General Call or Free Offer?

JM · Apr 24, 2011

Just wondering what you good folks thought about the general call or the well meant offer of the Gospel.

General Call of the Gospel, "Moreover, it is the promise of the gospel that whoever believes in Christ crucified shall not perish but have eternal life. This promise, together with the command to repent and believe, ought to be announced and declared without differentiation or discrimination to all nations and people, to whom God in his good pleasure sends the gospel" (II.5) Canons of Dort

Free Offer or Well Meant Offer of the Gospel, "God not only delights in the penitent but is also moved by the riches of his goodness and mercy to desire the repentance and salvation of the impenitent and reprobate." Orthodox Presbyterian Church statement

Osage Bluestem · Apr 24, 2011

I voted general call. When you hear the gospel you hear the truth that whoever believes and repents is saved.

The call to repent is actually a command to repent to all men.

Hammster · Apr 25, 2011

Not sure what the difference is.

JM · Apr 25, 2011

The general call of the Gospel is the command to all to repent. The other teaches that God truly desires to save the lost and really offers them salvation in the preaching of the Gospel, it's a well meant offer.

Hammster · Apr 25, 2011

JM said:
The general call of the Gospel is the command to all to repent. The other teaches that God truly desires to save the lost and really offers them salvation in the preaching of the Gospel, it's a well meant offer.

Got it. Thanks. I went with general call.

ReformedChapin · Apr 25, 2011

JM said:
Just wondering what you good folks thought about the general call or the well meant offer of the Gospel.

General Call of the Gospel, "Moreover, it is the promise of the gospel that whoever believes in Christ crucified shall not perish but have eternal life. This promise, together with the command to repent and believe, ought to be announced and declared without differentiation or discrimination to all nations and people, to whom God in his good pleasure sends the gospel" (II.5) Canons of Dort

Free Offer or Well Meant Offer of the Gospel, "God not only delights in the penitent but is also moved by the riches of his goodness and mercy to desire the repentance and salvation of the impenitent and reprobate." Orthodox Presbyterian Church statement

I don't understand why the OPC could make a different statement considering usually the creeds held in the church are the westminster standards and the three forms of unity.

Based on what I have read I don't think there is a difference.

"(b) Does God desire the salvation of the reprobate, or is it the salvation of sinners as sinners which Scripture represents to be the object of the Divine approbation and complacency? Surely it is the latter. Nowhere in the invitations, exhortations, commands, expostulations or offers in Scripture are the reprobate singled out and made the objects of special Divine concern. Sinners without distinction or discrimination are invited in the external call of the Word."

RisingSpirit · Apr 25, 2011

None of the above:
General Call isn't free offer. Effectual call isn't free offer. The elects are effectually called. They were predestined so it isn't free offer since free and Elects don't mix.

The devil like to mix.

student ad x · Apr 25, 2011

RisingSpirit said:
None of the above:
General Call isn't free offer. Effectual call isn't free offer. The elects are effectually called. They were predestined so it isn't free offer since free and Elects don't mix.

The devil like to mix.

RisingSpirit · Apr 25, 2011

student ad x said:

The general call is just the Bible calling or telling or sharing to everyone including the atheists and the goats or tares. The effectual call are the Elects being called. The general call is simply reading, "Thou shall be a good boy and may enter Heaven." Anyone can read that like a fiction. General and effectual are the same on the Elect's end. General call on the non-elect's end are just what others read that is written like reading a Mark Twain novel. What they read doesn't effect the unbelievers due to not receiving the gift of faith as predestined by God according to His own pleasure, not ours, but Christians are instructed to proclaim the Gospel to all even to the non elects. Just reading the General call doesn't make the free gift of faith available to all mankind or available to the unbelievers. The gift isn't available to every man on Earth but only the chosen.

