Generational curses? No way!!

Jim B · Jan 23, 2004

Svt4Him wrote

Sure it could be, but now it seems you are calling things perfectly natural that aren't natural.

Hmmm!! Could be. And maybe you are calling things that supernatural that arent supernatural. Could work either way, I guess.

~Jim

Svt4Him · Jan 23, 2004

Jim B said:
Svt4Him wrote

Hmmm!! Could be. And maybe you are calling things that supernatural that arent supernatural. Could work either way, I guess.

~Jim

True.

Now let me draw your attention to something:

Charismatic Movement Forum Rules

1) This forum is open to all Christians. Non-Christian members are not allowed to post here.

2) Charismatic Christian members from all denominations can post fellowship threads here as well as debate threads to discuss various doctrines to do with their own denomination and other denominations (including the Catholic church), as long as they are within our rules.

3) Non-Charismatic members can only post fellowship posts here or posts to ask a question regarding Charismatic or Pentecostal doctrine. Once the question is answered, there shall be no debate over the answer in this forum by the Non-Charismatic. Any debate posts by Non-Charismatics will be deleted or moved to the Interdenominational Doctrine Debate forum. In other words, only Charismatic members can debate here.

As you already mentioned, you left the Charismatic circle because we're pro-stupidity. Why are you debating here then?

Jim B · Jan 23, 2004

As you already mentioned, you left the Charismatic circle because we're pro-stupidity. Why are you debating here then?

I don't think I ever used, or would ever use, the term "pro-stupid." I used the term "anti-intellectual" and was careful to say that that was a perception from my nearly 40 years of involvement with the movement. It is a general perception and there are many exceptions to the rule, as I have said. I would like to dialog with P/Cs over this issue, but obviously this is not the forum to do so. I would hope that, as brothers and sisters in Christ, we would all lay down our defenses and seek better understanding with each other.

Dont get me wrong, P/Cs are not the only ones guilty of this. Evangelicals (including myself) can be just as narrow in their views of P/Cs as we feel P/Cs are to us. This wall has two sides to it. Dialog and not debate (which encourages doubtful disputation), I believe, is the answer.

~Jim

SpiritPsalmist · Jan 23, 2004

*MOD HAT ON*

OK FOLKS. . .LET'S CALM DOWN. LET'S GIVE EACH OTHER THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT AND THEN MOVE ON. I don't believe there is as much anti-Charasmatic sentiment here as just questioning percieved Charasmatic views from someone who does go to a church that does fall somewhere in the same labeling as other churches considered Charasmatics. HOWEVER, IF THE ATTACTS ON THE CHARASMATIC BELIEFS AND THE DISRUPTION OF THE PEACE IN THIS FORUM CONTINUES IT WILL BE HANDLED ACCORDING TO THE RULES.

[notroll]

LET'S KEEP THE PEACE OF THE FORUM. Thank you.

*MOD HAT OFF

Svt4Him · Jan 23, 2004

Jim B said:
I don't think I ever used, or would ever use, the term "pro-stupid." I used the term "anti-intellectual" and was careful to say that that was a perception from my nearly 40 years of involvement with the movement. It is a general perception and there are many exceptions to the rule, as I have said. I would like to dialog with P/Cs over this issue, but obviously this is not the forum to do so. I would hope that, as brothers and sisters in Christ, we would all lay down our defenses and seek better understanding with each other.

Dont get me wrong, P/Cs are not the only ones guilty of this. Evangelicals (including myself) can be just as narrow in their views of P/Cs as we feel P/Cs are to us. This wall has two sides to it. Dialog and not debate (which encourages doubtful disputation), I believe, is the answer.

~Jim

That is true, but then you need to soften your approach. Iron does sharpen iron, but only if used proper. Take a piece of it and smash another, neither benefit. And to say truth offends, that may be. But not all offenses are truth.

Again, my issue is there was no issue. If the issue is people are really like sheep, that may be, and I can give you examples of it. But when you say 'this group is not up to my intellectual standard of smart people' even though no group is, then you get into a directed opinion, and everyone in that group gets defensive, and rightly so.

Jim B · Jan 23, 2004

Svt4Him wrote:

But when you say 'this group is not up to my intellectual standard of smart people' even though no group is, then you get into a directed opinion, and everyone in that group gets defensive, and rightly so.

But, S., I never said that!! And if I did you would have a right to be upset. That would be arrogant on my part.

FYI my personal "intellectual standard" is sub-par ... I'm not all that smart!! ... but I am trying to learn from every source I can. There's a lot of God-given wisdom out there and I would like to see us avail ourselves of the teachers (both P/C and non-P/C) Christ has set in His body.

