Foru.ms - a new beginning and a fresh start (3)

Dying2Live4Christ · Aug 21, 2007

rushingwind62 said:
Erwin is trying to come up with christian principles. Is that secular?The lost aren't going to come to anything with the word christian or church attached to it. This is a way for them to come to a website and A WAY for us to minister to them. The only way it will be a secular website is if all us christians leave. WE are what make the forum what is.

Yes, it is still secular. You can't tell me that most of society tries to be "nice" but it doesn't make them a christian. We were abe to minister to those wanting to know what Christ is all about when it was named Christian Forums. For you to say that we need not to mention Christ in order to have people come to Christ is like saying we need to not put calorie facts on the back of an icecream cone so no one knows its fattening unti they gain weight.

Dying2Live4Christ · Aug 21, 2007

The Bellman said:
No non-believers are offended or feel they are being attacked; that's just nonsense. The site is still a site for people to learn about Christ and to debate. The only thing that has been 'ripped' from you and secularised is the name of the site. Nothing else has been secularised.

Except what you posted was neither a cheap generalisation nor bashing of any kind.

Yet lots and lots of Christians see no spiritual battle, which leads one to the conclusion that the reason I don't see it isn't because I'm not Christian at all. It's because it isn't there.

So this is a secular, non-commitive, socially correct move...made by a Christian at the urging of other Christians. As someone else has said, it sounds like your beef is with other Christians, not us non-believers.

That may well be true, but I see no evidence that it's being done here. All that is being done is 'toning down' the appearance of the site (including its name) to make it more 'friendly' to non-Christians, in an effort to get more of them in. I see no removal of anyone's devotion to Christ.

Of course you do. But nothing that's gone on in this site has affected that right in any way.

Fair enough; I don't think you are.

I think this is something of a furphy. I've never seen Christians as feeling that way at all.

There's no need to stand for that right; you already have it. There are any number of Christian websites out there with a Christian name. You just can't have this one as a Christian websites out there with a Christian name. That's not taking away any right of yours - Erwin is under no obligation to provide you with what you think is your 'right'.

All the arguments are the same. Why should we have to go somewhere new for a christian board? Why should we be kicked out of our domain just because the name is too threatening to non believers.?

infaile · Aug 21, 2007

ravendta said:
Face it - you're here to cause trouble. It's the only reason an athiest would sign up for a Christian board.

Please, for the love of all that is Christlike and good - by mostly anyone's standards! - do not make sweeping, generalised statements like these. I have agreed with most of what you have posted so far, but this is neither a Christian sentiment, nor a fair one.

The Bellman · Aug 21, 2007

Nadiine said:
The only one's who GUESS & can't really know are people who refuse the Bible as God's word.

And you keep ignoring the fact that the people who don't refuse the bible as God's word still disagree, wildly.

Nadiine said:
You're essentially claiming SOMEONE CAN'T KNOW which is why I should "respect' everybody that claims to be a Christian - even when they defy central issues in scripture THAT MAKES US ONE.

No, he's noting the fact that the world's Christians have a long history of disagreeing despite claiming that they are all led by the spirit.

ravendta · Aug 21, 2007

infaile said:
Please, for the love of all that is Christlike and good - by mostly anyone's standards! - do not make sweeping, generalised statements like these. I have agreed with most of what you have posted so far, but this is neither a Christian sentiment, nor a fair one.

Have you seen what the two I've mentioned have been doing? Just about every statement they make is a massively incorrect generalization that portrays Christians in a negative light. It's insulting, rude, arrogant, and uncalled for.

Now, watch them complain that the same has been done to them. Not so nice being on the other end of that boot, is it?

(I don't feel that way about all athiests - I mentioned that in a previous post. The comment was meant to make a point that it doesn't feel good when one does as the two or three in this thread have done to Christians repeatedly)

The Bellman · Aug 21, 2007

ravendta said:
This thread has degenerated into little more than a bunch of athiests gloating over the injustice that has been done here.

