Galatians 3

[St.Augustine]

Galatians 3:6-7 "Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham."

Galatians 3:8-9 "And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham."

Galatians 3:26, 29 "For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

How are we to understand these verses?

 

[Jerrysch]

Galatians 3:6-7 "Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham."

Galatians 3:8-9 "And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham."

Galatians 3:26, 29 "For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

How are we to understand these verses?

There is much here, is there not? I will make a comment regarding the last in that it is germane to dispensationalism; "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Many consider this to be a statement regarding the lack of distinction between the church and Israel. And yet it does not state this. For all who are from Abraham, are not sons of Israel, that is ethnic Israel. For those who are of ethnic Isreal are the sons of Jacob (Israel) there are many ofspring of Abraham who are not Jacob's sons. Alos there was more than one provision in the promice to Abraham, he was promiced that he was to be a "father of many nations". This clearly refers to gentiles.

 

[Jerrysch]

Galatians 3:6-7 "Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham."


How are we to understand these verses?

Here we are told of the method by which Abraham was accounted as righteous. It was by faith. Gen 15:6 Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.

It is important to see here that Abraham was counted righteous by faith. It was not a result of keeping any code or doing any work, but by faith alone. This then flies in the face of those who consider that a righteous stance before God can be acquired by any method other than by faith alone. Of course James 2 wiil come out...but that will be left for another post.

 

[Dispy]

The "roots" of ALL believers go back to Abram/Abraham.Read Romans 4:12 right along with verse 13. "And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcsion only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, WHILE HE HAD BEING YET UNCIRCUMICSED. For the promise, that he should be heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or his seed, through the Law, but through the righteousness of FAITH.

Those verses just tell us that justification/salvation is apart from the Law, even while Abram was still a Gentile and before his name was changed to Abraham and he became a Jew in the flesh.

The covenant to Abram was when he was still a Gentile and was unconditional. After his name was changed to Abraham and required to become a "Jew in the flesh" by being circumcised, the unconditional promise to Abram wasn't changed, but new conditions were added to receive the promise. Any Jew that refused to be circumcised, was "cut off from his people; he hath broken the covenant" (Genesis 17:14).

After Abram's name was changed to Abraham, he is no longer referred to as Abram, even when they are talking about the times in which he lived before his name was changed.

Romans 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh (when he was still called Abram and prior to his name change and his
circumcision), hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Paul is speaking of the time in Genesis 15:5,6. Verse 2 identifies to who God is speaking is Abram. Abram was call a friend of the Lord and was declared righteous (justified/saved). Abram was justified/saved just as members of the Body of Christ are today. By FAITH ALONE and not by any deeds/works of the Law.

In contrast to this, James tells us in his Letter 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God

James is talking about the time in Genesis 22 when circumcised Abraham, a Jew in the flesh, at he was justified by doing a work to demonstrate his faith.

So the roots of ALL BELIEVERS go back to Abram/Abraham and are called the children of God. Those that are the seed of Abram are saved by FAITH alone, just as members of the Body of Christ are today, and those that were required to perform deed/works of the Law were saved/justified by doing the deed/works of the law BY FAITH. Salvation/justification has always been on the basis of FAITH. Now read Galations in that light.

As a Gentile, I am a child of God, saved by GRACE, THROUGH FAITH ALONE, and my roots go all the way back to Abram. All believers that were saved during the dispensation of the Law, are children of God, and saved by FAITH ALONE which was demonstrated by dong the deed/works of the Law by FAITH. Isn't Jesus the root in which the promise of salvation/justification is based for ALL mankind?

I, as a member of "the Body of Chirst" am not a Jew or "spiritual" Jew. My salvation/justifiction comes from Chirst through my FAITH ALONE in His Cross work, Just like Abram was saved/justified by just believing God.

All those that were saved/justified during the "dispensation of the Law" are saved by FAITH ALONE by demonstrating that faith by doing what the deed/works of the Law required.

The Cross work of Christ is the root of ALL those that believe.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

 

[St.Augustine]

There is much here, is there not? I will make a comment regarding the last in that it is germane to dispensationalism; "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Many consider this to be a statement regarding the lack of distinction between the church and Israel. And yet it does not state this. For all who are from Abraham, are not sons of Israel, that is ethnic Israel. For those who are of ethnic Isreal are the sons of Jacob (Israel) there are many ofspring of Abraham who are not Jacob's sons. Alos there was more than one provision in the promice to Abraham, he was promiced that he was to be a "father of many nations". This clearly refers to gentiles.

