Founders of Freemasonry?

Skip Sampson · Dec 7, 2014

Simpleman25 said:
If you were knowledgeable enough you would know we don't circumvent anything.

So you are not going to tell us how you circumvent your GL's rules on discriminating against candidates on the basis of their religion? Such is the openness and honesty that is the hallmark of the Freemason. Cordially, Skip.

circuitrider · Dec 7, 2014

Skip, you really give me a chuckle sometimes. Maybe it is southern vunacular? But when you run around this forum doing your darnedest to tear down Freemasonry and Masons and then sign your messages "cordially" I have to laugh. It reminds me of when a southern lady says to a women whom she thinks is an idiot "well bless your heart!" The last thing she means is that the other person should be blessed.

Have you ever thought about cutting the balony and quit pretending? The way you twist people's words here on this forum shows no cordiality nor warmth or friendliness.

We know your goal here isn't positive or cordial. You are here to convince people that a large segment of men in the Church are part of some neferious enterprise that is non-Christian or anti-Christian.

If you are going to run us down and claim that we aren't being honest, the least you could do is be honest with yourself and recognize that there is nothing "cordial" in what you'd like to see happen to the Masonic fraternity.

Skip Sampson · Dec 8, 2014

circuitrider said:
The way you twist people's words here on this forum...

Can you provide an example of that? Cordially, Skip.

circuitrider · Dec 8, 2014

Skip Sampson said:
Can you provide an example of that? Cordially, Skip.

Skip, I don't have time nor interest to catalogue your errors. I don't care to argue you out of your position. Nor do I care to humor your distructive agenda.

Sadly some Christians are taken in by your rhetoric because they have a prediliction for conspiracy theories and convoluted logic. It is a lot more fun to believe that Masons are doing something sinister behind closed doors than to know that we gather to teach moral lessons and have some fellowship.

What you espouse has no resemblance to Freemasonry.

Skip Sampson · Dec 9, 2014

circuitrider said:
I don't have time nor interest to catalogue your errors.

It's more true to say that you don't have the facts to do so.

It is a lot more fun to believe that Masons are doing something sinister behind closed doors than to know that we gather to teach moral lessons and have some fellowship.

I think it more silly than sinister. A group of men wearing aprons pretending to be something they are not. Cordially, Skip.

Rhamiel · Dec 9, 2014

this thread is about the foundations of Christianity, but no one can prove that the founders of Freemasonry were Christian

Simpleman25 · Dec 9, 2014

This is an old verse called the 'Ahiman Rezon'. This was one of the only writings that the early lodge agreed with. Much like everything else, each country had their own rules and ideas.

"Concerning God and Religion A Mason is obliged by his Tenure to believe firmly in the true Worship of the eternal[bless and do not curse]God, as well as in all those sacred Records which the Dignitaries and Fathers of the Church have compiled and published for the Use of all good Men: So that no one who rightly understands the Art, can possibly tread in the irreligious Paths of the unhappy[bless and do not curse]Libertine, or be induced to follow the arrogant Professors of[bless and do not curse]Atheism[bless and do not curse]or[bless and do not curse]Deism; neither is he to be stained with the gross Errors of blind Superstition, but may have the Liberty of embracing what Faith he shall think proper, provided at all Times he pays a due Reverence to his Creator, and by the World deals with Honor and Honesty ever making that golden Precept the Stanrdard-Rule of his Actions, which engages, To do unto all Man as he would they should do unto him: For the Craft, instead of entering into idle and unnecessary Disputes concerning the Different Opinions and Persuasions of Men, admits into the Fraternity all that are good and true."[1]

circuitrider · Dec 9, 2014

Skip Sampson said:
It's more true to say that you don't have the facts to do so.I think it more silly than sinister. A group of men wearing aprons pretending to be something they are not. Cordially, Skip.

Believe what you want Skip. It is yet more true that you can't goad me into going through a litany of all the areas Masons disagree with you. That's a pointless waste of time.

As to Masonry being silly, you might think that. But if that's all it was I doubt you'd have dedicated so much of your time to it. Very very few people would spend as much time arguing about something as you have if it were just silly in their mind. Apparently you just have way too much free time if you can spend so much time arguing about something that is just silly.

circuitrider · Dec 9, 2014

Rhamiel said:
this thread is about the foundations of Christianity, but no one can prove that the founders of Freemasonry were Christian

To be blunt, so what? It has never been in the interest of Freemasonry to prove that our founders were of any faith other than a faith in God. That's your problem with Freemasonry Rhamiel. Freemasonry isn't a Christian organization and does not claim to be.