This is a simple lie. Nobody has 'gloated' over anything. I have repeatedly stated that I believe the change of name was a terrible move, out of which no good can come.

ravendta said:
There are precious few left who have the emotional strength to battle pointlessly with rude, arrogant, and close-minded people like The Bellman and joebudda (both of which are only here to stir the pot, regardless of the innocence they claim)

Now you descend to insult. From where I sit it's you who are the only rude and arrogant person in this thread.

ravendta said:
I'm tired of the athiests consistantly professing that Christians are such horrible people and then turning around and claiming they've said no such thing - EVEN IN THE FACE OF THEIR OWN QUOTES!

If any atheist had done any such thing, you might have a case.

ravendta said:
If more non-Christians coming to this site means more people like them, then I'm glad I signed up with a different Christian forum. I would be glad to have reasonable discussion and even debate with any athiests (I even offered it to joebudda) but the ones posting in this thread have proven themselves to be beyond reason while at the same time suffering from short-term memory loss (you MUST be if you claim you never said things from your own quotes).

This is just more insults without support. You've shown that "reasonable discussion and even debate with any atheists" is something beyond you.

ravendta said:
Yeah, I know, you're going to pick apart this post too and try to deny everything I've said and then claim I don't know what I'm talking about and yadda yadda yadda - but I don't care anymore.

I will identify lies when you tell them, whether you care or not.

ravendta said:
I'm tired of the holier-than-thou condescending attitude of these people who then turn around and play the innocent act and claim that WE'RE the ones with the holier-than-thou attitude just because we're trying to save OUR OWN FORUM!

The only person I have seen exhibit a holier-than-thou attitude in this thread is you. It is not Christians; it is not non-Christians; it is you.

ravendta said:
Face it - you're here to cause trouble. It's the only reason an athiest would sign up for a Christian board.

Idiotic and false.

ravendta said:
A word of advice to you, Nadiine: You've done all you could. There are those of us who appreciate the effort you've put in here, but don't waste your time with these close-minded arrogant people any more. They're just here to cause trouble, and nothing we do will diffuse it.

And still more insults. Fortunately, Nadiine, while disagreeing with us, has not seen fit to lower herself as you have. If you are actually going - which I doubt - then good riddance.

The Bellman · Aug 21, 2007

Dying2Live4Christ said:
All the arguments are the same. Why should we have to go somewhere new for a christian board? Why should we be kicked out of our domain just because the name is too threatening to non believers.?

You don't. Nobody's kicking you out. You are free to stay. You are also free to leave. But know that the changes you are complaining about were done by Christians, at the instigation of Christians. I know you really want to blame non-believers, but it won't stick. This was entirely done by Christians.

Dying2Live4Christ · Aug 22, 2007

The Bellman said:
You don't. Nobody's kicking you out. You are free to stay. You are also free to leave. But know that the changes you are complaining about were done by Christians, at the instigation of Christians. I know you really want to blame non-believers, but it won't stick. This was entirely done by Christians.

That isn't what I said. Erwin's vision is for this place to attract more non-believers now that Christ's name is gone from the site. That means we are changing to appease non-believers. I understand that it was Christians who changed it and I question their allegiance.

joebudda · Aug 22, 2007

Nadiine said:
I already wrote a post listing the numerous reasons why to "The Bellman", so I'm not retyping it all.
We aren't given some supernatural brain tap where we all automatically turn into robots with the same chip.

You're also assuming that if a person CLAIMS they're a Christian, that they ARE one in fact. According to scripture that I quoted to Bellman, it's not the case.

Yet these are your beliefs. Others also have their beliefs. No one is trying to take away what you identify with. You are the one saying others shouldn't be allowed this same respect.

No one is saying you need to respect anyone else's beliefs, I don't particularity respect what you believe. But I wouldn't take away your freedom to identify with them.

You did'nt have to "say it" - your statement directly implied it.

Please stop with the lying. It is unbecoming.

Do we STOP being human all of a sudden? Why do you guys expect that if you become a follower of the supreme God, that He's automatically giving everyone supernatural programmed brain chips so our humanity & imperfections are completely overriden?

It was you who said that your god gives people ways to know the truth.

Look at the writers of the Bible - they wrote IN THEIR OWN STYLE and wording.. God didn't take their pen and force them to write outside their own character.
Paul wrote in large print, he had an eye condition; God didn't remove that either...
We don't stop being flawed and fallible - we're CHANGED & redeemed, and on a new course.