Regarding: Galatians 3:26, 29 "For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

If we have faith we are "heirs"...but what are we heirs of?

As I understand it the verse can be read "And if ye be in Christ, then you are the seed of Abraham, and an heir according to the promise (that in Abraham all nations shall be blessed)."

But that still leaves us pondering what we are heirs of...my initial thought was justification by faith? What do you make of it?

 

[Dave Taylor]

Dispy wrote:

I, as a member of "the Body of Chirst" am not a Jew or "spiritual" Jew. My salvation/justifiction comes from Chirst through my FAITH ALONE in His Cross work, Just like Abram was saved/justified by just believing God.

I would respond similarly; except for one point....

"I, as a member of "the Body of Chirst" am also a Jew or "spiritual" Jew (according to the scriptures,) Romans 2:28 "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." Anyone's salvation/justifiction comes from Chirst through FAITH ALONE in His Cross work, Just like Abram was saved/justified by just believing God. "

Again folks, Dispensationalism is against the scriptures; and creates disharmony, division, disunity, and separation within the Body of Christ; which comprises all the faithful of all ages; redeemed by the Blood of the Lamb; slain from the foundation of the world. There is no caste system within Christianity as dispensationalism likes to create; with 'the church' being a more special and privileged group of believers based on race and birthdate with a more grand destiny....and other inferior groups relegated to being in lesser favor with the Lord; dimished to be 'guests' or 'friends' but not 100% full partakers of Christ's Body as His Bride....No.

There is no ethnic or racial or time-line divide as Dispensationalism tries to create and enforce...there is only the faithful who belong to Christ and are redeemed by Christ; or the unfaithful who belong to the Devil and are damned without Christ.

Jesus spoke to all people when He said, "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls." Matthew 11:28

He didn't say, Jews lineup over here, and get in the guest/friend line....and Church lineup over there, and get in the bride line....don't intermingle and don't mix up because I have two plans for each of you; one a grand a glorious heavenly plan; the other a subjegated, inferior, earthly plan....No.

Christ has one Body....Period.
Ephesians 4:4 "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."

Christ has one Flock. Period.
John 10:16b "and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."

Christ has one Household and one Holy Temple. Period
Ephesians 2:16 "And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord"

Dispensationalism misunderstands and misinterprets the Old Testament in detriment and in conflict with the clear theme given us throughout the New Testament....The Just are saved by Faith; period; in all ages....and the body of Christ spans all ages of believers; not just a select few found within a specific era.

Romans 10:12 "For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him."

Galatians3:26 "For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

Ephesians 3:21, 4:4 "Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end; There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."

1 Corinthians 12:12 "For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. "

2 Corinthians 5:16 "Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ"

Colossians 3:10 "And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all."

Hebrews 2:10, 10:10, 13 "For it became Him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. For both He that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified."

 

[Dispy]

Regarding: Galatians 3:26, 29 "For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

If we have faith we are "heirs"...but what are we heirs of?

As I understand it the verse can be read "And if ye be in Christ, then you are the seed of Abraham, and an heir according to the promise (that in Abraham all nations shall be blessed)."

But that still leaves us pondering what we are heirs of...my initial thought was justification by faith? What do you make of it?

As I have posted earlier, the roots of all believers go all the way back to Abram/Abraham, and salvation/justification has always been by FAITH.

So what are we heirs of? SALVATION/JUSTIFICATION by FAITH. Members of the Body of Christ, the Chruch for today, are not heirs of all the earthly promises to Israel, but our hope/promises are heavenly.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

 

[St.Augustine]

As I have posted earlier, the roots of all believers go all the way back to Abram/Abraham, and salvation/justification has always been by FAITH.

So what are we heirs of? SALVATION/JUSTIFICATION by FAITH. Members of the Body of Christ, the Chruch for today, are not heirs of all the earthly promises to Israel, but our hope/promises are heavenly.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

So we are heirs of justification by faith...so what is the promise?

