From the Glories of Mary

simonthezealot · Mar 8, 2007

http://www.catholictradition.org/Mary/glories6.htm
At the command of Mary all obey, even God. 38
She is omnipotent, for the queen, according to all laws, enjoys the same privileges as the king; and since the son's power also belongs to the mother, this Mother is made omnipotent by an omnipotent Son. 39
Therefore, to use the words of St. Antonine, God has put the whole Church not only under the patronage, but even under the power and authority, of Mary.

Containing the Nihil Obistat;

The Church, given teaching authority by Christ and as the conduit for fullness of Truth on this earth, has the obligation to preserve Her sheep from deviations from the Truth and to to guarantee them the "objective possibility of professing the true faith without error" (Catechism, No. 890). Because of this, the Bishops will look at books published by Catholics on Catholic matters in their dioceses, giving them their "okay" if nothing therein is found to be contrary to the Faith (relevant Canon Law: "Title IV: The Means of Social Communication," ¶ 822-832)

simonthezealot · Mar 8, 2007

Go to Mary, and you will see salvation.

HisBelovedMelody · Mar 8, 2007

Yikes.

simonthezealot · Mar 8, 2007

HisBelovedMelody said:
Yikes.

It is crazy how it is attempted to spin this! it says what it says and this was written only 70 years ago... and has the official stamp of approval, it's just wrong!

simonthezealot · Mar 8, 2007

Omnipotence (literally, "all power") is power with no limits or inexhaustible, in other words, unlimited power. Monotheistic religions generally attribute omnipotence only to God.

IamAdopted · Mar 8, 2007

simonthezealot said:
http://www.catholictradition.org/Mary/glories6.htm
At the command of Mary all obey, even God. 38
She is omnipotent, for the queen, according to all laws, enjoys the same privileges as the king; and since the son's power also belongs to the mother, this Mother is made omnipotent by an omnipotent Son. 39
Therefore, to use the words of St. Antonine, God has put the whole Church not only under the patronage, but even under the power and authority, of Mary.

Containing the Nihil Obistat;

The Church, given teaching authority by Christ and as the conduit for fullness of Truth on this earth, has the obligation to preserve Her sheep from deviations from the Truth and to to guarantee them the "objective possibility of professing the true faith without error" (Catechism, No. 890). Because of this, the Bishops will look at books published by Catholics on Catholic matters in their dioceses, giving them their "okay" if nothing therein is found to be contrary to the Faith (relevant Canon Law: "Title IV: The Means of Social Communication," ¶ 822-832)

Eww This is just eww..

HisBelovedMelody · Mar 8, 2007

This is actual catholic teaching??? Please tell me it isn't so..

PassthePeace1 · Mar 9, 2007

simonthezealot said:
It is crazy how it is attempted to spin this! it says what it says and this was written only 70 years ago... and has the official stamp of approval, it's just wrong!

He was born in 1696 and died in 1787...how could it have been written only 70 years ago?

PassthePeace1 · Mar 9, 2007

HisBelovedMelody said:
This is actual catholic teaching??? Please tell me it isn't so..

No, it is not an official teaching of the Catholic Church that Mary is divinely omnipotent. Only those of the Trinity...Father, Son and Holy Spirit...have that attribute.

He also made statements in that book....

[SIZE=-1]My most loving Redeemer and Lord Jesus Christ, I, Thy miserable servant . . . I know not, however, to whom I could better recommend it than to Thee, who hast her glory so much at heart. To Thee, therefore, do I dedicate and commend it . . . this Immaculate Virgin in whom Thou hast placed the hope and whom Thou hast made the refuge of all the redeemed . . .[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]And now I turn to thee, O my most sweet Lady and Mother Mary. Thou well knowest that, after Jesus, I have placed my entire hope of salvation in thee; for I acknowledge that everything good -- my conversion, my vocation to renounce the world and all the other graces that I have received from God -- all were given me through thy means. (p. 23)[/SIZE]

Here he acknowledging that God is the source of the graces he has recieved, that Mary obtain for him thru her prayers. Only God has the power to dispense graces, but others can pray to Him for these graces.

I firmly believe that my own baptist mother, obtain graces from God, for me...by praying for me as a child, to know Jesus, and by reading me the bible...etc.

But as Catholics we believe that Mary, being blessed amoung all women....and who is also our Mother, has great clout, with Jesus.