If you really want to go down the rabbit hole.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/

I refuse to sit here debating how the Bible came to be & was canonized.
I have a hardcover 570 page book explaining it all in great detail - I am NOT reciting the entire history (and quite frankly, it does no good anyways)

I don't blame you, it would only reinforce my point that men peaced together the bible you know today.

And this is why I told you above that you said there was no way to check truth from error /false teachers. As if we're left on our own to guess.
The only one's who GUESS & can't really know are people who refuse the Bible as God's word.

And you are allowed to believe that just as others are allowed their beliefs.

You're essentially claiming SOMEONE CAN'T KNOW which is why I should "respect' everybody that claims to be a Christian - even when they defy central issues in scripture THAT MAKES US ONE.

I am sure you believe this just as others may believe for their own reasons.

Do you just trust that someone is a Doctor if they say so? I HOPE NOT.
Did you stop to think that someone is right & someone is wrong??

To be a doctor requires passing an exam to get a license, So I am not understanding your analogy.

And no, I don't return respect to false teachings, I work to show why it's wrong and ask them to back up their assertions.

And with that, I'm not going into further 'debating' of Christianity here. This is not the proper thread. thanks.

You don't need to respect their beliefs. But to take away what they identify with is not respecting them as a fellow human being. That is where the line is crossed.

GraceInHim · Aug 22, 2007

subscribing

The Bellman · Aug 22, 2007

Dying2Live4Christ said:
That isn't what I said. Erwin's vision is for this place to attract more non-believers now that Christ's name is gone from the site. That means we are changing to appease non-believers. I understand that it was Christians who changed it and I question their allegiance.

No, you are changing to appease Erwin. It hasn't been seen yet that non-believers will come to the site in greater numbers (I personally believe they won't). The sole person being appeased is Erwin - a Christian.

Dying2Live4Christ · Aug 22, 2007

The Bellman said:
No, you are changing to appease Erwin. It hasn't been seen yet that non-believers will come to the site in greater numbers (I personally believe they won't). The sole person being appeased is Erwin - a Christian.

I told you this already. I question his walk with Christ if he is so ready to strip Christ's name from this forum to appease non-believers.

invisible trousers · Aug 22, 2007

Bellman and joebudda she did the exact same thing to me in another thread, making stuff up and then claiming I've said it.

DMagoh said:
There is nothing wrong with a secular forum where anybody can meet and post. However, I joined a "Christian Forum" to post and fellowship with other Christians. It would be kind of like me joining a forum about baseball because I really love baseball. And then one day they change it and it is no longer a baseball forum, but a sports forum, and you now have threads about diving, hockey, roller derby, horse racing, etc... and baseball has a little section somewhere.

But that's not true- nobody has changed their posting habits. There aren't any new restrictions on what you can make topics about.

I don't understand how you can come to your conclusion (other than CaDan's suggestion) because there simply is no evidence which supports that idea.

GraceInHim · Aug 22, 2007

Originally Posted by Dying2Live4Christ

Erwin's vision is for this place to attract more non-believers now that Christ's name is gone from the site.

and that is a good thing.. get ready to preach the good news, in charity and love.. question is, which good news can a non-believer listen to? there are so many different factions of Christianity which differ on many theological stuff..

That means we are changing to appease non-believers. I understand that it was Christians who changed it and I question their allegiance.

Click to expand...

Erwin changed it on his own, his site.. even if something gave him the idea, it is still his action.

And why should we not appease non-Christians on this forum? Make them feel welcome and open gates into the sheep pens? You mean all the sheep on this forum are all white? They all believe the same exact things theologically, sacramentals and so on?

Remember, your unique, just like everyone else in this world.. we all do not think alike

The Bellman · Aug 22, 2007

Dying2Live4Christ said:
I told you this already. I question his walk with Christ if he is so ready to strip Christ's name from this forum to appease non-believers.

He's stripped Christ's name from the forum title in an attempt to spread the gospel. Now you may well think that's a misguided attempt (ie., it won't work), but to question his walk with Christ for it is insulting and beyond arrogant.

