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Forgiveness: Why such an impossible command?

razzelflabben

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so the only reason I needed to forgive my father for abusing me, was because I judged him...what did I supposedly judge him for or about? I blamed myself most of my life, it's what he taught me to do...I wouldn't even call it abuse for many years, in fact, it wasn't until I figured out to call it what it was, that I began a journey of healing...but, let's talk more about what you say here, where in scripture are we told that God wipes our memories clean? that is, when we forgive or when we don't. In fact, scripture is packed full of passages that tell us to remember, not to forget, so where is the passage that says our memories will be erased like some hard drive on our computer. So before you go down that road, please provide us with scripture.
Only it was my mother, who I can only remember with deep compassion and sadness.
My mother confessed many years later, to having spent my lifetime at home jealous. IOW's she confessed sinning against me, so how was I the judge if I didn't even realize she was sinning against me? Also, if your memories were erased, how is it that you remember your mother with compassion? Compassion isn't necessary if there is no memory of what has occurred. Sadness is the same, why would you have sad memories of your mother if your memories are erased? When I think of people like, my great grandmother, I have joy, not sadness, why? Because she didn't abuse me, she gave me a haven for one week out of the summer every year. I miss her, I grieve that she died as an unbeliever, but when I think of her, it is not with compassion or sadness, but rather with joy and appreciation, seems to me that if you still look at your mother with compassion and sadness, you either haven't forgiven, or your memories don't get erased.
Other than that I have no past memories, it has been completely erased. I only judge righteously, so I do know more than you think.
lol..I didn't suggest you didn't know something about the topic, I said that your words don't match what you claim...
 
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razzelflabben

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yep...circumcision of the heart...if I the second point in the post I started this discussion with.
 
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louise sheinholtz

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I hear your pain and I would like to help you, but your mind is so full of reasons to hate even what I have said to you.
God does not erase thoughts of compassion. God erases hateful thoughts, once He cleanses us.

You are looking for excuses for your unforgiving nature towards your parents. There is a lot of resentment in you that you need to overcome. for it is preventing you from forgiving.
Resentment is a killer, eventually it destroys the mind and body in time.
Look at your past as I have looked at mine, had it not been for what I went through as a child I may have been so satisfied with my life that I would have no need find God. I am thankful for my past, my needs caused me to hunger and search for the truth that would set me free.

Listen, I am not your enemy, your enemy is your resentment, judgements and unforgiveness.
I have lived many years of doing what you are doing, but, one day God answered my cries. But cry I did without my ego getting in the way of feeling sorry for myself or blaming others and my cries have been answered.
Love God and evil thoughts will disappear.

You may prefer sweet talk that appeals to your ego, but, in the long run it is only a superficial cover up.
Louise
 
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louise sheinholtz

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Isaiah 43:18-19

English Standard Version (ESV)

18 “Remember not the former things,
nor consider the things of old.
19 Behold, I am doing a new thing;
now it springs forth, do you not perceive it?
I will make a way in the wilderness
and rivers in the desert.

Cross references:

  1. Isaiah 43:18 : [Jer. 16:14; 23:7]
  2. Isaiah 43:19 : [ch. 42:9; 2 Cor. 5:17; Rev. 21:5]
  3. Isaiah 43:19 : ch. 35:8
  4. Isaiah 43:19 : ch. 41:18; 48:21






English Standard Version (ESV) The Holy Bible, English Standard Version Copyright © 2001 by Crossway Bibles, a division of Good News Publishers.
 
