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Fossil Record not consistent with Global Flood

KWCrazy

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Hang on a moment. Are you claiming that such suspension is a criticism for a theory? Because if so, I think the idea of a global flood has a whole lot more problems.
A global flood requires a supernatural being to suspend or supersede natural law. So does the local flood theory. However, the local flood theory seeks to find an explanation other than that which was reported by God, which means your theory has no invisible means of support.
 
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KWCrazy

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When the glaciers melted they left natural land damns behind.
Glaciers in the Middle East?
Natural dams with no evidence whatever?

Even today this is still an issue with global warming flooding.
There hasn't been global warming for 18 years. Climate alarmists now say "climate change."
I studied all the elevation maps for the area to confirm my theory.
Unless you made your own topographical maps, you won't find any that rim the Middle East with a water solid barrier.
One thing you have to remember is that the Bible has been proven again and again to be absolute truth.
I'm not the one disputing that.
We are reading a book written 3500 years ago, so we may not always understand.
It's not the things that are ambiguous that give you problems, it's the plainly written literal text.
Plus the Bible is written in a way so that there are multiple layers of understanding and meaning.
In some places yes, in others no. In some places you have to understand the culture to understand the meaning.
 
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The Cadet

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There hasn't been global warming for 18 years. Climate alarmists now say "climate change."
The term "climate change" has been around since the 50s; as has the term "global warming", meant to refer to one specific aspect of climate change. A simple search through Google Books or the peer-reviewed literature.



This is a stupid, easily-debunked myth. Whoever told you this lied to you, almost certainly knowingly. You should think long and hard about why.


Oh. Well okay then. So in other words: "it's fair to suspend the laws of nature when it's my belief that's in question", does that about sum it up?
 
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Subduction Zone

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Rejecting concepts simply because they were written long ago is fallacious reasoning because the premise is seriously flawed.
No one is doing that. Concepts such as a worldwide flood, or even a local one, have no evidentiary support and in fact tons of evidence that says it did not happen.

Believing ancient concepts simply because they agree with your religion is fallacious reasoning because the premise is seriously flawed.
 
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Radrook

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I am referring to the constant statements which atheists are fond of making that such concepts were written long ago as if that were enough in itself for a rejection. If indeed that reference is totally irrelevant to the validity of the idea, then why constantly mention it? Mentioning it constantly elicits a response.

And yes, I agree, believing things simply because we are told to belief is stupid.

Fortunately I don't fall into that category and neither do creationist scientists who have the credentials to properly evaluate if indeed the scientific method is being applied objectively or not or whether it is being purposefully ignored or violated due to certain atheistic agendas.

Also, not all believers in an ID are the same. Some are young Earthers and some are not.
Some believing evolution and some don't. But what they all have in common is that they perceive intelligent design in nature despite their religious and scientifically divergent viewpoints.

This idea that believing in an ID and being a scientist is incompatible or impossible is a a bogus concept since there are tons of evidence proving otherwise. So the constant harping on this bogus claim comes across as as an attempt at malicious misrepresentation.
 
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KWCrazy

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This is a stupid, easily-debunked myth.
Satellites show no ‘global warming’ for 18 1/2 years – No N. Pole warming for nearly 14 years – No S. Pole warming for 37 years! source

NOAA Radiosonde Data Shows No Warming For 58 Years source

Roy Spencer, John Christy, and William Braswell of the University of Alabama in Huntsville (UAH) Earth System Science Center recently released Version 6 (V.6) of their global satellite temperature dataset. The scientists describe the upgrade, which took three years to complete, as “by far the most extensive revision of the procedures and computer code we have ever produced in over 25 years of global temperature monitoring.”

Compared to the previous UAH dataset (V5.6), the most important change is a reduction in the global average lower-troposphere temperature trend from +0.140°C/decade to +0.114°C/decade over the past 36 years (Dec. ’78 through Mar. ’15). source

The Period Of No Global Warming Will Soon Be Longer Than the Period of Actual Global Warming source

People are infatuated with their own concept of importance. We didn't create the planet and we can't destroy it. It doesn't belong to us. Human activity as a causal factor for anything in regards to the climate is negligible.

So in other words: "it's fair to suspend the laws of nature when it's my belief that's in question", does that about sum it up?
If you don't understand that God can supersede natural law, then you have no understanding of God.
If you don't understand that a natural occurrence cannot supersede natural law, then you have no understanding of science.
 
