Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Option 3: we act based on impulses that originate in our own conscience.If we don't act randomly, then we must act for a reason. If we act for a reason, then we are determined. There is no free will.
Option 3: we act based on impulses that originate in our own conscience.
True or not, its another possibility that you apparently haven't considered.
Questions that probe the very edges of current human understanding.Where do our own consciences come from? What makes them? Why are they the way they are?
Thats an excellent objection to free will.
But... someone "inside" there gets to be referee of all the various pressures, values, influences, etc. You can cultivate that referee.
Scientists can only say so much on free will. They surely cannot say whether or not it's true. A recent brain scan test revealed that brain activity takes place up to 10 seconds before we actually decide on something. It is our unconscious deciding before we consciously decide. That implies determinism, at least to me.Well it's for scientists to tell us which is true. Things seem sort of random (or probabilistic?) at a quantum level, but determined at our level.
You don't explain very well what it is you're talking about. What do you mean by the co-existence of free will with determinism? Or with randomness.
In my last post I said:
"If we don't act randomly, then we must act for a reason. If we act for a reason, then we are determined. There is no free will."
A will which makes decisions for reasons is necessarily determined, and a determined thing by definition isn't free.
If you need need more explanation, about what superficially?
Are you sure? Yes, brain activity is observed. But to go on to claim that our unconscious deciding?Scientists can only say so much on free will. They surely cannot say whether or not it's true. A recent brain scan test revealed that brain activity takes place up to 10 seconds before we actually decide on something. It is our unconscious deciding before we consciously decide. That implies determinism, at least to me.
Brain Scans Can Reveal Your Decisions 7 Seconds Before You “Decide” | Exploring The Mind!Are you sure? Yes, brain activity is observed. But to go on to claim that our unconscious deciding?
How do you know that?
Maybe its our unconscious simply becoming aware of the need for a decision. Or something else.
Very weak. And here's why: the experiment is basically about a motor impulse, with no consequences attached.Brain Scans Can Reveal Your Decisions 7 Seconds Before You “Decide” | Exploring The Mind!
Well that's what the study suggests. And it's convincing. It happens all the time with different things. Like how we act on impulse on some things.
Option 3: we act based on impulses that originate in our own conscience.
True or not, its another possibility that you apparently haven't considered.
One possible reason for those impulses is that we consider them and then decide.Actually I've been considering that the entire time. The reason I rejected free will was because of considering this. I have no idea why you continually think I haven't considered the options.
An impulse from our own conscience can't be anything other than random or determined. If the impulses are as they are for a reason, then they are determined. If there's no reason why they are as they are, then they are random. There's simply no room for free will.
They're not trying to predict ones major in college. They're trying to predict exactly what they were. And they did. Also, I didn't say, and nor does the study say, that all human choices apply.Very weak. And here's why: the experiment is basically about a motor impulse, with no consequences attached.
I'd like to see how far ahead they can predict an individual's choice of what major to pick in college, or an author's decision for what happens to a character.
I have no doubt that many human actions are "decided" unconsciously. But to say that applies to ALL human choices is not warranted by the research.
Exactly, so the study doesnt imply determinism generally.....Also, I didn't say, and nor does the study say, that all human choices apply.
One possible reason for those impulses is that we consider them and then decide.
Yes, the impulses are there for a reason. But that reason can originate in the self, and not be 100% tethered to a cause effect chain. Iin other words, the human self, at least to some tiny extent, is a new cause in the world. It can begin cause/effect chains.
At least thats how it seems. I'm open to evidence either way.
One possible reason for those impulses is that we consider them and then decide.
Yes, the impulses are there for a reason. But that reason can originate in the self, and not be 100% tethered to a cause effect chain.
It does imply determinism. It doesn't have to be controversial what matters is that some actions arise from the unconscious, and who are we to say if not the majority of them do?Exactly, so the study doesnt imply determinism generally.
Its barely controversial that some actions arise from the unconscious.
I dont know.How does that work, exactly? Does a new part of the brain spontaneously pop into existence uncaused or something?
I said it doesnt imply determinism generally.It does imply determinism. It doesn't have to be controversial what matters is that some actions arise from the unconscious, and who are we to say if not the majority of them do?
Paradoxum, you ask the hard questions. Still working on this one.I'll point out that the possibility of this is what I have considered the whole time. I concluded that there is no free will while wondering whether even a soul could have free will.
The soul might not be physically determined, but that doesn't mean it isn't psychologically determined. For example, I might consider reasons X,Y, and Z, when choosing to do action M. If reasons X,Y, and Z fully explain why I chose to do M, then I am determined. If they don't fully explain why I choose to do M (and nothing does), then my choice to do M is random.
Again, there doesn't seem to be any possibility for anything other than determinism or randomness.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?