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razzelflabben

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I hear your pain and I would like to help you, but your mind is so full of reasons to hate even what I have said to you.
God does not erase thoughts of compassion. God erases hateful thoughts, once He cleanses us.
what hateful thoughts? An honest discussion of another persons sin against me and God does not equal hate, why would you think it did? Man are you loosing me with your false judgments...so confused!
You are looking for excuses for your unforgiving nature towards your parents. There is a lot of resentment in you that you need to overcome. for it is preventing you from forgiving.
I forgave them long ago and continue to do so on a daily basis...why do you think I haven't? So confused...I haven't forgiven them because I can have an honest look and discussion about how they abused me? wow...many people will tell you that one of the first steps to forgiving abuse, is to call it what it is. In fact, when we look at scripture, reconciliation always begins with an honest look and repentance of sin, that is confession and turning away. So if, I can't look honestly at an abuser, where is the confession and repentance coming from? What's even more troubling with your assertion, comes to us in I Cor. 13 where we are told about Love, the very same Love that Christ gave to us when we were yet sinners...in that passage, we are told that Love rejoices in the truth. That is all truth, even the truth of what another has done. It is not counter (remember I asked for passages to support the idea that our memories were erased and none were given, so lets look at a couple of those that tell us it isn't erased) what we find earlier in the chapter about keeping no record of wrongs. Love is compatible with both, keeping no record and rejoicing in the truth. In fact, what are we told repeatedly in scripture to remember? We are told to remember where we were, what God has done. So, let's take an example, the children of Israel were held as slaves...how can they remember God's deliverance from slavery, if their minds cannot remember that they were slaves? Lol it doesn't work that way, they could only remember what God did, when they remembered the sin that was committed against them. The difference is how they remember. In fact, the children of Israel sang songs, they had an oral history, they had a written history, it was well documented in their culture. Likewise, I have told you that I would not talk about the abuse, only about the healing and forgiveness that God has given. Yet you insist that I talk about the abuse and forget about the rest because in my remembering (God ordained) is evidence that I have not forgiven. Seriously, show me in scripture, where your analysis is the same as God's. You mean like the honest look I have been giving and you have been judging as unforgiveness? wow I really don't understand why you want to fight or what it is you want to fight about...so I guess until you can tell me, you and are are finished after this post.
Listen, I am not your enemy, your enemy is your resentment, judgements and unforgiveness.
since I don't have resentment, judgment, or unforgiveness, that means either I have no enemies, or you are in fact my enemy for trying to create resentment, judgment, and unforgiveness where none exist. interesting that you bring mind into the picture, there is a very powerful tool we are given in scripture for helping our minds to overcome our past, it's found in II Cor. 10:5...where we take our thoughts captive and couple that with Phil. 4:8 where we are told to put the things of God in place of the sinful thoughts. I've seen this work miracles and used this tool when our son died, works wonders for dealing with the thoughts that often sabotage our healing process.
You may prefer sweet talk that appeals to your ego, but, in the long run it is only a superficial cover up.
Louise
I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. In fact, I am in trouble all the time for speaking "harshly" about the truths of God....I'm wondering at this point, if you are confusing me with another poster?
 
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razzelflabben

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no one is remembering the things of old, or considering them...what we are doing is looking at the past and seeing what God did and how He did it...opps, since I don't know what you want to argue about or why, I said I wouldn't respond, sorry.
 
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louise sheinholtz

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no one is remembering the things of old, or considering them...what we are doing is looking at the past and seeing what God did and how He did it...opps, since I don't know what you want to argue about or why, I said I wouldn't respond, sorry.

your mind is made up, if you feel right, go ahead and see where it takes you in time. Excuses are nothing but a rejection of truth. And you are full of them.
Finis
 
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razzelflabben

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your mind is made up, if you feel right, go ahead and see where it takes you in time. Excuses are nothing but a rejection of truth. And you are full of them.
Finis
I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, nor do I see any reference you have provided to passages that tell us when we have forgiven our memories are erased. what I do see, is someone who claims their memories have been erased, actually living in those memories, denying it, then accusing others as if that somehow justifies the lack of scriptural support.

May you find peace from the memories that haunt you...may you grasp how deep, high, wide, and mighty is our Saviors Love...and as you discover the truths of God, may you rest in knowing that His word is true and above reproach in every area of our lives.
 
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razzelflabben

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as I was praying and trying to figure out what the heck your problem is, it dawned on me that maybe your issue was with me saying that I have flashbacks sometimes. Don't know why you wouldn't just come out and say that was your problem, but it is what it is. Wow, do you have it wrong if you are taking issue with flashbacks. But it does bring up an interesting truth about forgiveness.

The very nature of trauma is that there are flashbacks. This is normal, and it has a place in the life that is learning to forgive. If you haven't had flashbacks, it wasn't as traumatic as you might think. Okay, so when I say flashbacks today, after forgiving, I am referring to what Job calls the "visions and dreams that haunt". Remember, Job was a righteous man, and yet he had visions and dreams that haunt...why should we be any different? This is to say, that something triggers the visions of that day and the dreams that invade after a trauma. A few that are my reality is, abandonment, loss of our son, being hit by a train, beatings, molestation, etc. These things are always part of my life and no amount of forgiveness brings my son back. (for example) That does not mean I can't forgive. When I have flashbacks today, there are no faces to the images, only events and the painful reminders. But, look at Phil. 2 and other passages like it (12-13 especially) like salvation, forgiveness is an act of Godliness, as such, it is something we work toward all the time, every single day. Every time the flashbacks come, I choose whether or not I will forgive that moment, that day, or if I will entertain the thoughts and feelings that bombard. It's a daily thing, which is why taking out thoughts captive unto the Lord is so important to the healing of the whole man. When we take our thoughts captive unto the Lord, it includes but is not limited to forgiving this very day. Our memories are not erased as we previously talked about, but in the power of God, the memories can find their proper place in our lives, places like the two stories I related previously about suicidal thoughts and beatings. Those memories have a place in my life, a Godly place, a wise place, it's a place of honor, because in those memories are wonderful truths about God and His amazing Love for a lost little kid that had no hope for the future but one that grew to be a mighty warrior in the Kingdom of God. Praise be to God for "His mercies are new every morning", if they weren't, we could not forgive with a Godly forgiveness.
 