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The Cadet

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I am referring to the constant statements which atheists are fond of making that such concepts were written long ago as if that were enough in itself for a rejection.

That's not really the point, though. The idea is that our current scientific understanding is wrong, but the writing of bronze-age goat herders who knew nothing of the scientific method (or, for that matter, the shape of the earth) are unquestionably accurate. It's simply absurd.

Roy Spencer, John Christy, and William Braswell of the University of Alabama in Huntsville (UAH) Earth System Science Center recently released Version 6 (V.6) of their global satellite temperature dataset.

What do literally all the other datasets show?

Look, it's been pointed out numerous times that Spencer's data is problematic. For starters, it is the only data set showing any sort of pause in the warming, and even then, the last two years have not been kind to the hypothesis.

https://www.skepticalscience.com/satellite-measurements-warming-troposphere.htm

It's known to be flawed.

If you don't understand that God can supersede natural law, then you have no understanding of God.

How do we know Last Thursdayism is wrong?
 
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Radrook

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Why does the being have to be supernatural?
Technologically advanced beings could accomplish things that appear to us as if they are defying natural laws. In fact, if we could place someone from our distant past in our time that person would conclude that we are suspending natural laws.
 
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Subduction Zone

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At any rate if a Noah's Flood did happen there should be evidence for it. There is none.
 
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Super Hotdog Salesman

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2. No creationist can be a true scientist retort is called the no True Scotsman fallacy. That fallacy flies in the face of the tons of evidence which proves your assumption to be totally bogus.

It's not a no-true-scotsman fallacy, you are just misunderstanding. So called "Creation Science" is a contradiction of terms, because creationism is not science. Therefore, there is no such thing as "Creation Scientists." One could do real scientific work and also do pseudoscience on the side, which is the case with these sorts of people. So sure, they are being true scientists when they use the scientific method, but they are being con-men when writing "Creation Science" literature.
 
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joshua 1 9

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During the last ice age the Persian gulf would have been almost entirely dry.
 
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joshua 1 9

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At any rate if a Noah's Flood did happen there should be evidence for it. There is none.
There is tons of evidence that the Bible is true and that the story of Noah is accurate. This is what domestication is all about and this is how farming spread from the Middle East to the rest of the world.
 
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Subduction Zone

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There is tons of evidence that the Bible is true and that the story of Noah is accurate. This is what domestication is all about and this is how farming spread from the Middle East to the rest of the world.

Sorry but there is no reliable evidence for that.<staff edit>
 
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KWCrazy

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Why does the being have to be supernatural?
Natural law holds that water will flow to a more or less uniform level relative to the core of the planet. Whether water was stacked upon itself or whether there was a global flood, either case requires a circumstance that is not replicable using natural law. Since nothing in the natural world can supersede natural law, the answer must lie with the supernatural.
 
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Subduction Zone

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Or the event never happened in the first place.
 
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joshua 1 9

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Sorry but there is no reliable evidence for that. <staff edit>
There is tons of evidence for the Bible. There maybe no evidence for your understanding or interpretation of the Bible. There is a reason why the Bible is still in it's first edition after 3500 years. Yet just about every text book at the university is going through constant revision. My son even has a literature book that has been revised 22 times. Whey would literature need to be revised? If you want books filled with errors, mistakes and in need of updating and revisions, go to the book store of any university anywhere. The Bible remains consistent and true.

Atheist seem to build a straw-man interpretation and falsify their own understanding. All that proves is that they do not understand the Bible and they do not have the Holy Spirit of God to guide and lead them into the truth. There is no error in the Bible, there is only error in peoples understanding of the Bible. Noah is a perfect example. Clearly Noah's flood could not have been a world wide flood. So we need to look at the rules for Bible interpretation and go back and look for a fresh new understanding of Noah and his flood that we can support with what is currently known and can be supported with what science knows to be true. God gave us science and God gave us the Bible, so He can not contradict Himself. In fact God watches over the Bible to perform and validate the Word of God in this world. That is why we have to be very careful what we say because He even watches over our words. He makes it easy for us. For example an atheist says there is no God so we know right off that they do not know the truth and there is no truth in them in this regard. It is as easy at that. We do not have to struggle with what they say to try and figure out if it is true or not because they announce right up front that they do not represent the truth because they deny that there is a God. The reason this is all so easy is that there is no middle ground with God. You are in or out. You can not flip flop back and forth. You are for God and the truth or you are against God and against the truth. So everyone knows where you stand.

