Genesis 3:15

[sojournerI]

Genesis: 3:15; And I will put enmity between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise HIs heel."

Going to the Strongs Concordance of the Bible, the word
" seed " used in this Bible passage 3: 15 says in the orginal hebrew: 2233, zera' " carnally, child, fruitful, seed ( -time), sowing-time. "

To say that the seed of the serpent's seed is NOT
of a sexual nature and is only of a spiritual nature
is saying something that the Bible does not say.

Also regarding the entire Garden of Eden scene:
Since snakes or serpents do not talk and fruit does
not make one wise, it is a safe bet to beleive that
the serpent is symbolic of someone else and the
fruit is symbolic of something else.
And " seed " in this verse ( above ) speaks of children.

I'd like to hear from those that AGREE with me.

 

[AngCath]

you're hitting on (indirectly) on the role of myth in the Old Testament.

 

[sojournerI]

you're hitting on (indirectly) on the role of myth in the Old Testament.

Kindly explain what you mean.

 

[AngCath]

Well, something that most people don't realize is that we belong to the only society in the history of the world that has merged "fact" and "truth" whereas the Hebrews and other cultures did not. So, for example, when we read stories like that of Jonah an Israelite did not concern him/herself to whether it was a factual historical event because that was irrelevant to teaching Truth, in this case God's relationship with Gentiles among other things. So in Genesis 3, we need to distinguish between what was meant to be fact and what is the Truth being conveyed.

 

[sojournerI]

Well, something that most people don't realize is that we belong to the only society in the history of the world that has merged "fact" and "truth" whereas the Hebrews and other cultures did not. So, for example, when we read stories like that of Jonah an Israelite did not concern him/herself to whether it was a factual historical event because that was irrelevant to teaching Truth, in this case God's relationship with Gentiles among other things. So in Genesis 3, we need to distinguish between what was meant to be fact and what is the Truth being conveyed.

Still- what are you trying to say ?
If you're trying to say that parts of the Bible are myth, then I disagree adamently.
Perhaps Jonah was not swallowed by a literal big fish but then again; maybe he was.
Read the last chapter of Job, if you can answer God, then you do know all the answers.

 

[TrevorL]

Howdy sojournerI,

Greetings.

Genesis: 3:15; And I will put enmity between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise HIs heel."

"Also regarding the entire Garden of Eden scene:
Since snakes or serpents do not talk and fruit does
not make one wise, it is a safe bet to beleive that
the serpent is symbolic of someone else and the
fruit is symbolic of something else.
And " seed " in this verse ( above ) speaks of children."

I'd like to hear from those that AGREE with me.

Even though you do not want to hear from me as I do not wholly agree. My view is that the serpent was literal and was discerning, wise, subtil and could speak. The tree did impart the knowledge of good and evil, and they were excluded so that could not eat the tree of life and live for ever. Thus these things were literal, but undoubtedly Genesis 3:15 then speaks of the two seeds, the seed of the woman representing Christ and the faithful, the seed of the serpent representing the world.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[AngCath]

i don't think you understand what myth means. it isn't just zeus and hermes.
also, I think you are just as guilty as I am in regards to standing before God as Job.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The material creation, including a talking snake, is a transitionary vehicle, necessary for the completion of God's plan of the restitution of all things. Every material object was fashioned for a spiritual purpose.

I mention on another thread that God ran the one who became Jesus Christ through the human experience in order to make him his bonafide son. Angels were called 'sons' only in retrospect. Jesus was the product of the physical and spiritual loins of his father, God.

 

[sojournerI]

Howdy sojournerI,

Greetings. Even though you do not want to hear from me as I do not wholly agree. My view is that the serpent was literal and was discerning, wise, subtil and could speak. The tree did impart the knowledge of good and evil, and they were excluded so that could not eat the tree of life and live for ever. Thus these things were literal, but undoubtedly Genesis 3:15 then speaks of the two seeds, the seed of the woman representing Christ and the faithful, the seed of the serpent representing the world.

Kind regards
Trevor

You quoted Genesis incorrectly; Genesis 22-24;
AND I QUOTE: Gen; 24- " So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden,
and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life." The way to the tree of life was the only stated exclusion.
I need proof, call it documentation, that the seed of the serpent represents " the world ".
Proof/documentation/ chapter and verse or chapters and verses to support your claim that the serpent
and the fruit was literal- and what literal fruit was it again?

 

[sojournerI]

Howdy sojournerI,

Greetings. Even though you do not want to hear from me as I do not wholly agree. My view is that the serpent was literal and was discerning, wise, subtil and could speak. The tree did impart the knowledge of good and evil, and they were excluded so that could not eat the tree of life and live for ever. Thus these things were literal, but undoubtedly Genesis 3:15 then speaks of the two seeds, the seed of the woman representing Christ and the faithful, the seed of the serpent representing the world.