[SIZE=-1]"And now, to say all in a few words: God, to glorify the Mother of the Redeemer, has so determined and disposed that of her great charity she should intercede on behalf of all those for whom his divine Son paid and offered the superabundant price of his precious blood in which alone is our salvation, life, and resurrection."[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]On this doctrine, and on all that is in accordance with it, I ground my propositions . . . the plenitude of all grace which is in Christ as the Head, from which it flows, as from its source; and in Mary, as in the neck through which it flows. (p. 26)[/SIZE]

Here again he writes, that Christ is the source of grace...Mary is the "neck" or channel through which it flows....meaning just what I said above, that thru Mary's prayers...she obtain graces from Jesus, on his behalf.

. . it is one thing to say that God cannot, and another that he will not, grant graces without the intercession of Mary. We willingly admit that God is the source of every good, and the absolute master of all graces; and that Mary is only a pure creature, who receives whatever she obtains as a pure favor from God . . . We most readily admit that Jesus Christ is the only Mediator of justice . . . and that by his merits he obtains us all graces and salvation; but we say that Mary is the mediatress of grace; and that receiving all she obtains through Jesus Christ, and because she prays and asks for it in the name of Jesus Christ . . . (pp. 156-157)

Here he acknowledges that Mary is a creature....which of course is not equal to God, but a mediatress....which in reality we are all called to be meadatrixes...by our intercessor prayers.

[SIZE=-1]. . . when these saints and authors tell us in such terms that all graces come to us through Mary, they do not simply mean to say that we "received Jesus Christ, the source of every good, through Mary," as the before-named writer pretends; but that they assure us that God, who gave us Jesus Christ, wills that all graces that have been, that are, and will be dispensed to men to the end of the world through the merits of Christ, should be dispensed by the hands and through the intercession of Mary . . . [this is] necessary, . . . not with an absolute necessity; for the mediation of Christ alone is absolutely necessary; but with a moral necessity . . . (p. 162)[/SIZE]

Notice how he says here "saints and authors tell us"....well, those quotes from the OP are from his book, but you will notice, the numbers beside them....they are footnotes to quotes from other saints and authors....he is stating their quotes, and then later on goes into detail to clarify what they meant.

. Jesus now in heaven sits at the right hand of the Father . . . He has supreme dominion over all, and also over Mary . . . (p. 179)

[SIZE=-1]"Be comforted, O unfortunate soul, who hast lost thy God," says St. Bernard; "thy Lord himself has provided thee with a mediator, and this is his Son Jesus, who can obtain for thee all that thou desirest. He has given thee Jesus for a mediator; and what is there that such a son cannot obtain from the Father?"[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]. . . If your fear arises from having offended God, know that Jesus has fastened all your sins on the cross with his own lacerated hands, and having satisfied divine justice for them by his death, he has already effaced them from your souls . . . " . . . What do you fear, O ye of little faith? . . . But if by chance," adds the saint, "thou fearest to have recourse to Jesus Christ because the majesty of God in him overawes thee -- for though he became man, he did not cease to be God -- and thou desirest another advocate with this divine mediator, go to Mary, for she will intercede for thee with the Son, who will most certainly hear her; and then he will intercede with the Father, who can deny nothing to such a son." (pp. 200-201)[/SIZE]

Here again, her role is thru intercessory prayer....not some God-like creature.

[SIZE=-1]"Either pity me," will I say with the devout St. Anselm, "O my Jesus, and forgive me, and do thou pity me, my Mother Mary, by interceding for me" . . . my Jesus, forgive me; My Mother Mary, help me. (p. 79)[/SIZE]

Hope this clears things up a bit...below is a link to a debate between an well know Catholic apologist and his Protestant counter point....he goes into it in much greater detail..

St. Alphonsus de Liguori & : Blasphemous?

Peace be with you...Pam

PassthePeace1 · Mar 9, 2007

simonthezealot said:
http://www.catholictradition.org/Mary/glories6.htm
At the command of Mary all obey, even God. 38
She is omnipotent, for the queen, according to all laws, enjoys the same privileges as the king; and since the son's power also belongs to the mother, this Mother is made omnipotent by an omnipotent Son. 39
Therefore, to use the words of St. Antonine, God has put the whole Church not only under the patronage, but even under the power and authority, of Mary.

Containing the Nihil Obistat;

The Church, given teaching authority by Christ and as the conduit for fullness of Truth on this earth, has the obligation to preserve Her sheep from deviations from the Truth and to to guarantee them the "objective possibility of professing the true faith without error" (Catechism, No. 890). Because of this, the Bishops will look at books published by Catholics on Catholic matters in their dioceses, giving them their "okay" if nothing therein is found to be contrary to the Faith (relevant Canon Law: "Title IV: The Means of Social Communication," ¶ 822-832)

Footnotes to the quote, above...in which he was quoting other people...