 

[Dispy]

"...to ever be with the Lord!" (1Thess.4:17; 2Cor.5:1; Phil.3:20). .

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

 

[St.Augustine]

"...to ever be with the Lord!" (1Thess.4:17; 2Cor.5:1; Phil.3:20). .

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

They are not the promises mentioned within the passage though. The promise seems to be "That in thee all the nations will be blessed".

 

[Dispy]

Dispy posted:
I, as a member of "the Body of Chirst" am not a Jew or "spiritual" Jew. My salvation/justifiction comes from Chirst through my FAITH ALONE in His Cross work, Just like Abram was saved/justified by just believing God.

I would respond similarly; except for one point....

[/size][/color][/font]"I, as a member of "the Body of Chirst" am also a Jew or "spiritual" Jew (according to the scriptures,) Romans 2:28 "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." Anyone's salvation/justifiction comes from Chirst through FAITH ALONE in His Cross work, Just like Abram was saved/justified by just believing God. "

Dispy responds:
My response was not in the context of Romans 2:28. I was simply saying that I was not a Jew by nationality, and that I was not a "spiritual" Jew as some members of certain denominations claim when they say that the church today will recieve the promises that God made to Israel. As a member of the Body of Christ, I do not make those claims.

Again folks, Dispensationalism is against the scriptures; and creates disharmony, division, disunity, and separation within the Body of Christ; which comprises all the faithful of all ages; redeemed by the Blood of the Lamb; slain from the foundation of the world. There is no caste system within Christianity as dispensationalism likes to create; with 'the church' being a more special and privileged group of believers based on race and birthdate with a more grand destiny....and other inferior groups relegated to being in lesser favor with the Lord; dimished to be 'guests' or 'friends' but not 100% full partakers of Christ's Body as His Bride....No.

There is no ethnic or racial or time-line divide as Dispensationalism tries to create and enforce...there is only the faithful who belong to Christ and are redeemed by Christ; or the unfaithful who belong to the Devil and are damned without Christ.

Jesus spoke to all people when He said, "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls." Matthew 11:28

He didn't say, Jews lineup over here, and get in the guest/friend line....and Church lineup over there, and get in the bride line....don't intermingle and don't mix up because I have two plans for each of you; one a grand a glorious heavenly plan; the other a subjegated, inferior, earthly plan....No.

Dispy responds:
Dave, dispensationalism is not a denomination/theology/doctrine. It is a manner in which one studies the Scriptures.

From what you have posted it is quite apparent that you do not have a clue as to what dispensationalists believe. Not all dispensationalist believe the same thing. There are many denominationl churches that claim to be dispensational. I know several members of denominational churches that claim to be dispensational. Expecially in the Baptist and Pentecostal Chruches.

You accuse dispensationalists of creating disharmony, division, disunity, and sepeartion within the Body of Christ. As a non-denominational dispensationalist, How do I do that? Looks to me that there is plenty of your accusations to go around for all the different denominations, and within the denominations.

I was reared in a small Dutch community (2000+). There were 7 churches in this town. ALL were of the Reformed/Christian Reformed denomination. They all taught their version of the "doctrine of men" - Calvinism. Why was there a need for 7 churches to teach Calvinism? There are different sects in the Bapist, Charismatic, Lutheran, Methodist, and other denominations. They all have a little different formula as to how to mix the doctrine of Law and Grace. As a non-denominational dispensationalist, Am I creating this disunity within the Body of Christ.? GIVE ME A BREAK.

By studying the Bible from a dispensational viewpoint, I can see that the attributs of God are the same today as they were yesterday, and I am positive they will be the same tomarrow. However, I can see that God has dealt differently with mankind through the course of human history. Were Adam and Eve every required to make animal sacrifices, build and ark, count the stars, be circumcised, keep the Civil, Moral, and Ceremonial Laws of Moses, or place their faith and trust in the Cross work of Christ for their salvation/justification?

Before God set the nation of Israel aside wasn't there a "middle wall of partition" between the Jew and Gentile? Didn't the Gentile have to become a Jew (proselyte) and place themselves under the Laws of Moses in order to serve the true and living God during that time? It that true today?

In the Protestant churches today there is no majority view as to HOW, WHEN or WHY one should be baptized in water. Seems they all have a different formula for the water rite. Am I (we dispensationalists), or God responsible for this confusion? Or is it the "doctrine of men" that is responsible?