Kind regards
Trevor

Also when you say these things are literal, of course
they actually happened, but the serpent represented
or was the devil or satan.
The fruit was literal in the sense it was a fruit of disobedience, but it was not a literal fruit as we eat today. The word " eat" used in this passage means to
consume or devour as one of its meanings in hebrew.

The material creation, including a talking snake, is a transitionary vehicle, necessary for the completion of God's plan of the restitution of all things. Every material object was fashioned for a spiritual purpose.

I mention on another thread that God ran the one who became Jesus Christ through the human experience in order to make him his bonafide son. Angels were called 'sons' only in retrospect. Jesus was the product of the physical and spiritual loins of his father, God.

Jesus was born of a virgin-Mary, and God, thus being of human origin as well as God.
Your statement can be read two different ways;
reread it and clarify what you mean.

 

[sojournerI]

i don't think you understand what myth means. it isn't just zeus and hermes.
also, I think you are just as guilty as I am in regards to standing before God as Job.

It was your arrogant way you stated that what I wrote
was a "myth".
Perhaps, what you believe, whatever it is, is a myth.
And-Of course, no one is justified outside of Christ.

 

[TrevorL]

Howdy sojournerI,

Greetings again.

You quoted Genesis incorrectly; Genesis 22-24;
AND I QUOTE: Gen; 24- " So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden,
and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life." The way to the tree of life was the only stated exclusion.

I was trying to say they were excluded from the garden so that they could not presumptuously grasp at the tree of life. Partaking of the tree of life became an object of hope, and this is now incorporated in Jesus, the Prince of Life Acts 3:15, Revelation 2:7. To guard or keep the way to the tree of life is not really exclusion from it, but preserving the way so that man would not be presumptuous. Abel who listened to the counsel of God and had respect for the cherubim will partake of the tree of life, in other words he will be given everlasting life at the resurrection when Christ returns.

I need proof, call it documentation, that the seed of the serpent represents " the world ".

I use "world" in the same sense as Jesus in John ch.3 & 17. In John 3 it includes all mankind, but when a person believes he comes out of the world and becomes a disciple, a part of the seed of the woman. In John 17 "the world" has a more specific application, as Jesus distinguishes between the disciples and the world, and the world here represents those who did not believe the words of Jesus and then they opposed and rejected him - this is the enmity between the two seeds.
John 3:16 (KJV): "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life "
John 17:14 (KJV): "I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world."

Psalm 8 uses ideas from the creation and Psalm 8:2 is a brief allusion to the two seeds of Genesis 3:15. Jesus quotes or alludes to Psalm 8:2 in a number of places, eg the enmity displayed by the chief priests against Jesus and his healing works and the children of faith who praised the Son of David, calling upon him to save:
Psalm 8:2 (KJV): "Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger."
Matthew 21:15-16 (KJV): "15 And when the chief priests and scribes saw the wonderful things that he did, and the children crying in the temple, and saying, Hosanna to the Son of David; they were sore displeased, 16 And said unto him, Hearest thou what these say? And Jesus saith unto them, Yea; have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise?"
The picture given in Genesis 3:15 is true to life as one of my Aussie friends could testify. He was bitten and bruised on the foot by a red-bellied black snake, but as they are mildly venomous he did not die. Also the snake got away and he did not have the chance to bruise it on the head. I also disturbed a small brown coloured snake while gardening this morning, and the antipathy was there, and I gave the snake the benefit of the doubt that it could be venomous and did not get close. But the reality of snake bites was impressed on Israel in the wilderness and many died until Moses taught them to look in faith to the brasen serpent. This prefigured the death and resurrection of Jesus, when he came in the same nature as man that usually bites and destroys, and he was crucified and slain by the seed of the serpent.
John 3:14-15 (KJV): "14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life."
Acts 2:22-24 (KJV): "22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it."

Proof/documentation/ chapter and verse or chapters and verses to support your claim that the serpent
and the fruit was literal- and what literal fruit was it again?

Genesis 3 is written as a simple narrative of what happened, and my impression is that it is simply literal. The terms are true to reality revealing the response of Adam and Eve in their shame, nakedness, fear and blaming each other. The onus of proof rests upon you if you do not take this narrative as literal. For instance it says:
Genesis 3:1 (KJV): " ... the serpent .... said unto the woman"
My reading of this is that it says that the serpent was there, and the serpent spoke, and the serpent spoke to the woman. Do you deny any or all of these, and what alternative can you prove?

Concerning the fruit, God can impart whatever qualities that he likes to a fruit, whether knowledge of good and evil, or everlasting life, in a similar way as he can multiply loaves and fish, give sight to the blind, heal the lame so that they can leap like an hart and raise the dead. Adam and Eve were created with a certain amount of knowledge and character and God could add to or affect this if he chose by whatever means he chose.

Also when you say these things are literal, of course
they actually happened, but the serpent represented
or was the devil or satan.
The fruit was literal in the sense it was a fruit of disobedience, but it was not a literal fruit as we eat today. The word " eat" used in this passage means to
consume or devour as one of its meanings in hebrew.

