Freemasonry is compatible with Christianity?

chaoschristian · Oct 2, 2007

HomeBound said:
See...
This is why it's good that you guys are here to clear up these matters.

The questions I posted only helped clear these matters, so don't be so snooty in your responses.

It's not snootyness you are observing, it's more likely some degree of frustration.

If you take the time to read this entire thread and the handful of others that exist here on Masonry, you will discover that everything you've asked and brought up has been responded to before.

After awhile it gets hard to tell the difference between a question asked in earnest, and another drive-by PRATTster.

Rev Wayne · Oct 2, 2007

The questions I posted only helped clear these matters, so don't be so snooty in your responses.

Forgive me for responding at the same level at which questions are asked. It seemed appropriate at the time, mainly because one of your comments was defended with:

"I was just putting something out there that I've heard on the internet."

Hall exposing secrets 25 years before he even became a Mason is very significant don't you think?

The impossibility of Hall (or anyone else) "exposing" that to which they themselves have not been exposed is even more significant.

Now, this is something I found pretty interesting.
Would you say that this example is just a coincidence?

I wouldn't say anything at all until you tell us just what you think this is an "example" of?

And how could someone superimposing an upside-down triangle over this picture and calling it a "star of David" be considered, by any stretch of the imagination, a "coincidence?"

That's about as coincidental as labeling someone snooty just because they exhibit normal human tendencies to swat gadflies.

Albion · Oct 3, 2007

HomeBound said:
Now, this is something I found pretty interesting.
Would you say that this example is just a coincidence?

Apparently, it is neither an example nor a coincidence. This was added to the dollar just after WW2, I believe, so the claim--often made--that it shows how our Founding Fathers were involved in trying to make a New World Order or something like that, is totally wrong. This has been pointed out many times, most recently on Discover TV channel, as I recall.

If not, would you have any explanation for this?

I have read that Vice-President Henry Wallace was instrumental in placing it on the dollar, although what is symbolized to him about the United States, I don't remember.

Does it indicate that masons are responsible for US currency?

As explained above, absolutely not.

Does the star of David hold any significance in Freemasonry? (hence my question about Zionism)

If it does--and there hundreds of symbols used in Masonry--it can't have much prominence among them. It doesn't appear among any of the dozens of most-frequently used symbols.

I would also point out that this is similar to the accusations made about the FIVE pointed start that is used by the women's organization, the Eastern Star. It is said by anti-Masons that this refers to Satanism...

...except that the Star of David as a symbol of Zionism is of recent origin and the same is true of the Pentagram with today's self-styled witches. Neither was the emblem of their historical origins, not back when Masonry was first using its chosen symbols.

Rev Wayne · Oct 3, 2007

Masonry's five-pointed star is actually a pentalpha, a five-pointed star-shaped figure created by a particular manner of overlaying three separate triangles. They also borrowed the figure from Christianity, where it was used to denote the five wounds of Christ. It was said to be thus representative, because each of the five points, when properly aligned on a figure of the human body, will correspond with one of the five wounds.

Accusers have also made claims about the fact that the star is depicted in Masonry with the central point facing downwards. The claim is, generally, that by pointing downward it depicts satanism, whereas if pointing upward it would be symbolic of God. But this is an anachronism, as no such symbolism existed at the time the symbol was adopted, nor was such symbolism intended by Masons. In some sources in earlier Masonry, in fact, its pointing downward is said to be representative of the Incarnation, of Christ "coming down" to the earth in human form.

In actuality, both appear to be speculation. The accusations are based on interpretations that did not arrive till later, the interpretation as Incarnation was perhaps offered as a defense when the accusations arose. But in digging through old Masonic sources, I find no corroboration for either claim. There are as many sources with the point upwards as there are with the point facing downwards--or even sideways--which seems to indicate, IMHO, that no such directional symbolism was ever even considered by Masons who chose the symbol for other reasons, sans any directional significance to the points.

G19 · Oct 8, 2007

Weren't there 6 wounds? Head, 2 hands, 2 feet, AND side.

Ahhh wait, the side wound was post mortem. Does that matter?

Albion · Oct 8, 2007

G19 said:
Weren't there 6 wounds? Head, 2 hands, 2 feet, AND side.

Ahhh wait, the side wound was post mortem. Does that matter?

The headwound is not counted in the Sacred Five. It is put among the many other but less serious wounds suffered, such as from the scourging, etc.

