Galatians 3:28

[Insubres]

I've always seen it as rather cut and dry that women are not to teach or lead church according to scripture, but then today I hit about this and realized I need to question that assumption.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

And then there is the troubling issue in that the verse which is against it seems to be Paul's teaching, not necessarily the Holy Spirit or Jesus:

But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

So...hmm. What are the arguments of those in favor of women ministers and pastors?

I know the other side, so please don't derail this into that. There's plenty of stuff about why there shouldn't be women ministers and I have always been on that side and might still be, so there is no point in rehashing that.

 

[manicfaith]

I think one situation that might argue in favor would be that in which a male teacher is unavailable, and a female one is.
I'm currently attending a church that is too small to afford to staff a pastor, and the person who most leads and teaches in the church is a woman, although she's not the pastor. I would think that it is acceptable to God, as there is no other option available right now.
I'm a woman, and I would rather have a female teacher than none at all, though I do think I'd rather have a male one than a female one. I don't know exactly why though.

 

[wayseer]

So...hmm. What are the arguments of those in favor of women ministers and pastors?

I know the other side, so please don't derail this into that. There's plenty of stuff about why there shouldn't be women ministers and I have always been on that side and might still be, so there is no point in rehashing that.

We have to accept the historical and cultural situation which Paul was lived and worked. It was a patriarchal society where women were controlled. Yet it is clear that Paul had women doing much of the work in the early Church and Paul mentions many by name throughout his letters - commending them for their commitment and efforts.

Clearly, Jesus had much to do with women and it was women who had much to do with events immediately after his death.

Culture has shifted and what was socially acceptable in year 51 CE is now no longer acceptable. Women now lead churches. Women are now leaders of their own countries. We can no pretend that women should continue in the role anchored some 2000 years ago.

 

[Insubres]

I don't believe change is necessarily good without some actual merit so that does nothing for me. In Germanic, Celtic and other societies women already ruled nations and the bible says nothing to contradict that, and there's nothing wrong with it. Ministry isn't the same thing though.

Some things don't change, many things that are supposed to be good changes according to many, are not (ex. I know first hand about all that is wrong with homosexuality).

 

[wayseer]

I don't believe change is necessarily good without some actual merit so that does nothing for me.

Then it appears you are making judgements placed upon your own notions of 'merit'. That's OK, we all do something similar. But if you then read scripture in that way then you will get out of it the very things that inform your own worldview as to how things are.

Some things don't change

All things change. If there is any certainty in the world it is that everything changes - including you and I.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Ever notice how both these are worded? Jesus say THOU sufferest and Paul; says BUT I SUFFER NOT as it pertains to a woman in regards to teaching

Rev 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

1Tit 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Ever look at the greek word in that particular verse "to usurp authority"? its not used anywhere else in scripture

authenteō

) one who with his own hands kills another or himself
2) one who acts on his own authority, autocratic
3) an absolute master
4) to govern, exercise dominion over one

Neither is this kind of authority given to men, look at the kind Jesus gives his disciples its different (though it appears the same only because of the english word)

 

[ARBITER01]

I've always seen it as rather cut and dry that women are not to teach or lead church according to scripture, but then today I hit about this and realized I need to question that assumption.


And then there is the troubling issue in that the verse which is against it seems to be Paul's teaching, not necessarily the Holy Spirit or Jesus:


So...hmm. What are the arguments of those in favor of women ministers and pastors?

I know the other side, so please don't derail this into that. There's plenty of stuff about why there shouldn't be women ministers and I have always been on that side and might still be, so there is no point in rehashing that.

Well,... I've yet to see someone produce the law that Paul supposedly was upholding over women in 1st Cor, and it is odd that Paul would do such a thing since he considers the law of moses to be a ministry of death we have been freed from.

Secondly, Paul's opinion is not GOD's law. Those personal letters to Timothy and others were not to the church at large, but to those individuals, and so they are to be taken in that context. Paul may not have allowed women to teach and such, but that was his opinion.

 

[Insubres]

Then it appears you are making judgements placed upon your own notions of 'merit'. That's OK, we all do something similar. But if you then read scripture in that way then you will get out of it the very things that inform your own worldview as to how things are.

All things change. If there is any certainty in the world it is that everything changes - including you and I.

Such a belief jives well with Buddhism (which I used to follow, so I an quite familiar with the sentiment you are expressing) but not Christianity.