38. St. Bemardine

[SIZE=-1]39. Richard of St. Lawrence[/SIZE]

PassthePeace1 · Mar 9, 2007

The OP's source...is only listing excerpts, if you follow it back to the beginning...it states it is excerpts from The Glories of Mary.

Below is a quote, in taken in it's full context from the same chapter...where the author gives, his explaintions....of the quote from the OP.

Since the mother, then, should have the same power as the son, Jesus, who is omnipotent, has also made Mary omnipotent; though, of course, it is always true that, while Jesus is omnipotent by nature, Mary is omnipotent only by grace. But that she is so appears from the fact that, whatever the mother asks for, the son never denies her. This was revealed to Saint Bridget. One day she heard Jesus talking to Mary and saying: "Ask me for whatever you wish, for whatever you desire will not be denied you." As if he had said: "My Mother, you know how much I love you, so you may ask me for anything you wish. It is not possible for me to refuse you." And he gave this beautiful reason: "Because you never denied me anything on earth, I will not deny you anything in heaven." Mary, then, is called omnipotent in the sense in which such a term can be applied to a creature who is incapable of a divine attribute; that is, she is omnipotent because she obtains by her prayers whatever she wishes

He says "in the sense"....meaning in more of a metaphorical mean, than a literal one.

Even though he and the other saints that he is explaining....use the term, that Mary is omnipotent (all powerful), as I said before they do not mean it in a literal sense. At the beginning of the paragraph, he states that Jesus is omnipotent by nature, where Mary is by grace.....the point he is trying to make, is that because Mary's prayers are so effective, it's as if she was omnipotent.

Certainly, by today's understanding it is not what I would call "comfortable" language. I find it awkward as well...and the Church today, would use language that had a clearer meaning to today's sensiablities. However, it would have been better understood, in the time in which it was written...which was over 250 years ago. But the meaning is still the same, it is thru Mary's intercessory prayers, that she can obtain for us...graces from God...or to put it another way....it is by God, answering her prayers on our behalf...that we obtain the graces.

Catholics believe that Mary as well as any other person in Heaven, are still praying for us.....and since they are in the direct presents of God, their prayers are very effective.

The Glories of Mary < in full context.

simonthezealot · Mar 9, 2007

PassthePeace1 said:
The OP's source...is only listing excerpts, if you follow it back to the beginning...it states it is excerpts from The Glories of Mary.

Below is a quote, in taken in it's full context from the same chapter...where the author gives, his explaintions....of the quote from the OP.

He says "in the sense"....meaning in more of a metaphorical mean, than a literal one.

Even though he and the other saints that he is explaining....use the term, that Mary is omnipotent (all powerful), as I said before they do not mean it in a literal sense. At the beginning of the paragraph, he states that Jesus is omnipotent by nature, where Mary is by grace.....the point he is trying to make, is that because Mary's prayers are so effective, it's as if she was omnipotent.

Certainly, by today's understanding it is not what I would call "comfortable" language. I find it awkward as well...and the Church today, would use language that had a clearer meaning to today's sensiablities. However, it would have been better understood, in the time in which it was written...which was over 250 years ago. But the meaning is still the same, it is thru Mary's intercessory prayers, that she can obtain for us...graces from God...or to put it another way....it is by God, answering her prayers on our behalf...that we obtain the graces.

Catholics believe that Mary as well as any other person in Heaven, are still praying for us.....and since they are in the direct presents of God, their prayers are very effective.

The Glories of Mary < in full context.

From your link...
Yes, Mary is omnipotent, remarks Richard of Saint Lawrence, for by every law the queen enjoys the same privileges as the king. And since the power of a son and that of a mother are the same, a mother is made omnipotent by an omnipotent son. "And thus," says Saint Antoninus, "God has placed the whole Church not only under the patronage, but also under the dominion of Mary."

IamAdopted · Mar 9, 2007

simonthezealot said:
From your link...
Yes, Mary is omnipotent, remarks Richard of Saint Lawrence, for by every law the queen enjoys the same privileges as the king. And since the power of a son and that of a mother are the same, a mother is made omnipotent by an omnipotent son. "And thus," says Saint Antoninus, "God has placed the whole Church not only under the patronage, but also under the dominion of Mary."

With this statment being said puts Mary above God and Christ to me. A mere Human saved by the grace of God willing to do His will now being put above the creator making her comparable to the sinless God which can never be attained from mere man but from God alone. For there was only one whom didn't sin and He was before creation.. His name is Jesus.