This is what the Bible said.

student ad x · Apr 25, 2011

RisingSpirit said:
The general call is just the Bible calling or telling or sharing to everyone including the atheists and the goats or tares. The effectual call are the Elects being called. The general call is simply reading, "Thou shall be a good boy and may enter Heaven." Anyone can read that like a fiction. General and effectual are the same on the Elect's end. General call on the non-elect's end are just what others read that is written like reading a Mark Twain novel. What they read doesn't effect the unbelievers due to not receiving the gift of faith as predestined by God according to His own pleasure, not ours, but Christians are instructed to proclaim the Gospel to all even to the non elects. Just reading the General call doesn't make the free gift of faith available to all mankind or available to the unbelievers. The gift isn't available to every man on Earth but only the chosen.

This is what the Bible said.

Thanks

JM said:
Just wondering what you good folks thought about the general call or the well meant offer of the Gospel.

General Call of the Gospel, "Moreover, it is the promise of the gospel that whoever believes in Christ crucified shall not perish but have eternal life. This promise, together with the command to repent and believe, ought to be announced and declared without differentiation or discrimination to all nations and people, to whom God in his good pleasure sends the gospel" (II.5) Canons of Dort

Free Offer or Well Meant Offer of the Gospel, "God not only delights in the penitent but is also moved by the riches of his goodness and mercy to desire the repentance and salvation of the impenitent and reprobate." Orthodox Presbyterian Church statement

Dordt, general call of the gospel.

cygnusx1 · Apr 25, 2011

General Call , Gospel Invitation , Gospel Offer , "welcome" , proffer , command .

I go for all these .

There is something "on the table" before men , the truth can set a man , any man free .

I have about 5 or 6 books on this subject both for and against , I don't accept the anti Gospel Offer view at all.

JM · Apr 25, 2011

...you believe God suffers from unfulfilled and frustrated desires?

cygnusx1 · Apr 25, 2011

JM said:
...you believe God suffers from unfulfilled and frustrated desires?

"How often would I , but you would not" even given Gills excellent exegesis , the Jews didn't do what Christ as God wanted them to .

Desires of God can only be "frustrated " if God wills it .

JM · Apr 25, 2011

cygnusx1 said:
"How often would I , but you would not" even given Gills excellent exegesis , the Jews didn't do what Christ as God wanted them to .

You need to unpack this a little further so we can have a look. If it's the passage I'm thinking of, and I'm pretty sure it is, it doesn't apply.

Desires of God can only be "frustrated " if God wills it .

cygnusx1 · Apr 25, 2011

JM said:
You need to unpack this a little further so we can have a look. If it's the passage I'm thinking of, and I'm pretty sure it is, it doesn't apply.

the Jews were reprimanded by Christ because for many years Christ sort to be their King having their children under His "wings" and the Jewish leaders opposed this , was Christs desire fulfilled here ? no , and the aweful punishment for this sin of the Jewish people was seen and spoken of by Christ several times even with tears .

there are scores of places throughout the OT that speak of Gods desire being frustrated , not Gods decree (impossible)

please keep in mind it is Gods desire for what OTHERS should do not what HE will do that is in view , Gods desire for what HE WILL do is never frustrated

If Only ye would have

I called but you rejected

I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked

I set before you life and death , choose life

all day long I held out my arms to a disobedient and gainsaying people

One of my fav sites freeoffercalvinists

JM · Apr 25, 2011

the Jews were reprimanded by Christ because for many years Christ sort to be their King having their children under His "wings" and the Jewish leaders opposed this , was Christs desire fulfilled here ? no , and the aweful punishment for this sin of the Jewish people was seen and spoken of by Christ several times even with tears .

Click to expand...

Christ was not offering salvation to the religious leaders in this context, he was gathering believers, His people. They were physically prevented from coming to God incarnate, salvation is not in sight here, and this is a common proof text used by Arminians. There was nothing, NOTHING being offered.

there are scores of places throughout the OT that speak of Gods desire being frustrated , not Gods decree (impossible)

Click to expand...

God is not frustrated in saving His people cyg and that is what we are discussing in this thread. You are sounding very Arminian here, tread lightly, you are discarding what you claim to affirm by doing so.

please keep in mind it is Gods desire for what OTHERS should do not what HE will do that is in view , Gods desire for what HE WILL do is never frustrated

Click to expand...