G19 · Oct 8, 2007

That makes sense.

Rev Wayne · Oct 9, 2007

Happy Birthday Wayne, may it be a blessed one and may God bless you with many more!

P.S. As with my previous post, please take them for the face value as they read. No need to be suspicious or read anything more into them. I don't have to agree with your position on Freemasonry to genuinely wish you a happy birthday, or to courteously acknowledge your discovery during a family-tree project with your daughter.

Thanks, Mike, your greeting did not go unnoticed even though it was unacknowledged.

You are in my thoughts and prayers lately, hope everything is well with you. For some time I've noticed an increased absence from posting here. I recently sent an email, and it came back with a notification that "the recipient's mailbox is full."

Either one of those details by itself would be a signal to me that perhaps all may not be well, both of them together are like red flags with blaring foghorns accompanying. But whatever situation you may find yourself in at the present moment, I'm sure the extra prayers don't hurt, and I pray you are kept in the hand of Almighty God.

O.F.F. · Oct 22, 2007

Hi Wayne,

Your thoughtfulness is greatly appreciated. Be assured that all is well! I have been away on a training assignment for my job. It was a success and I am back now.

We are having server issues, hence the email problem, however our webmaster is working on correcting the problem as quickly as possible. In the meantime, as a courtesy, I will contact you via PM here with an alternative email address. I would ask, however, that you keep it "breast-to-breast."

Thanks again, and may God bless you.

Mike
<><

EXPOSEtheLIES · Oct 31, 2008

oh my this "christian forums" is full of infiltration of satanic occult. Freemasonry is totally satanic. So sad that anyone would try to deny the Truth about that. I Know for a fact about this from my past.

wayseer · Nov 1, 2008

EXPOSEtheLIES said:
Freemasonry is totally satanic.

As a self-professed Christian you cannot utter make this statement with any confidence and says more about you than Freemasonry.

Albion · Nov 1, 2008

EXPOSEtheLIES said:
oh my this "christian forums" is full of infiltration of satanic occult. Freemasonry is totally satanic. So sad that anyone would try to deny the Truth about that. I Know for a fact about this from my past.

Well, since you've signed in as a woman, and Masonry is an all-male organization, your "from my past" knowledge can't be first hand. So what was it?

I have studied this subject very closely and for some years and have reached the conclusion that there are only two ways in which Freemasonry (the basic degrees, that is, not Shrine, Scottish Rite, etc.), could legitimately be called unChristian or unBiblical.

1) If you are one of the very few Christians who believe that it is necessary to have complete doctrinal agreement before joining in a prayer with another Christian of another denomination, then the praying of the Lord's Prayer or saying grace, which Masons do, would not work for you. I'm a Christian but not one of those Christians.

2) There is such a hidden meaning in the various rituals that only a handful of highly placed Masons in the world knows the true meaning. If that is the case, no opponent of Masonry such as we meet on these forums has any idea of that supposed hidden meaning either.

huldah153 · Nov 1, 2008

Freemasonry is controlled at the top by the Illuminati. These are not the words of a deranged conspiracy theorist, but of George Washington.

Albion · Nov 1, 2008

huldah153 said:
Freemasonry is controlled at the top by the Illuminati. These are not the words of a deranged conspiracy theorist, but of George Washington.

Apparently not.

Your link takes us to this passage attributed to George Washington:
"It was not my intention to doubt that, the Doctrines of the Illuminati, and principles of Jacobinism had not spread in the United States. On the contrary, no one is more truly satisfied of this fact than I am.
The idea that I meant to convey, was, that I did not believe that the Lodges of Free Masons in this Country had, as Societies, endeavoured to propagate the diabolical tenets of the first, or pernicious principles of the latter (if they are susceptible of seperation). That Individuals of them may have done it, or that the founder, or instrument employed to found, the Democratic Societies in the United States, may have had these objects; and actually had a seperation of the People from their Government in view, is too evident to be questioned. "

Nowhere in that passage, assuming these are the words of George Washington, does he say that Masonry is controlled at the top by the Illuminati. As we can see, Washington says the opposite--that the principles associated with them and the Jacobins had not affected American Masonry. And he says nothing of the condition of European Masonry there.

He says the opposite of what you said.

Then too, Washington was a lifelong Mason and even took his oath of office on a Masonic edition of the Bible. I doubt that anyone can make that fact into a renunciation of Freemasonry.