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louise sheinholtz

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I would like to add that, flashbacks are caused by shock. Now what in us is shocked? it is not the God in us, but the evil in us to come back to haunt us.
God does not do that, it is our emotions that are the culprit.

I too lost my son when he was hit by a semi truck. I went through the grief, but I did not judge the drivers of the truck so I felt no judgments towards them. Had I judged them, my conscience would come back to haunt me.

There were times I did judge and my bad memories haunted me.
Bad memories remained until I truly forgave and my past bad memories were washed away.
So judge not, lest we be judged.
 
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razzelflabben

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I would like to add that, flashbacks are caused by shock. Now what in us is shocked? it is not the God in us, but the evil in us to come back to haunt us.
God does not do that, it is our emotions that are the culprit.
really? your gonna tell me that the shock of seeing my son's lifeless body being pulled from a lake, is evil from within me, coming back to haunt me...seriously? Trusting God that it is all going to be okay, doesn't remove the shock of seeing your son died, nor watching and waiting and praying helplessly by to see if he was still alive...come on, that is just nonsense. Emotions, yes, God given emotions that are there with purpose, but evil, no, emotions are not evil, if so that Christ was evil when He prayed in the garden that "this cup would pass from Him"...hog wash, don't buy for a second that Christ's emotions or show of emotions, made the Messiah evil...what evil did I have to do with our son accidentally dieing? At this point, I'm gonna assume you are like one of Job's friends, 'a miserable comfort' to those who have suffered trauma and have pursued a Godly response to that trauma...until you can offer something biblical and helpful, I guess we're done, cause all your doing is judging what you don't know to try to sound like something you are not. Have a wonderful day, oh and for the record, your already forgiven even though you haven't sought to reconcile yourself with me on the false accusations you continue to levy
I too lost my son when he was hit by a semi truck. I went through the grief, but I did not judge the drivers of the truck so I felt no judgments towards them. Had I judged them, my conscience would come back to haunt me.
what judgment? Who am I supposedly judging? Seriously, who am I suppose to be judging here? What makes you think my conscience is haunting me? I spoke of the visions of that day, haunting me, that is to say, that just like Job (again, remember he was considered even by God to be a righteous man) had visions and dreams that came back to haunt him...he wasn't judging, yet the visions and dreams were there...he had a clear conscience but the visions and dreams were there...so I guess at this point, you want us to believe that you are more Godly than Job, Christ, and me, cause you don't admit that there is such a thing as Godly emotions or visions and dreams from trauma. Sorry, I don't buy it, scripture trumps your authority in my book...hope some day you find the peace you are seeking.
There were times I did judge and my bad memories haunted me.
Bad memories remained until I truly forgave and my past bad memories were washed away.
So judge not, lest we be judged.
seriously...today, if you see a picture of your child laying on the road after being hit by a semi, it wouldn't stir emotions in you? Come on, I'm not buying that for a second, not when my Christ had emotions like you say you don't. To boast of being more "godly" than the Christ, is just a bit much for me to stomach...thanks for playing the game though.

wanted to talk about your sins in private but you don't accept PM's...since scripture tells us not to participate in the sins of another by ignoring their sins, let's talk...so far, you have tried to accuse me of not forgiving because of not understanding demons, for having emotions that are evil, and for not having all my memories erased, which by the way, you yourself boast of but demonstrate otherwise, and your refusal to back up any of your claims with scripture. The list of false witness I need to forgive you for seems to be growing rather than shrinking. I wonder what God thinks of false accusations and boasts of being greater than the Messiah? Shall we look at scripture to find out?
 
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louise sheinholtz

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I am not a religious person so I see differently than most people who call them selves Christian.