So PLEASE explain to me why it is so wrong for me to study the Bible from a dispensational viewpoint.

Christ has one Body....Period.
Ephesians 4:4 "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."

Christ has one Flock. Period.
John 10:16b "and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."

Christ has one Household and one Holy Temple. Period
Ephesians 2:16 "And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord"

Dispensationalism misunderstands and misinterprets the Old Testament in detriment and in conflict with the clear theme given us throughout the New Testament....The Just are saved by Faith; period; in all ages....and the body of Christ spans all ages of believers; not just a select few found within a specific era.

Romans 10:12 "For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him."

Galatians3:26 "For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

Ephesians 3:21, 4:4 "Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end; There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."

1 Corinthians 12:12 "For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. "

2 Corinthians 5:16 "Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ"

Colossians 3:10 "And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all."

Hebrews 2:10, 10:10, 13 "For it became Him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. For both He that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified."

Dispy responds:
I will agree with you in that salvation/justification has always been by FAITH. However, that faith was demonstrated by believing/doing what God required at that point in time of human history.

Before the raising up of the Apostle Paul, there was no such thing as "the Body of Christ." The Body of Christ, Jew and Gentile on equal footing, without distinction, and not under the Law until after Israel was "set aside" temporarily. You cannot show me "the Body of Christ" in prophesy or that the Jew and Gentile would one day be on equal footing and without distinction, or that Israel would not be under the Law. If you would/could, then I would be more then happy to change my views. If you can't show me that, them maybe you should consider changing yours.

With the exception of John 10:16 above, All your Scripture refrences are addressed to members of the Body of Christ, and not Israel. Then you take John 10:16 completely out of context.

Jesus says in Matthew 15:24 that "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Isreal." (He is their shepherd and Israel is His flock.) When Jesus was upon the earth, there was a division between the 12 tribes of Israel. We have the two Souther tribes (Juda), and the 10 Northern tribes (Samaria).

In Matthew 10:5 Jesus commands His disciples "Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not." Jesus Himself never went to any Samaritan. (The Samaritan women at the well, came to Him.)

So in John 10:16 Jesus is not referring to Gentiles, but to the ten Northern tribes of Israel. All Israel must be united before Israel can be that nation of priest, and an holy nation that will bless the nations.

While Jesus was upon the earth and in the Gosples and the first 7 chapters of the book of the Acts, The Law was in effect. After the stoning of Stephen in Acts 7 and the raising up of the Saul/Paul, the nation of Israel was set aside and the dispensation of Grace was ushered in. Law and Grace are two opposing doctrines. Therefore, one should never read the future revelations to Paul into the Gospels. That is mixing Law and Grace which only leads to confusion and denominations.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Much and Love The Lord!

 

[Jerrysch]

Dispy wrote:


I would respond similarly; except for one point....

[/size][/color][/font]"I, as a member of "the Body of Chirst" am also a Jew or "spiritual" Jew (according to the scriptures,) Romans 2:28 "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." Anyone's salvation/justifiction comes from Chirst through FAITH ALONE in His Cross work, Just like Abram was saved/justified by just believing God. "

This passage is not opening the door to all to become Jews! It is limiting the number of persons who should be considered a true Jew. He is saying that being a Jew has got to be more than just an outward expression (being circumcised), it has to be an inward experience.

 

[Jerrysch]

Dispy wrote:



Again folks, Dispensationalism is against the scriptures; and creates disharmony, division, disunity, and separation within the Body of Christ; which comprises all the faithful of all ages; redeemed by the Blood of the Lamb; slain from the foundation of the world. There is no caste system within Christianity as dispensationalism likes to create; with 'the church' being a more special and privileged group of believers based on race and birthdate with a more grand destiny....and other inferior groups relegated to being in lesser favor with the Lord; dimished to be 'guests' or 'friends' but not 100% full partakers of Christ's Body as His Bride....No.

The body of Christ does not comprise the faithful of all ages. The body of Christ, that is the church, is a organism which was developed by the work of the Holy Spirit as recorded in the book of Acts. Jesus spoke of the church twice in the gospels, He tells Peter; Mt 16:18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

Why would Jesus tell Peter that the church was going to be built if it was already in existance?