EXPOSEtheLIES · Nov 1, 2008

i assure you with a little research you will KNOW masonry is connected to the satanic cults...
FAMOUS SATANIC OCCULTISTS and MASONS... eg...A. E. Waite,William Wynn Westcott,Samuel Liddel "MacGregor" Mathers, Aleister Crowley, Doctor (Albert Karl) Theodor Reuss,"Old George" Pickingill,Bishop Charles W. Leadbeater ,Manly P. Hall ,Gerald Brosseau Gardner
etc

The women's division of Freemasonry, Eastern Star is based upon the "evil Satan" Star, the Goats Head of Mendes. This is one of the Infernal Names of Satan within Satanism."It [Pentagram] consists of a five-pointed star inside a circle. It is the key symbol of the Craft. It is the witch's Mandala ...."The Pentagram, inside a circle or with no circle, is the key symbol of witchcraft. Both "good" and "evil" pentagrams are within Freemasonry in abundance.

Where do you think they get the blood for their blood rituals? the grocery store? now im not talking about the lower level masons im talking about the generational higher degrees. Look, if you want to believe its just an innocent little club hey go ahead.But i am telling you it is my experience that MOST of the satanic cults require their members to be masons. PERIOD.

JESUS CHRIST is Lord! NOT gaotu/aka lucifer/aka satan/aka "any supreme being"

try google..."masonic mystery religIons"

MASONRY itself ACKNOWLEDGES THAT FREEMASONRY ORIGINATED IN THE PLACE WHERE SATAN DWELLS!

Masonic author, Perkins, has just admitted that Freemasonry originated in the place where Shiva (Satan) lives. Manly P. Hall, 33rd Degree Mason, K.T., in his book, Initiates of the Flame boldly admits Freemasonry is from Hell:
"Those who follow the path of faith (or the heart) use water and are known as the Sons of Seth, while those who follow the path of the mind and action are the Sons of Cain, who was the son of SAMAEL , the Spirit of Fire. Today, we find the latter among the alchemists, the Hermetic philosophers, the Rosicrucians and the Freemasons." [p. 20]
Hall places Freemasonry among the circle of the damned -- Sons of Cain , who rebelled against God; alchemists who are known sorcerers, Black Magicians, and worshippers of Satan, and the Rosicrucians who have so desecrated the precious cross of Jesus Christ with Pentagrams and Hexagrams as to make you sick.

Rev 21:8 But the COWARDLY, the UNBELIEVING the VILE, the MURDERERS, the SEXUALLY IMMORAL, those who practice MAGICK arts, the IDOLATORS and all LIARS-their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

Albion · Nov 1, 2008

EXPOSEtheLIES said:
i assure you with a little research you will KNOW masonry is connected to the satanic cults...
FAMOUS SATANIC OCCULTISTS and MASONS... eg...A. E. Waite,William Wynn Westcott,Samuel Liddel "MacGregor" Mathers, Aleister Crowley, Doctor (Albert Karl) Theodor Reuss,"Old George" Pickingill,Bishop Charles W. Leadbeater ,Manly P. Hall ,Gerald Brosseau Gardner
etc

The women's division of Freemasonry, Eastern Star is based upon the "evil Satan" Star, the Goats Head of Mendes. This is one of the Infernal Names of Satan within Satanism."It [Pentagram] consists of a five-pointed star inside a circle. It is the key symbol of the Craft. It is the witch's Mandala ...."The Pentagram, inside a circle or with no circle, is the key symbol of witchcraft. Both "good" and "evil" pentagrams are within Freemasonry in abundance.

Where do you think they get the blood for their blood rituals? the grocery store? now im not talking about the lower level masons im talking about the generational higher degrees. Look, if you want to believe its just an innocent little club hey go ahead.But i am telling you it is my experience that MOST of the satanic cults require their members to be masons. PERIOD.

JESUS CHRIST is Lord!~ NOT gaotu/aka lucifer/aka satan/aka "any supreme being"

try google..."masonic mystery religIons"

MASONRY itself ACKNOWLEDGES THAT FREEMASONRY ORIGINATED IN THE PLACE WHERE SATAN DWELLS!