You don't realize how emotional you are, emotions destroy our well being of mind, body and emotions. You might try meditating.
There are some meditations that put people to sleep. I know of one that will help you to calm down and also make you aware of how to deal with suffering.
Satan is behind all suffering, it may even be at the bottom of how you deal with life. Unless we know how he works we will never be free.
You will learn to see the truth that sets you free by quieting the mind and emotions in order to hear from God and receive revelations. The busy word oriented person does not understand.
It is not for everyone, some aren't ready or may never be depending on the soul of a person, some would rather sleep like some here who would rather take an asperin for their migraines rather than understand it's source. They prefer to cover up the truth about themselves.
Louise
 
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razzelflabben

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I am not a religious person so I see differently than most people who call them selves Christian.
oh...so you try to use a Christ centered argument, without the authority to speak on behalf of Christ...how deceptive of you.
You don't realize how emotional you are, emotions destroy our well being of mind, body and emotions. You might try meditating.
lol...there is absolutely no way, you can tell how emotional I am in this format, except to the point of me speaking out against your inflammatory remarks and false judgments. In fact, as to everything else talked about in this thread, emotions were very far removed. In fact, that is a complaint many people have of me, I remove emotion from an argument, it's the number one reason my husband and I fight when we do, because he argued emotionally, whereas I argue evidence. Your preconceived notions of who I am, might be holding you back from being truthful about this discussion.
There are some meditations that put people to sleep. I know of one that will help you to calm down and also make you aware of how to deal with suffering.
lol...now your pushing meds...you my friend need some serious help. okay, let's explore this for a brief moment with a real life example. After our son died, several people tried to use his death as a weapon to hurt us. One such man, made the accusation that because we believed in the trinity, God brought judgment upon us, and that is why our son died. Now that is just one of the evil things this man did, but it sets the stage for what is to come. Our grief was still very fresh at this time and so his words cut very deeply, in fact, we were still trying to help our children deal with the loss of their brother. None the less, we prayed for the man, I forgave him even though he didn't ask for forgiveness. A few weeks later, we ran into him at the store. Every part of our flesh wanted to rip him to shreds, but since forgiveness comes from the spirit, not the flesh, I took those thoughts captive and decided to forgive him that moment of that day as well. My husband didn't fair as well, in fact, he had to walk away before he came to blows with the man. On the other hand, I stood there and quietly and calmly talked to the man. I explained to him that he was wrong, and even how we know he was wrong. I was able to speak truths to him that no one else that he had hurt had ever been able to do. The power of God, lived through me, through love and forgiveness. But you would judge me as not forgiving, because I remember what he said, obviously I remember his words, I couldn't relate this story if I didn't. You would judge me as unforgiving because I don't "understand how demons work" and a few other choice accusations that you yourself can't even settle on. But the evidence of the situation goes unaddressed, because it doesn't suit your agenda of judgment and pride. Look, you can sit here and judge all day long, you can even make excuses for the rest of your life, but the only judge that matters is God and His judgment is fair and right, and His testimony through the Word He gave to us, is that I have forgiven, and the evidence testifies to the power of God in our lives to forgive.

So, some friendly advice...put your pride in check, stop judging what you do not know, stop pretending to have some amazing revelation you don't have, fall on your face before a holy God, repent of your sins, seek HIm with all your heart, and in that, discover the power of God to forgive, Love, show grace and mercy to the people in your life that least deserve it. When you find God through this kind of humility, it will indeed, change your situation and transform your life, and I am a living example of that transformational power. not a clue who you think you are, but it is obvious from your posts, it isn't who you really are. Romans 12:3
 
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louise sheinholtz

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Your emotional state of mind is obvious. You are not ready to face the truth about yourself. You just stay in that state of mind and it will eventually affect your health.
your emotions are going to destroy any peace of mind possible.

I do see your emotions whether you think so or not. It is as plain as day.
If you think the internet hides anything than you do not know how the Holy Spirit works. You think I can't see where people are coming from?
Think of this, as we speak, not seeing one another, we are souls expressing themselves here, look at it that way for that is the truth. The very soul of a person is revealed whether we see one another or not.
That's how the internet works and that is how God works. We can't see Him, but, we understand when He speaks to us soul to soul.

Have a good day
 
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razzelflabben

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lol...you don't want to know what God is revealing to me about you and your soul...it isnt' flattering. None the less, I told you I would not participate in your sins, so, to that end, I have pointed out that your judgments and false accusations and pride are sinful, as per scriptures command. I tried to do it privately as we are told in Matthew 18, but you refused that. I have already forgiven you, now all I can do is ignore you till you are ready to reconcile.

May you discover God today, may you cling to Him with a passion like you currently have for your own pride.
 
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louise sheinholtz

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razzelflabben

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louise sheinholtz

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