The terms of Genesis 3:1 indicate that the serpent was a literal creature that God had created in Eden and had imparted a discerning ability together with the power of speech to convey its thoughts. The serpent was placed there to test and educate Adam and Eve, but they failed in sin. I do not believe in a supernatural devil, but the serpent and his "seed" does prefigure the OT "satan" and the NT "devil" in its various manifestations. A definition of these words and examination of their usage in every context helps.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Also when you say these things are literal, of course
they actually happened, but the serpent represented
or was the devil or satan.
The fruit was literal in the sense it was a fruit of disobedience, but it was not a literal fruit as we eat today. The word " eat" used in this passage means to
consume or devour as one of its meanings in hebrew.



Jesus was born of a virgin-Mary, and God, thus being of human origin as well as God.
Your statement can be read two different ways;
reread it and clarify what you mean.

I referred only to the fathership of God, i.e. "my only begotten son." Of course Mary was his human mother, and was both a type of Israel, out of whom he was born, and of the church, who he would care for. It is curious that Jesus commissioned John, not Peter, to care for his mother (the church) after his death. Hmmmmmmmmm?

 

[A Brother In Christ]

Genesis: 3:15; And I will put enmity between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise HIs heel."

The Seed is THEE Christ according to Galations 3:16,29

the bruiseing of His heal is in revelations 19:13,15

Going to the Strongs Concordance of the Bible, the word
" seed " used in this Bible passage 3: 15 says in the orginal hebrew: 2233, zera' " carnally, child, fruitful, seed ( -time), sowing-time. "

To say that the seed of the serpent's seed is NOT
of a sexual nature and is only of a spiritual nature
is saying something that the Bible does not say.

could very well be 1 john 3:10 ...children of God and children of the devil

Also regarding the entire Garden of Eden scene:
Since snakes or serpents do not talk and fruit does
not make one wise,

they use to talk before sin just as the snake flew like a bird he was cursed to the ground which is its curse

it is a safe bet to beleive that
the serpent is symbolic of someone else and the
fruit is symbolic of something else.

it was a snake with satan hiding behind it....rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil and Satan, which decieveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

And " seed " in this verse ( above ) speaks of children.

I'd like to hear from those that AGREE with me.

scripture explains everthing we need to know

 

[sojournerI]

The Seed is THEE Christ according to Galations 3:16,29

the bruiseing of His heal is in revelations 19:13,15
could very well be 1 john 3:10 ...children of God and children of the devil they use to talk before sin just as the snake flew like a bird he was cursed to the ground which is its curse it was a snake with satan hiding behind it....rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil and Satan, which decieveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

scripture explains everthing we need to know

Brother in Christ,

Then we're not too far off from each other-what are you doing on this board ( just kiddin' )
However the serpent is satan not a beast of the field; which is a bad translation. Beast should be "-living creature " ( check out hebrew meaning )
The sepent is ( definition ) " glistening one"
more subtle--wiser then the other living creatures
Where does it say snakes can fly? ( don't we have
enough trouble with snakes w/o them flying? just
kiddin' again )
When Eve said we are not to touch the tree of knowledge, look up the word touch in your hebrew dictionary-it means to lie with a woman.
The Bible takes a lot of studing and a couple verses on Sunday doesn't cut it.
Agree, Brother?

 

[A Brother In Christ]

what ? confusing post?

 

[sojournerI]

You said: that the Seed was Christ; I agree.
I say : the seed of the serpent is the devil's seed; resulting in Cain
Christ will crush the serpent's head and the serpent will
bruise Christ's feet.
You said: you agreed with me that the devil has offspring.
You said: the serpent was a snake and flew before the
fall.
I say: The serpent was the devil; serpent means glistening one and the serpent was more subtle then all the beasts or living creatures.
You said, in essence, that a English translation is all you need to understand the word of God.
I say: I need to fully understand what the word of God says and if that means studing the translations and what the words are telling me then that's what I need.

 

[A Brother In Christ]

ok

 

[seanHayden]

Torah (The Margolin Edition)

Gen 3:15

And I will place animosity between you and the woman, and between your descendants and her descendents. He will crush you [on] the head, and you will hiss [to bite] him [on] the heel.

 

[sojournerI]

Torah (The Margolin Edition)

Gen 3:15

And I will place animosity between you and the woman, and between your descendants and her descendents. He will crush you [on] the head, and you will hiss [to bite] him [on] the heel.

The Companion Bible
Authorized Version of 1611
Notes and appendixes by E. W. Bullinger
Gen. 3:15
" And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her Seed: It shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise HIs heel."

Notes by Bullinger,
"..They denote the temporary sufferings of the Seed,
and the complete destruction of satan and his works ( Heb 214, 1 John 3, 8)

Serpent-hebrew, Nachash, a shining one