*Starlight* · Aug 22, 2007

ravendta said:
There are precious few left who have the emotional strength to battle pointlessly with rude, arrogant, and close-minded people like The Bellman and joebudda (both of which are only here to stir the pot, regardless of the innocence they claim)

I've just finished reading this thread, and the only arrogant and close-minded people I've seen here were definitely NOT The Bellman and joebudda. In fact, I really admire their patience when they keep replying to some really insulting and arrogant posts in a calm and reasonable way.

flicka · Aug 22, 2007

That isn't what I said. Erwin's vision is for this place to attract more non-believers now that Christ's name is gone from the site. That means we are changing to appease non-believers. I understand that it was Christians who changed it and I question their allegiance.

I told you this already. I question his walk with Christ if he is so ready to strip Christ's name from this forum to appease non-believers.

You would be doing yourself a huge favor to stop questioning the allegiance or the faith of others because they do something you don't particularly like. Christianity isn't about labels or names or banners or titles. Some people saw a reason to make a name change, some were being sarcastic about it, and Erwin obviously felt it was the right thing to do for HIM and HIS SITE. That doesn't mean he is less of a Christan, it means he was unhappy with the way things were on this site.

Someone isn't a questionable Christian because they take the Jesus fish off their bumper. It's kind of like that.

PS: Christs name is still all over this site, just not in the title. That doesn't make this place less Christan than it was. Besides, I can think of lots of Christan groups that don't specifically have the name Christ in them. I admit that the name CF was a good identifier and I prefer it to the new name but thats just my taste, not a judgment on anyone.

Letalis · Aug 22, 2007

Dying2Live4Christ said:
I told you this already. I question his walk with Christ if he is so ready to strip Christ's name from this forum to appease non-believers.

I don't understand how you can say this.

You question another's standing before God, you place yourself in a position to judge another's heart, because of the way they choose to run a message board?

Time2BCounted · Aug 22, 2007

GraceInHim said:
and that is a good thing.. get ready to preach the good news, in charity and love.. question is, which good news can a non-believer listen to? there are so many different factions of Christianity which differ on many theological stuff..

Erwin changed it on his own, his site.. even if something gave him the idea, it is still his action.

And why should we not appease non-Christians on this forum? Make them feel welcome and open gates into the sheep pens? You mean all the sheep on this forum are all white? They all believe the same exact things theologically, sacramentals and so on?

Remember, your unique, just like everyone else in this world.. we all do not think alike

I dont understand this. Stipping the name of Christ form the forums in order to draw people to Him. This is exactly OPPOSITE what we are commanded to do, as Christ said "If I be lifted up I will draw all men to me." How is stripping the name lifting it up, and how is accepting universalist doctrine now as 'christian' doctrine going to save a single soul when it damns a soul?

Everything here is just exactly opposite of biblical standard.

Aside from this, how can it be forgotten that these were actual PROMICES that were made that neither of these would happen, first of all, that the Creed would NEVER be removed and secondly the majority would decide the name and it was 60-40 in favor of keeping it.

To me this is packaging fertilizer in an ice cream box.

If promices are made, they should be like a rock unless, he saw that the majority was unhappy with things, in which case perhaps polls ect then would have become useful, and in this case, IF Erwins word would have been kept, we would still be sitting at "Christian Forums" and the universalists would not hace their own subforum and accepted as 'christian'. Their doctrine was a soul damning heresy pre777 and nothing changed except for the fact promices of men were not kept.

I have nothing personal against Erwin at all, but my stand must be for God and for integrity.

elanor · Aug 22, 2007

Originally Posted by Time2BCounted in thread #2
It IS an us and them issue

We as CHRISTIANS (Us who are speaking out) are being FORCED now to compromise doctrine we hold dear that comes from scripture, and this board NOW embraces doctrine saying that Jesus is not the only way, nor is he the only door, nor is He God. Pre 777 this was considered a heresy and false unchristian doctrine because it is anitbiblical... NOW it is legitimized as 'christian' doctrine, and we as christians understand that believing such things will damn a soul for all eternity

Okay, let's stop and think about this for a second. Someone on a messageboard is FORCING you to compromise doctrine you hold dear. One more time, someone on a MESSAGEBOARD is FORCING you to COMPROMISE doctrine you hold dear. Um... I don't think so. It's a messageboard. It has no power over your life unless you decide it's going to. You still have control over what you do and don't believe. You even have control over your computer. No one here is FORCING you to do anything. So for the sake of constructive conversation, how about taking the melodrama down a notch.

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