~Jim

SpiritPsalmist · Jan 23, 2004

pmarquette · Jan 23, 2004

Generational curses .....
children of drug addicts , alcoholics , smokers ,the enslaved , abused , molested ,
a " curse of the parents , a familiar spirit of family , if not broken , a generational curse "

Theophilus7 · Jan 25, 2004

Hi JimB,

As to generational curses, I reserve my judgement for now. However, something similar to a generational curse can occur through the following mechanism observed by Dr. William DeArteaga in his thesis, Quenching the Spirit. He notes how a son or daughter who makes a bitter judgement of his parent(s) alcoholism, sinning and dishonouring his parent(s), is very likely to marry someone with a similar problem. This chain of "bitter-root judgements" continues to perpetuate the problem throughout the family's generations until it is broken by the blood of Jesus. This is related to the Rabbinic "*** for tat" concept which describes a part of the "this-earthly" manifestation of God's moral government of the universe.

Food for thought.

Jim B · Jan 25, 2004

Hey T7!! You wrote ...

As to generational curses, I reserve my judgement for now.

While I do not believe in generational curses, I am also reserving judgment. If there is such a thing, I would like someone on this forum to prove it to me from scripture, preferably New Testament scripture. I really cannot accept personal testimonies, anecdotes, or examples, for obvious reasons. If there are generational curses the Bible would clearly tell us so. I do have my biblical reasons for NOT accepting the teaching and have spelled them out in previous posts in this thread and am still waiting for someone to prove me wrong from scripture.

Maybe I am put off by the idea of humans placing curses on other humans. This to me sounds like voodoo and magic (superstition) and in my mind I see witchdoctors placing hexes on people. If there is such a thing, I would like to know where it is taught in the Bible.

Honestly, I am open to being taught. I just needs some chapters and verses.

Jim

Anthony · Jan 25, 2004

Why do sins seem to repeat? There are no unique sins, we all share some of the same sins with each other. Is it any wonder then that within families we would also share similar sins.

Look at racism, that is a teaching past down from generation to generation. And how is it broken, with knowledge, and God's soften of your heart to accept the logic of that knowledge.

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge.

We all suffer the same weakness as Adam and Eve, it's due to the fall. Until you talk and share your problems, fears, concerns, sins, you don't realize how much the same we all are.

We all have the same sins, sin cross all boundaries, families, and generations. And each generation keeps on repeating them, because there are no new sins, just variations of the same old ones. We're all looking for someone to blame our problems on, and now are sins.

Also over the years Gods has unvieled the mechanics, nature, and blueprints of his creation. How our bodies are constructed, and how they have failed us. Man thinks medical discoveries are his, but they are only easter eggs which God has planted for man to one day find. The generational disease are part of God's creation of man's biology. Let face it everything man has learn about how the human body works are simply a deeper view and understanding of HIS creation.

We all want answers, but all God chose to give us was wisdom instead.

crystalpc · Jan 25, 2004

Jim B said:
sweetkitty wrote:

Could this be just a way of spiritualizing or adding a P/C spin to something that is perfectly natural? Of course there are things we inherit from our parents through our genes and there are behavioral traits instilled in us from our upbringing. But these are not necessarily curses in the biblical sense (even though we feel we might be cursed by them! )

~Jim

I don't agree with generational curses at all. Too many new testament scriptures teach against it. The one thing I knew almost from the beginning of my salvation, that I had been reborn, a new creation that never existed before in Christ Jesus. As a new creation born into the family of God there is no curse in my generation. Who could I have inherited it from? God has no curses on him.

Ecclesiastes · Jan 27, 2004

Well, Christ did redeem us from the curse of the law. BUt some people still operate in the Curse by choice or by ignorance. AN example of a generational curse: Breast Cancer. It is traced back through families with grandmothers, aunts, and etc. This is a demonic curse. But we are redeemed from the curse of the law. So how do we break this chain? By the power of Jesus and what he told us to do. We need to realize and state over our lives and say "Christ has redeemed us from the Curse of the law, therefore I am free from this _______"(Insert whatever the curse maybe.)

Some generational curses start from sin. Let's look at these verses.

Ex 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Ex 34:7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

Because of their sin (Iniquity) a curse came upon their families. It was cause and effect, sin brings the curse. Well what is curse simply defined? THE EMPOWERMENT TO FAIL. No matter what area the "curse" is in. But yes we are redeemed fromt eh curse of the law. But as I said earlier some people continue in the generational curse because of ignorance and some continue in it because of fear. Fear is a powerful enemy that would bring the curse upon people.

Other examples of generational curses: alcoholism, divorce, certain sicknesses, early death. (There are tons more.)

I would be glad to post more if necessary.

Stay Blessed.
ECC

Jim B · Jan 27, 2004

Ecclesiastes wrote:

AN example of a generational curse: Breast Cancer. It is traced back through families with grandmothers, aunts, and etc. This is a demonic curse.

Or could this simply be genetic? Sometimes, because it is easier to explain things we may not understand, we simply label things as demonic or curses. Genetics is the cause of a lot of things from the color of your eyes to left-handedness to some diseases from high blood pressure to breast cancer to alcoholism. Its in the DNA, not in a generation curse.