 
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The Cadet

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3. Creationist scientists might evade what you choose to call peer review because your so- called peer review has proven to be extremely antagonistic to anything that even hints at intelligent design.
Do you know why it's so antagonistic to intelligent design? I'll give you a hint: name a hypothetical universe that would demonstrate that it wasn't intelligently designed.
 
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Derek Meyer

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There is tons of evidence that the Bible is true and that the story of Noah is accurate. This is what domestication is all about and this is how farming spread from the Middle East to the rest of the world.
Really? I haven't seen any evidence that the global flood is accurate. Care to discuss you evidence for such a flood here?
 
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Abraxos

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Evidence 1:
Fossils of sea creatures high above sea level due to the ocean waters having flooded over the continents.

We find fossils of sea creatures in rock layers that cover all the continents. For example, most of the rock layers in the walls of Grand Canyon (more than a mile above sea level) contain marine fossils. Fossilized closed shellfish are even found in the Himalayas.

https://answersingenesis.org/fossils/fossil-record/high-dry-sea-creatures/

Evidence 2:

Rapid burial of plants and animals.

We find extensive fossil “graveyards” and exquisitely preserved fossils. For example, billions of nautiloid fossils are found in a layer within the Redwall Limestone of Grand Canyon. This layer was deposited catastrophically by a massive flow of sediment (mostly lime sand). The chalk and coal beds of Europe and the United States, and the fish, ichthyosaurs, insects, and other fossils all around the world, testify of catastrophic destruction and burial.

https://answersingenesis.org/fossils/fossil-record/the-worlds-a-graveyard/

Evidence 3:

Rapidly deposited sediment layers spread across vast areas.

We find that the sediments in those widespread, rapidly deposited rock layers had to be eroded from distant sources and carried long distances by fast-moving water. For example, the sand for the Coconino Sandstone of Grand Canyon (Arizona) had to be eroded and transported from the northern portion of what is now the United States and Canada. Furthermore, water current indicators (such as ripple marks) preserved in rock layers show that for “300 million years” water currents were consistently flowing from northeast to southwest across all of North and South America, which, of course, is only possible over weeks during a global Flood.

https://answersingenesis.org/geology/sedimentation/sand-transported-cross-country/

Evidence 4:

Sediment transported long distances.

We find that the sediments in those widespread, rapidly deposited rock layers had to be eroded from distant sources and carried long distances by fast-moving water. For example, the sand for the Coconino Sandstone of Grand Canyon (Arizona) had to be eroded and transported from the northern portion of what is now the United States and Canada. Furthermore, water current indicators (such as ripple marks) preserved in rock layers show that for “300 million years” water currents were consistently flowing from northeast to southwest across all of North and South America, which, of course, is only possible over weeks during a global Flood.

https://answersingenesis.org/geology/sedimentation/sand-transported-cross-country/

Evidence 5:

Rapid or no erosion between strata.

We find evidence of rapid erosion, or even of no erosion, between rock layers. Flat, knife-edge boundaries between rock layers indicate continuous deposition of one layer after another, with no time for erosion. For example, there is no evidence of any “missing” millions of years (of erosion) in the flat boundary between two well-known layers of Grand Canyon—the Coconino Sandstone and the Hermit Formation. Another impressive example of flat boundaries at Grand Canyon is the Redwall Limestone and the strata beneath it.

https://answersingenesis.org/geology/grand-canyon-facts/no-slow-and-gradual-erosion/

Evidence 6:

Many strata laid down in rapid succession.

Rocks do not normally bend; they break because they are hard and brittle. But in many places we find whole sequences of strata that were bent without fracturing, indicating that all the rock layers were rapidly deposited and folded while still wet and pliable before final hardening. For example, the Tapeats Sandstone in Grand Canyon is folded at a right angle (90°) without evidence of breaking. Yet this folding could only have occurred after the rest of the layers had been deposited, supposedly over “480 million years,” while the Tapeats Sandstone remained wet and pliable.

https://answersingenesis.org/geology/rock-layers/rock-layers-folded-not-fractured/
 
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