You must admit that God desires what He cant have, He longs for what cannot be accomplishedour very salvation is now in jeopardy for the one in whom we place our hope can be thwarted.

Give me scripture references and Ill go through them.

j

JM · Apr 25, 2011

I called but you rejected

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Prov. 1.24 No offer of salvation. It’s a general call.

I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked

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Reading into the text what isn’t there. No offer of salvation mentioned. Besides, this is speaking of the means by which God punishes the wicked, not their eternal death.

I set before you life and death , choose life

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Back it up in Deut. 30. God plainly states that He will perform the saving work of circumcision of the heart. This is not an offer but a general call.

all day long I held out my arms to a disobedient and gainsaying people

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Another general call to partake in the Nation of Israel, her benefits, not salvation.

cygnusx1 · Apr 25, 2011

JM said:
Christ was not offering salvation to the religious leaders in this context, he was gathering believers, His people. They were physically prevented from coming to God incarnate, salvation is not in sight here, and this is a common proof text used by Arminians. There was nothing, NOTHING being offered.

and I didn't say there was , you moved further in your conversation than the Gospel Offer , remember ?

God is not frustrated in saving His people cyg and that is what we are discussing in this thread. You are sounding very Arminian here, tread lightly, you are discarding what you claim to affirm by doing so.

not at all , most Calvinists and all Puritans accpet my view

You must admit that God desires what He cant have, He longs for what cannot be accomplishedour very salvation is now in jeopardy for the one in whom we place our hope can be thwarted.

I never said anything like that ...... in fact I stated in capital letter sthe exact opposite !

Give me scripture references and Ill go through them.

j

I will if I get time .....

JM · Apr 25, 2011

and I didn't say there was , you moved further in your conversation than the Gospel Offer , remember ?

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Nope. You tossed out a quote and I dealt with it.

not at all , most Calvinists and all Puritans accpet my view

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Maybe if you do some creative reading, sure, anything can happen. You might remember the Marrow Controversy and the controversy among the Baptists with Andrew Fuller (Fullerism)? These events happened at the end of the Puritan period and the Marrow Controversy created the Seceder Synods for those who believed God wanted, in some sense, to save those who were reprobate.

I never said anything like that ...... in fact I stated in capital letter sthe exact opposite !

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Yes, you ascribe to paradoxical theology.

I will if I get time .....

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No need brother, and I do mean brother, let us stay on topic.

j

cygnusx1 · Apr 25, 2011

JM said:
JM said:

Prov. 1.24 No offer of salvation. Its a general call.

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its more than just a call , its a call to obtain salvation . God desires that sinners are saved by using the means .

Reading into the text what isnt there. No offer of salvation mentioned. Besides, this is speaking of the means by which God punishes the wicked, not their eternal death.

Click to expand...

then read further , the God who takes no delight in the death of the wicked states , but rather that you would turn and live , and you think this has nothing to do with Gods desire ? baffling .

Back it up in Deut. 30. God plainly states that He will perform the saving work of circumcision of the heart. This is not an offer but a general call.

Click to expand...

Is salvation available to men through the Gospel ? yes !

Does God plead with men ? sure does .

beseech is a Pauline word , and he stated , we bessech you be reconciled to God .... even as though God were saying this through him , He was , it is Gods Gospel , woe betides anyone who invents their own Gospel or conditions or invitations unless God Himself wishes it !

Another general call to partake in the Nation of Israel, her benefits, not salvation.

Click to expand...

the Gospel is far more than a call .... what is a call ? it is merely a command , but God goes much further than a despot merely "commanding" , He beseeches , implores , woes , reasons and convinces men .

The Gospel Offer is a mirror image of Christs condescension.

General Call or Free Offer?

The Bible teaches

the general call of the Gospel.

the free offer or well meant offer of the Gospel.

none of the above and I will explain.

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