Although many Old Testament verses have been interpreted (or, as I believe, misinterpreted) to support a theory of generational curses, I have yet to be shown on this thread a single New Testament scripture that does so.

The OT scripture that best refutes generation curses is (I repeat) Jeremiah 31.29 "In those days people will no longer say, 'The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge.' 30 Instead, everyone will die for his own sin; whoever eats sour grapes-his own teeth will be set on edge. 31 "The time is coming," declares the LORD , "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. 32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers.

Blessings,
Jim

Trish1947 · Jan 27, 2004

Generational curses huh?, Yeah, I see them all the time for the last 50 years in my own family.. Altzheimers.

And I dont plan on being a part of that generation. My dad and my mother, and my grandmother.. It makes me mad as all get out!!

My dad and mom we're raised a Baptist, and my grandmother was raised Church of Christ. I was a Chrismatic.. I would sit there and listen to them speak," I'm going to be just like my mother, I'm going to have this disease,because my relitives have it." I used to really jump them spiritually about confessing this, Instead of cofessing what Jesus said about such things. "I have not given you a spirit of fear, but of power, love, AND A SOUND MIND!!! I confess this for myself completely.. I will not have this!!! Not when My God paid for it, and set me free.

But my parents didn't ever see this for themselves. They would make comments like, well you have to die with something.. So now I visit them daily, totally mindless, in a care facility.. It breaks my heart!!

Jesus bore all our sickness and diseases. If it wasnt for him doing that for us, we would all suffer with a generational curse of some sort. It all started with Adam.

crystalpc · Jan 27, 2004

Ecclesiastes said:
Well, Christ did redeem us from the curse of the law. BUt some people still operate in the Curse by choice or by ignorance. AN example of a generational curse: Breast Cancer. It is traced back through families with grandmothers, aunts, and etc.
Other examples of generational curses: alcoholism, divorce, certain sicknesses, early death. (There are tons more.)

I would be glad to post more if necessary.

Stay Blessed.
ECC

I am sorry that I didn't quote the full text.
I don't agree with generational curses of alcholism, divorce, for sure. Or the curses of the law falling on children of grace.
If alcholism was a curse then it was my parents curse, not my grandparents who did not drink. Both parents were divorced and remarried several times, however my grandparents on either side weren't.
No I don't agree that alcohol or divorce is a curse passed down.
As far as genetics, I and my brother both were diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. I am healed of it. We have genetically high cholestrol among the siblings, yet neither of my parents died or suffered from cholestrol blockages.
My ggrandparents lived into their late 80s one at 98. My grandparents lived into their mid 80s my dad lived into his mid 80s, my mother died at 69 of lung cancer.

crystalpc · Jan 27, 2004

I agree Trish. I confess the same verse, I believe people speak things on themselves. I have a family member that I would never confess when I felt bad, because she is morbid and ready to dig graves with her tongue. I have told her over and over she can have what she says, and she sets there and says things she doesn't have, but enjoys talking about.. I can't figure out why she enjoys being so morbid.

Trish1947 · Jan 27, 2004

crystalpcI agree Trish. I confess the same verse, I believe people speak things on themselves. I have a family member that I would never confess when I felt bad, because she is morbid and ready to dig graves with her tongue. I have told her over and over she can have what she says, and she sets there and says things she doesn't have, but enjoys talking about.. I can't figure out why she enjoys being so morbid.

The scripture that says you can have what you say. People want to put you down for believing in this, but the same is true for bad things, You can speak blessing or cursing. I have a friend that all she wants to do is talk about her illness all the time. She dont want relief, she wants sympathy, because when I tell her to say what Jesus says, she just gives me that blank stare, like, "OH, no, I have your attention when I'm ill. She's really not that ill. but she manages to stay that way, by her own mouth.

Jim B · Jan 27, 2004

Trish wrote:

The scripture that says you can have what you say.

Trish,

Can you help us out and tell us just where in the Bible it says this? If oten here this said by my WOF friends, but have yet to be shown it in the scripture.

Jim

Trish1947 · Jan 27, 2004

Mar 11:23http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mar/Mar011.html#23http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mar/Mar011.html#23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall SAY unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he SAYETH shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he SAYETH.

Notice its not what you think, or hope, or dream, its whatsoever you sayeth. Got mountains in your life? Then start saying what Jesus said you can do. He wants you to be vocal about His word and promises.

All though most of our desires start in a hope, a dream, but it never gets past our lips. If its a promise in the scriptures, then you as a child of God, have been given by Jesus, the right to speak it in faith.

Jam 3:10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. So If our hearts are full of His promises about healing, blessings, promises, then thats what we need to confess with our mouths.

Even Jesus said, Why can't you speak GOOD THINGS..

Out of your own mouth will I judge you..

He's waiting to hear something good.

Generational curses? No way!!

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