"There is no caste system within Christianity as dispensationalism likes to create; with 'the church' being a more special and privileged group of believers based on race and birthdate with a more grand destiny....and other inferior groups relegated to being in lesser favor with the Lord; dimished to be 'guests' or 'friends' but not 100% full partakers of Christ's Body as His Bride...."
​

There are two people of God, ethnic Israel and the church, they are together composed of those who have been redeemed by faith. No one will redeemed by any other method than that by faith. Dispensationalism does not create a caste system (?) Dispensationalism allows the Bible to speak for itself. Dispensationalism does not transfer all the promices which God made to ethnic Israel to the church. Dispensationalism meerly observes that God has many "programs" that He has sovereignly determined that He will conduct. Many fail to recognise that dispensationalism is an observational entity. It meerly points out God's program for the ages.​

 

[Jerrysch]

There is no ethnic or racial or time-line divide as Dispensationalism tries to create and enforce...there is only the faithful who belong to Christ and are redeemed by Christ; or the unfaithful who belong to the Devil and are damned without Christ.

Dispensationalists do not enforce anything. However dispensationalism observes that God has made different promices to ethni Isreal and to the church.

Promices God made to ethnic Israel which are not transfered to the church;

Josh 14:9 9"So Moses swore on that day, saying, 'Surely the land on which your foot has trodden will be an inheritance to you and to your children forever, because you have followed the LORD my God fully.'

2Sam 7: 24"For You have established for Yourself Your people Israel as Your own people forever, and You, O LORD, have become their God.

1Kings 9: 5then I will establish the throne of your kingdom over Israel forever, just as I promised to your father David, saying, 'You shall not lack a man on the throne of Israel.'

If all the promices given to Israel are to be transfered to the church why would Paul state;
Rom 9:1 I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, 2that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart. 3For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, 4who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; 5of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.

Paul seems to continue to make he distinction between Israel and the church.

 

[Jerrysch]

Dispensationalism misunderstands and misinterprets the Old Testament in detriment and in conflict with the clear theme given us throughout the New Testament....The Just are saved by Faith; period; in all ages....and the body of Christ spans all ages of believers; not just a select few found within a specific era.

Dispensationalism allows the Old(er) Testament to speak for itself. It allows the words to mean the same thing that it did to the original reciepients, wheh the Old(er) Testament stated "Israel" then the Dispensationalist understands Israel. Do you think that those who were justified by faith prior to the cross who were of ethnic Isreal understood the eternal promices as pertaining to them or to a future entity we know as the church? What gives a person the right to transfer promices which God gave to a particular people to a different people? No, God has promices to ethnic Israel which He hasn't fulfilled as yet. They will be fulfilled just as God has promiced, to say otherwise is to say that God does not keep His promices.I don't think any christian is willing to suggest that.

 

[Huguenot]

Dave Taylor, I believe that you have confused 'Body of Christ' with 'Household of Faith'

 

[Huguenot]

the church, is a organism which was developed by the work of the Holy Spirit as recorded in the book of Acts.

The church is the final phase of God's redemptive programme to which it has been steadily progressing:

Ephesians 1:10 "That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:"

 

[Ebb]

..He tells Peter; Mt 16:18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

Why would Jesus tell Peter that the church was going to be built if it was already in existance?

At the time Jesus was speaking, there was both a future and past aspect of the Church that centered around Christ's still future atoning sacrfice on the cross. Upon that foundation, the Church was built, which encompasses all the elect gathered into one body from all ages: past, present, and future.


Ephesians 1

10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Ephesians 3

21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

Ephesians 4

4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

 

[Huguenot]

See also: http://www.gospelpedlar.com/ladd5.html

 

[Jerrysch]

At the time Jesus was speaking, there was both a future and past aspect of the Church that centered around Christ's still future atoning sacrfice on the cross. Upon that foundation, the Church was built, which encompasses all the elect gathered into one body from all ages: past, present, and future.

There was no past aspect, in that Jesus clearly stated that He would (future tense) built the church. If it was already in existance, then He would not have indicated that He would build it. You are just wasting bandwidth, God has two peoples, ethnic Israel and the Church. Israel started when YHWH changed Jacob's name and the church strted by an act of the Holy Spirit after the resurrection of Jesus