PassthePeace1 · Mar 9, 2007

simonthezealot said:
From your link...
Yes, Mary is omnipotent, remarks Richard of Saint Lawrence, for by every law the queen enjoys the same privileges as the king. And since the power of a son and that of a mother are the same, a mother is made omnipotent by an omnipotent son. "And thus," says Saint Antoninus, "God has placed the whole Church not only under the patronage, but also under the dominion of Mary."

Yes, that paragraph is directly above the one I posted....and as I mention, St. Alphonsus Liguori, is clarifying what St. Richard meant, by using that terminology. The term is used metaphorically not literally! Besides even if St. Richard meant it, in the worst case scenario, as you are implying...that doesn't make it Catholic dogma or doctrine...it's just a comment by a saint.

Catholics do not teach or believe that Mary is divinely omnipotent.... Mary is not on the same level as the Trinity, they are God....she is not.

Peace be with you...Pam

PassthePeace1 · Mar 9, 2007

IamAdopted said:
With this statment being said puts Mary above God and Christ to me. A mere Human saved by the grace of God willing to do His will now being put above the creator making her comparable to the sinless God which can never be attained from mere man but from God alone. For there was only one whom didn't sin and He was before creation.. His name is Jesus.

It only appears that way, because it was taking out of context.

Peace be with you...Pam

simonthezealot · Mar 9, 2007

PassthePeace1 said:
It only appears that way, because it was taking out of context.

Peace be with you...Pam

From the 1890 printing pgs 154-156, excerpts...
"the Blessed Virgin can do whatever she pleases both in heaven and on earth
At the command of Mary, all obey, even God
God grants the prayers of Mary as if they were commands
Yes, Mary is omnipotent
for the queen by every law enjoys the same privileges as the king
Since the mother, then, should have the same power as the Son, rightly has Jesus, who is omnipotent, made Mary also omnipotent
whatever the Mother asks for, the Son never denies her" - Glories, pp. 154-156.

Iollain · Mar 9, 2007

PassthePeace1 said:
Here again he writes, that Christ is the source of grace...Mary is the "neck" or channel through which it flows....meaning just what I said above, that thru Mary's prayers...she obtain graces from Jesus, on his behalf.

Peace be with you...Pam

Looks like it is believed that all graces flow through the 'neck', it is given to her, as in all of it, not some, and not in the way you are stating. It is believed that Mary is the decision maker and holder of grace.

http://www.ewtn.com/faith/Teachings/marya4a.htm

PassthePeace1 · Mar 9, 2007

simonthezealot said:
From the 1890 printing pgs 154-156, excerpts...
"the Blessed Virgin can do whatever she pleases both in heaven and on earth
At the command of Mary, all obey, even God
God grants the prayers of Mary as if they were commands
Yes, Mary is omnipotent
for the queen by every law enjoys the same privileges as the king
Since the mother, then, should have the same power as the Son, rightly has Jesus, who is omnipotent, made Mary also omnipotent
whatever the Mother asks for, the Son never denies her" - Glories, pp. 154-156.

Yes, we have been thru this....but you keep taking the quotes out of context, and not taking into consideration, where in the same chapter...he clarifies, the statment from the saints he is quoting, which means it more metaphorically not literally.

PassthePeace1 · Mar 9, 2007

Iollain said:
Looks like it is believed that all graces flow through the 'neck', it is given to her, as in all of it, not some, and not in the way you are stating. It is believed that Mary is the decision maker and holder of grace.

http://www.ewtn.com/faith/Teachings/marya4a.htm

Last time I looked in the mirror, my neck is below my head, not equal to it....all the blood, that my brain (in which my decisions are made)....needs inorder to thrive, flows thru my neck, from my heart.

vrunca · Mar 9, 2007

IamAdopted said:
With this statment being said puts Mary above God and Christ to me.

Oh my!! You should never, ever put The Blessed Mother above God and Christ!! Even with the love and respect I have for Jesus' Mother I would never put her above God and Christ. Why would you think you should put her above God and Christ? You should put no one above God and Christ!

From the Glories of Mary

have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?

have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?

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have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?

have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

CARO CARDO SALUTIS

CARO CARDO SALUTIS

CARO CARDO SALUTIS

CARO CARDO SALUTIS

have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?

Well-Known Member

CARO CARDO SALUTIS

CARO CARDO SALUTIS

have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?

Jer 18:2-6

CARO CARDO SALUTIS

CARO CARDO SALUTIS

STRESSED spelled backwards is DESSERTS

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