Masonic author, Perkins, has just admitted that Freemasonry originated in the place where Shiva (Satan) lives. Manly P. Hall, 33rd Degree Mason, K.T., in his book, Initiates of the Flame boldly admits Freemasonry is from Hell:
"Those who follow the path of faith (or the heart) use water and are known as the Sons of Seth, while those who follow the path of the mind and action are the Sons of Cain, who was the son of SAMAEL , the Spirit of Fire. Today, we find the latter among the alchemists, the Hermetic philosophers, the Rosicrucians and the Freemasons." [p. 20]
Hall places Freemasonry among the circle of the damned -- Sons of Cain , who rebelled against God; alchemists who are known sorcerers, Black Magicians, and worshippers of Satan, and the Rosicrucians who have so desecrated the precious cross of Jesus Christ with Pentagrams and Hexagrams as to make you sick."

With a little research I know that I can find many ALLEGATIONS. What is missing is evidence or even, in many cases, a plausible argument. You, of course, only know what you've read and nothing first hand, even though you told us that you know "for a fact" that Masonry is "totally satanic." That's the way all these "exposes" seem to go. All talk.

Here's an example. The use of the Pentagram by Satanists is of relatively recent origin. The Eastern Star's use is much older. And it normally does not come with any circle, is not hollow in the manner of witchcraft's pentagram, and does not have a representation of a goat anywhere.

Here's another. "Jesus Christ is Lord" is not rejected merely because some members may be non-Christians ("any supreme being") but that's what you printed out for us.

You see, what I'm saying is that there are only allegations. And much of what you printed out there just is just stated as if it were fact. If I could find damning facts, I'd be on your side.

EXPOSEtheLIES · Nov 1, 2008

if you are a mason you KNOW that one does not need to acknowledge Jesus Christ as Lord and God but only a "supreme being" Jesus Christ is NOT to be confused with the "supreme being gaotu" which is worshiped by alll faiths of masonry.

I gave you many refrences already and I can give you many more, or do you even want to know the Truth? Just do your own research start with Manly P Hall if that doesnt give you enough evidence then serve whom you choose. But I choose to serve the Lord Jesus Christ.

And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that [were] on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD. Jos 24:15

Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.(1Cr 10:21)

Albion · Nov 1, 2008

EXPOSEtheLIES said:
if you are a mason you KNOW that one does not need to acknowledge Jesus Christ as Lord and God but only a "supreme being" Jesus Christ is NOT to be confused with the "supreme being gaotu" which is worshiped by alll faiths of masonry.

I didn't say that I was a Mason but that I'd been studying it in order to see what's what. It is common knowledge that Masonry is open to men who affirm a belief in one God. Many organizations, such as the Boy Scouts, are for believers in God, most of whom are Christians, but also allow Jews and Muslims. I also know of a lot of good organizations that don't require members to believe in ANY god. Should I avoid, for example, the Exchange Club and Rotary, too?

Obviously the organization is not going to state a belief or pray to only one faith's idea of God, but uses a substitute name, "Great Architect of the Universe" which is taken from Calvin's description of God. No one believes that there is a god named "Gaotu" LOL and no Mason "worships" him in any Masonic ritual from what I can find out.

Anyway, I don't see anything wrong with having a club with good values that men of different faiths are allowed to join. Do you? Meanwhile, it's claims like this one that can be shown to be untrue that work against the critics of Masonry. Against that, I have to balance the writers on the other side.

I gave you many refrences already

Well, several.

and I can give you many more

OK. That would be good. But the point here is for there to be hard and fast evidence.

Just do your own research start with Manly P Hall

Fair enough. Can you summarize what he reveals in his book? It's not available in my local libraries, I know for sure, having read everything they have.

From what I can find online, Hall does NOT warn against Freemasonry OR say that it is Satanic. In fact, if you carefully read the lines you cut and pasted, you will see that this is the case.

He says that believers in the occultism that he was famous for believing in BEFORE he became a Mason are to be found "among" the Masons, not that they are what Masonry is about. Just like the George Washington quote that was posted before, the poster misunderstood what was being said.

wayseer · Nov 1, 2008

huldah153 said:
Freemasonry is controlled at the top by the Illuminati.

Which leaves you in possession of information that only the 'top' would known. Your sense of propriety has left you.

wayseer · Nov 1, 2008

EXPOSEtheLIES said:
Where do you think they get the blood for their blood rituals? the grocery store?

Where does the Church gets its blood and body from to form the Eucharist - the local store?

The rest of your post is really the sort of assembly line of grand conspiracy theories that make good fiction. Do yourself a favour and stop reading pulp fiction.

Freemasonry is compatible with Christianity?

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