own senses tell me. I find that harder to believe.

 

[ananda]

please don't hold to a geocentric belief. Its beliefs like these which completely turn people off from Christianity.

To me, that's like saying "please don't hold to a creationist belief - embrace evolution! It's creationist beliefs like these which completely turn people off from Christianity."

Do you deny the verses in Scripture which supports geocentricity?

How do you explain the conclusions of renowned astronomers like Sir Hoyle who stated that scientific data can be interpreted in favor of geocentricity just as much as it can be interpreted for heliocentricity?

 

[miamited]

Hi netzarim,

I do not hold that the the sun and planets of our solar system rotate around the earth. I don't find anything in Scripture that would infer such a truth. Whether or not the earth and our solar system is at the center of the universe is also not made clear in the Scriptures, and knowing it through any other method of 'proof' that we have is not possible either, at this time.

What I know is that God created our universe in whatever way it needed to be created in order that it work perfectly. The stars and other heavenly bodies are in the places that they need to be in order that the harmony of the whole is preserved.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[ananda]

Hi netzarim,

I do not hold that the the sun and planets of our solar system rotate around the earth. I don't find anything in Scripture that would infer such a truth. Whether or not the earth and our solar system is at the center of the universe is also not made clear in the Scriptures, and knowing it through any other method of 'proof' that we have is not possible either, at this time.

What I know is that God created our universe in whatever way it needed to be created in order that it work perfectly. The stars and other heavenly bodies are in the places that they need to be in order that the harmony of the whole is preserved.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

Hello What do you think about this verse: "The world also is established that it cannot be moved." 1Ch 16:30 cf Psa 93:1, 96:10

If the world is firmly established, then everything else is in movement and rotating around it.

The alternative heliocentric theory would have me believe that I am standing on an earth that is careening drunkenly around the universe at hundreds of thousands of miles per hour, contrary to what my own senses tell me. I find that harder to believe.

 

[Albion]

Are there any other conservatives here that also believe in geocentricity? (That is, the idea that the Earth is at the center of the universe, and that the sun, moon, and stars orbit the fixed Earth)

That's not a conservative belief.

 

[ananda]

That's not a conservative belief.

If "conservative" means means possessing a more literal interpretation of Scripture, then I contend that geocentricity is a conservative belief.

Scripture states that the earth is fixed, whereas heliocentrists would have me believe that the earth revolves around the sun. I do not find the latter belief in Scripture, unless you can provide me some references otherwise.

 

[Albion]

If "conservative" means means possessing a more literal interpretation of Scripture, then I contend that geocentricity is a conservative belief.

It doesn't, so we are in agreement about that.

 

[miamited]

Hello What do you think about this verse: "The world also is established that it cannot be moved." 1Ch 16:30 cf Psa 93:1, 96:10

Yes, but we know the earth moves. Even if it doesn't move in it's orbit, which I'm sure it does, it spins. Quite frankly, to deny that is ludicrous, I believe. So, this passage must mean something other than the planet does not have any motion whatsoever. I believe, that what these Scriptures are telling us is that it cannot be moved out of it's appointed place. That place is as the third planet of our solar system. God has appointed that the earth shall never be moved from its place. After all, the Scripture says that it cannot be moved, not that it cannot move.

There is no power in all of heaven or hell, save that of God Himself, that can move the earth from where God has placed it in the heavens.

You then wrote: If the world is firmly established, then everything else is in movement and rotating around it.

I disagree that that's what being firmly established means. The word 'firmly' here is not defined as lack of any kind of movement. It is defined as 'decreed'. God has firmly established the earth in its place. He has decreed that it shall remain exactly where it is in the universe. It will never become a planet of Alpha Centauri. It will never take a place between Neptune and Pluto. It has been firmly established to remain exactly where it is.

The alternative heliocentric theory would have me believe that I am standing on an earth that is careening drunkenly around the universe at hundreds of thousands of miles per hour, contrary to what my own senses tell me. I find that harder to believe.

Sorry, but that is exactly what I believe although it is inflammatory and wicked to say that it 'drunkenly' careens. All of the universe works and moves in perfect harmony as God created it to do. And everything remains firmly established in its place within that dance of perfect order. God is good! And, of course, most any born again believer will tell you that it is a dangerous understanding when we allow our senses to be the foundation of our wisdom of what we believe of the things of God.

You are, of course, free to believe what your senses tell you.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[miamited]

BTW, netzarim,

One of the clues that you are lacking in your understanding of the things of God is your tag that you are a 'non-pauline' messianic. It would seem that you also deny the word of God which tells you that Paul was chosen to be the teacher of the Gentiles.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[ananda]

Yes, but we know the earth moves. Even if it doesn't move in it's orbit, which I'm sure it does, it spins. Quite frankly, to deny that is ludicrous, I believe. So, this passage must mean something other than the planet does not have any motion whatsoever. I believe, that what these Scriptures are telling us is that it cannot be moved out of it's appointed place. That place is as the third planet of our solar system. God has appointed that the earth shall never be moved from its place. After all, the Scripture says that it cannot be moved, not that it cannot move. God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

How do you "know" that the earth moves, that is, spins?

The verse states "The world also is established that it cannot be moved" - period. It does not say "it cannot be moved out of its appointed path".

If the Earth is allegedly spinning at 1,000 mph (as the establishment heliocentrists would have me believe), can I board a helicopter, and just hover until my destination reaches me?

If the Earth is allegedly spinning 1,000 mph west to east, why don't airplane pilots have to make 1,000 mph compensations when flying east to west? Why are their flight calculations (to my knowledge) based on a fixed, unmoving earth? Why is it possible for airplanes to fly west to east? If an average airplane is traveling at 600mph, and it travels eastward, then according to the heliocentric theory, it is actually losing ground westward hour by hour because the earth beneath is traveling 1,000mph eastward (400mph faster than the airplane can travel!)

The alternative heliocentric theory would have me believe that I am standing on an earth that is careening drunkenly around the universe at hundreds of thousands of miles per hour, contrary to what my own senses tell me. I find that harder to believe.

Sorry, but that is exactly what I believe although it is inflammatory and wicked to say that it 'drunkenly' careens. All of the universe works and moves in perfect harmony as God created it to do.

The heliocentric theory would have me believe that the earth is spinning at 1,000 mph around its axis, 65,000+ mph around the sun, and hundreds of thousands of miles per hour around the center of the galaxy, and millions of miles per hour around the vast expanse of the universe in our galactic plane. So, yes, all these movements put into play together I would consider to be a "drunken careening" around the universe. Yet my eyes shows me that day after day, night after night, the constellations rises, rotates, and sets in the same place, paths, & order, contrary to the theoretical careening paths the establishment's heliocentric theory would propose.

 

[ananda]

BTW, netzarim,

One of the clues that you are lacking in your understanding of the things of God is your tag that you are a 'non-pauline' messianic. It would seem that you also deny the word of God which tells you that Paul was chosen to be the teacher of the Gentiles.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

Ad-hominem attacks & red herrings, really?

I do not deny the first-hand eyewitness account of the Apostle Matthew when he recorded the Word of Messiah which stated that His eleven apostles were His messengers to the Gentiles, and that the message of trust and obedience to be given to the Gentiles were the same exact message He taught them (cf Mt 28:16-20).

 

[Sketcher]

If "conservative" means means possessing a more literal interpretation of Scripture, then I contend that geocentricity is a conservative belief.

More literal doesn't always mean more correct. I respect the genres in which Scripture was written. I do not believe that Solomon's bride literally had a flock of goats running down her head, and I do not believe that the Earth literally stays in one place.