Albion · Dec 9, 2014

circuitrider said:
To be blunt, so what? It has never been in the interest of Freemasonry to prove that our founders were of any faith other than a faith in God. That's your problem with Freemasonry Rhamiel. Freemasonry isn't a Christian organization and does not claim to be.

I wonder if it follows logically that Rhamiel does not and never has belonged to any civic organization, sporting team or association, school club, discount buyers club, political party, homeowners' association, swim club, Boy Scouts, or the like that had members who were not professed Christians?

circuitrider · Dec 9, 2014

Albion said:
I wonder if it follows logically that Rhamiel does not and never has belonged to any civic organization, sporting team or association, school club, discount buyers club, political party, homeowners' association, swim club, Boy Scouts, or the like that had members who were not professed Christians?

It seems to be the foregone conclusion that Rhamiel has only ever belonged to totally Christian organizations. I don't know how he has managed it.

Rhamiel · Dec 10, 2014

circuitrider said:
It seems to be the foregone conclusion that Rhamiel has only ever belonged to totally Christian organizations. I don't know how he has managed it.

I have been involved in Christian organizations
and I have been in secular organizations

I have not been in any pseudo-religious secret societies

Albion · Dec 10, 2014

Rhamiel said:
I have been involved in Christian organizations
and I have been in secular organizations

No kidding? Then you've violated your own rules, haven't you?

Rhamiel · Dec 10, 2014

Albion said:
No kidding? Then you've violated your own rules, haven't you?

no
join a Soccer Team
most Soccer Teams do not make up names for God, have religious requirements, teach that all religions are equal, or any nonsense like that
Soccer Teams talk about soccer
nothing unchristian about that

also no unchristian oaths that involve murder

so soccer teams are compatible with Christianity

americanvet · Dec 10, 2014

Rhamiel said:
n
also no unchristian oaths that involve murder

There is NO I repeat NO oath about murder in the Masonic Lodge! None at all this is an absolute lie on your behalf or you have been mislead by someone.

jacknife · Dec 10, 2014

americanvet said:
There is NO I repeat NO oath about murder in the Masonic Lodge! None at all this is an absolute lie on your behalf or you have been mislead by someone.

i live around a masonic temple, I've attended it my whole life. and this poster is correct they even allow an atheist like me to attend there. they have dinner there once a month its an innocent place.

Albion · Dec 10, 2014

americanvet said:
There is NO I repeat NO oath about murder in the Masonic Lodge! None at all this is an absolute lie on your behalf or you have been mislead by someone.

I'm sure he knows that, but we are dealing with a pattern.

Albion · Dec 10, 2014

Rhamiel said:
no
join a Soccer Team
most Soccer Teams do not make up names for God, have religious requirements

That's interesting, considering that I gave you a long list of examples of organizations you might have belonged to...and you reply about one: a sports team. And I know for a fact that many sports teams do share a prayer together. Yours probably did or does also.

don't teach that all religions are equal, or any nonsense like that

Agreed. And neither does Masonry. Are you intending to get to the point soon?

also no unchristian oaths that involve murder

Right. And neither does Masonry have anything like that.

so soccer teams are compatible with Christianity

We don't know that a Christian invented Soccer, though, do we? That was the ploy that kicked off this thread.

So how about the issue at hand? Do you seriously expect me to think that a soccer team is the only contact with other humans that you've ever had (offline, that is)?

Albion · Dec 10, 2014

Rhamiel said:
so soccer teams are compatible with Christianity

OK. Let's agree on that!

But by the way, I notice that you make some outrageous accusations, never backing them up with a bit of evidence, and that you don't even react when the questions you pose are answered--not to say you now understand, you have additional questions about that, etc.

So I feel that I have to inquire...

You asked "What does Freemasonry say about the Great Architect?" I responded that Masonry says that He is One and He saves Mortals.

Why don't you finish off that thought by explaining what you find to be pagan, unchristian, heretical , or anything like that, about God being seen as One and/or that he saves mortals. Thanks.

Skip Sampson · Dec 10, 2014

Albion said:
I notice that you make some outrageous accusations, never backing them up with a bit of evidence,

LOL! Cordially, Skip.

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