Forum Rule 6 Amendment: Apostle's Creed removed

Serapha · Dec 9, 2003

emerald Dragon said:
This is what The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints has been trying to say. Christ is one in pupose with God, not one in physical body. They are literally father and son, begotten meaning "to be born." We do not calim that God, Christ, and the Holy Ghost are the same physicall person, but Three physical people, uited in common goals, powers, puposes, and possibly blood.

Hi there!

emerald Dragon, that's one of the problems, ... "and possibly blood" ... I am posting a question on the unorthodox forum for your concerns.

~malaka~

I would add, the thread is posted...

http://www.christianforums.com/t75490

~malaka~

emerald Dragon · Dec 9, 2003

I say blood, becasue no one really knows what the Holy Ghost is. We know that Jesus and God are blood related, as they are Father and Son, but the Holy Ghost-now noone knows what he is.

But as I write, I realize that my previous statement is in error, as Jesus is the only begotten, meaning that the Holy Ghost is created, and not blood related.

Oblio · Dec 9, 2003

The Holy Spirit is NOT created. He eternally proceeds from the Father.

Here is more on the Essence of God in the Holy Trinity

One essence in three persons. God is one and God is three: the Holy Trinity is a mystery of unity in diversity, and of diversity in unity. Father, Son, and Spirit are one in essence (homoousios), yet each is distinguished from the other two by personal characteristics. The divine is indivisible in its divisions (Gregory of Nazianzus, Orations, 31, 14). for the persons are united yet not confused, distinct yet not divided (John of Damascus, On the Orthodox Faith, 1, 8 (P.G. 94, 809A)); both the distinction and the union alike are paradoxical (Gregory of Nazianzus, Orations, 25, 17).

From The Orthodox Church - Ware

Shekinahs · Dec 9, 2003

Annabel Lee said:
More exclusionary rules?

Yep yep.

Stormy · Dec 9, 2003

Erwin: I also see that the Nicene Creed says...

We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that some Protestants do not believe that baptism is needed.

Shekinahs · Dec 9, 2003

Stormy said:
Erwin: I also see that the Nicene Creed says...

We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that some Protestants do not believe that baptism is needed.

Protestants do not believe it is needed for the forgiveness of sins. From my Protestant background we see baptism as a profession of faith but not a requirement for your sins to be forgiven. Actually that notion is new to me. Until now I didn't know some people felt that if you are not baptized your sins could not be forgiven :o

Stormy · Dec 9, 2003

Shekinahs said:
Protestants do not believe it is needed for the forgiveness of sins. From my Protestant background we see baptism as a profession of faith but not a requirement for your sins to be forgiven. Actually that notion is new to me. Until now I didn't know some people felt that if you are not baptized your sins could not be forgiven :o

Then by us only using the Nicene Creed, we would lose a lot of our Protestant Christians.

Erwin: It is not working...

Oblio · Dec 9, 2003

The Nicean Creed is not working ...

Stormy · Dec 9, 2003

Oblio said:
The Nicean Creed is not working ...

NO, that is not want I was trying to say. It works just fine for me.

But I do not only consider those who think exactly like me as Christian.

I think that if a person does not believe that baptism is necessary for the forgivenance of sin then he is not a Catholic... but does that also by this board's new standard say that he is not a Christian?

seebs · Dec 9, 2003

Well, keep in mind, many Friends are trinitarian. The lack of a creed on the topic doesn't mean that individuals may not come to believe that. The Friends have no creed at all, so it's very hard to say what individual Friends believe without asking them personally. (Even then, the impossibility of correctly communicating transcendence with language will cramp your style quite a bit.)

So, for instance, I have no real objections to the Nicene Creed, personally, but other people at my Meeting might not be able to assent to it.

seebs · Dec 9, 2003

Stormy said:
Erwin: I also see that the Nicene Creed says...

We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that some Protestants do not believe that baptism is needed.

Traditionally, they can get away with saying it's a spiritual, internal, baptism of faith.

ZoneChaos · Dec 9, 2003

Plus acknowledging one Baptism is stated to clarify that you don't need multiple Baptisms.. however salvation does not hinge on Baptism...

Erwin · Dec 9, 2003

Stormy said:
Then by us only using the Nicene Creed, we would lose a lot of our Protestant Christians.

Erwin: It is not working...

That's not true. The Nicene Creed applies to ALL Protestant denominations.

The baptism section does not state water baptism at all - it can be construed to mean spiritual baptism.

Like I was saying, having the Apostle's Creed mean we have to allow Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses posting in the Christian-only forums, which is not appropriate. The Apostle's Creed is too inclusive.

Oblio · Dec 9, 2003

Like I was saying, having the Apostle's Creed mean we have to allow Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses posting in the Christian-only forums, which is not appropriate. The Apostle's Creed is too inclusive.

Bingo

The Nicean Creed was affirmed 1500 years ago to put to rest just the sort of heresies that are spread today by certain groups. Closed some loopholes, if you will

seebs · Dec 9, 2003

The Nicene Creed reflects a fair number of compromises and political realities of the time, too. It's easy for people to forget that the written words we use to describe the truth are not the truth itself.

Annabel Lee · Dec 9, 2003

If some people are done doing the Pharisee Happy Dance, Id like to state that these exclusionary tactics will in the end hurt everyone.

How many Catholics on this board have ever been told they werent Christian? They do it all the time on certain Rapture sites. You all know which ones I am talking about. Does being called The harlot of Babylon or Mary Worshipping, Statue-kissing Papists ring a bell?

My sister who is a fundamental Christian asked me to join a Christian board last year. I was turned down because they were only accepting born-again members at this time. I had never stated I wasnt born-again but I had entered my denomination as Catholic. Wasnt quite Christian enough for that group.

I see someone suggested that the Society of Friends be excluded too. Isnt this the same religious group that fought against slavery and helped run the Underground Railroad while other more accepted Christian groups were preaching that enslavement of other human beings was biblical?

If you keep kicking people out of the Chrisitan Club, there will soon no one left.

"The blackest billingsgate, the most ungentlemanly insolence, the most yahooist brutality, is patently endured, countenanced, propagated, and applauded. But touch a solemn truth in collision with the dogma of a sect, though capable of the clearest proof, and you will soon find you have disturbed a nest, and the hornets will swarm about your eyes and hand, and fly into your face and eyes."
- John Adams

Shekinahs · Dec 9, 2003

Oblio said:
Bingo

The Nicean Creed was affirmed 1500 years ago to put to rest just the sort of heresies that are spread today by certain groups. Closed some loopholes, if you will

Put together by who and for who? It is not the be all and end all for deciding who is a Christian.

~ShekinahMoon~

Oblio · Dec 9, 2003

Notice that I said affirmed. The Orthodox Catholic Church was an instrument of the Holy Spirit Who worked through the Council of Nicea to affirm those timeless truths set down in the Creed.

It has been the be all and end all for 1500 years of Christianity. If you cannot confess the Creed, you are not a Christian, in the eyes of the Church, and (thankfully) this message board.

MattMMMan17 · Dec 9, 2003

Amen, Oblio.

seebs · Dec 9, 2003

So, people who don't understand the trinity aren't Christian? When did salvation become a test of comprehension of arcane theology?

And, as noted before, the Nicene Creed contains compromises between competing interpretations.

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