Forgiveness...SPECFIC actions

[sdmsanjose]

Forgiveness SPECIFIC actions

I read on another forum (secular) where they are discussing forgiveness. A summary is that a husband cheated on his wife and she has divorced him even though he is remorseful and did everything that he could to make it up to her.

She is adamant that she is justified in her divorcing him and most agree. However, she speaks often about never forgiven him.

My question to you all is what are your SPECIFIC actions that are involved in forgiveness?

 

[Niffer]

70x7

 

[ValleyGal]

There is a world of difference between simple forgiveness and actual reconciliation. With forgiveness, the actions involved would be to never bring it up again, never holding it against the other person - but that does not mean never feeling hurt by it, and the relationship is still damaged until reconciliation takes place.

 

[akmom]

Well, with something like that, there may be more to it than simple forgiveness. For me, I think that I could forgive adultery fairly easily, if it was followed by honesty, remorse and repentance.

However, there could be tag-along offenses that would complicate forgiveness. What if an STD was acquired? What if a pregnancy resulted? What if reputation was affected? Now it is more than just forgiving the offender for the act. Reconciliation would involve accepting the consequences of their actions. I'm not sure I'd be willing to compromise my health with an STD, or compromise our family with unexpected custody and child support obligations, or have to answer to outsiders on the status of our marriage. So maybe a person can forgive their spouse for the act, but be unwilling to actually reconcile and share in the consequences of that act.

 

[Hetta]

Forgiveness SPECIFIC actions

I read on another forum (secular) where they are discussing forgiveness. A summary is that a husband cheated on his wife and she has divorced him even though he is remorseful and did everything that he could to make it up to her.

She is adamant that she is justified in her divorcing him and most agree. However, she speaks often about never forgiven him.

My question to you all is what are your SPECIFIC actions that are involved in forgiveness?

I don't think that any one person gets to dictate to another when they should forgive. An infidelity is the breaking of a vow, which is one of the most important vows any of us take on this earth, and from reading widely on this topic, I understand that the repercussions can be very long lasting. I don't think that 'remorse' and 'making things up to her' can help. What do you do to 'make up' for breaking your vow? Bring her flowers? Apologize? It doesn't matter. He could spend a million dollars on her, but that's not going to re-write the past because he broke the most important vow that he made to her.

I imagine that it is out of anger and bitterness right now that she says she will 'never' forgive. I am sure that many of us might have said or just thought something like that at some point of our lives. I have thought it, but I got over it, and I did forgive. Because I understood that not forgiving was hurting me far more than the other person. When she comes to that realization, or as she begins to heal, she will most likely forgive him.

As for specific actions - on the part of who? On the part of the one who is offended or the offender? Assuming it is on the part of the offended, then they might want to pray that they can forgive the offender. They can pray for the offender, because it often helps to see the offender through God's eyes - as faulty and damaged, but still loved by God. But I maintain that it takes a huge, superhuman (in fact, non human) leap to forgive a person who has done such a cruel act, and there should be no hurry or pressure placed whether outside from others, or the offended person thinking she must forgive him right away. That wouldn't be true forgiveness. It should come naturally from out of the process of healing.

 

[Autumnleaf]

I realize they did the best they knew how at the time and I've made my share of mistakes too. I love them as they are and accept them as they are. This way forgiveness usually happens before the action against me happens. I'm seldom surprised by what people do so when they do it I've already forgiven them as it was a possible eventuality anyways.

I've also done many things wrong so I figure I shouldn't judge lest I be judged by the same standard I judge others with. I think this makes me a merciful person most of the time.

 

[sdmsanjose]

My question to you all is what are your SPECIFIC actions that are involved in forgiveness?

With forgiveness, the actions involved would be to never bring it up again, never holding it against the other person


Require the adultery to be “honesty, remorse and repentance.”


pray that they can forgive the offender. They can pray for the offender


Realizing that you have made mistakes also and use the scripture “Judge not lest ye be judged”

I would like to add a few specific actions. One action would be by an act of your will decide that you are going to obey God and forgive even if your emotions do not feel like it. Another action would be to believe that God will reward you for forgiving. Finally pray to God to help you forgive.




I like what Hetta said below and that is why I think that to forgive it takes you and God.

By Hetta
But I maintain that it takes a huge, superhuman (in fact, non human) leap to forgive a person who has done such a cruel act

By AKMOM
So maybe a person can forgive their spouse for the act, but be unwilling to actually reconcile and share in the consequences of that act.

I think that the one that was offended is perfectly within their right to NOT reconcile and share in the consequences. Forgiveness, in the case of adultery, does not require you to reconcile or share in the consequences.


Are there any other SPECIFICS in scripture that we have not covered?

 

[Hahner Reid]

Honestly? For me it begins with making a conscious choice to forgive. Everything else I do stems from that. It leads how I treat him everyday WHILE I'm forgiving him. It keeps me on the forgiveness track, rather than letting my feelings take over and act like a wild woman.

It think deciding to forgive has to happen first, and is the most important action step.

 

[mkgal1]

Forgiveness SPECIFIC actions

I read on another forum (secular) where they are discussing forgiveness. A summary is that a husband cheated on his wife and she has divorced him even though he is remorseful and did everything that he could to make it up to her.

She is adamant that she is justified in her divorcing him and most agree. However, she speaks often about never forgiven him.

My question to you all is what are your SPECIFIC actions that are involved in forgiveness?

I wonder if when she says she's never forgiven him.....if she really means she feels she can no longer *trust* him (which is entirely different).

This is such an area of confusion (especially within the church, it seems). It seems that the definition of "forgiven" is more in lines with what this lady has been led to believe (that the offense is brushed aside, as if never occurred, and everyone moves on forgetting it ever happened).

I just mentioned this in another thread (so...sorry for the redundancy) but to me...the key thing to keep in mind about forgiveness is that it doesn't mean that what was done was "okay". The offense can still be something horribly wrong and the pain suffered was real---none of that changes. I don't think it's about "specific actions" as much as it's a heart issue. I believe we are transferring the wrath and vengeance (payment for the offense) over to God. Vengeance isn't ours. That allows us to be free from bitterness.

So....in a nutshell.....it's taking a person off of our "hook" of vengeance and placing them (figuratively) onto God's "hook" to deal with. I believe we can rest assured that He will deal with them in the best way.

 

[sdmsanjose]

Originally Posted by sdmsanjose http://www.christianforums.com/t7826644/#post65775532
Forgiveness SPECIFIC actions

I read on another forum (secular) where they are discussing forgiveness. A summary is that a husband cheated on his wife and she has divorced him even though he is remorseful and did everything that he could to make it up to her.

She is adamant that she is justified in her divorcing him and most agree. However, she speaks often about never forgiven him.

My question to you all is what are your SPECIFIC actions that are involved in forgiveness?


By MK
I wonder if when she says she's never forgiven him.....if she really means she feels she can no longer *trust* him (which is entirely different).

This is such an area of confusion (especially within the church, it seems). It seems that the definition of "forgiven" is more in lines with what this lady has been led to believe (that the offense is brushed aside, as if never occurred, and everyone moves on forgetting it ever happened).

I just mentioned this in another thread (so...sorry for the redundancy) but to me...the key thing to keep in mind about forgiveness is that it doesn't mean that what was done was "okay". The offense can still be something horribly wrong and the pain suffered was real---none of that changes. I don't think it's about "specific actions" as much as it's a heart issue. I believe we are transferring the wrath and vengeance (payment for the offense) over to God. Vengeance isn't ours. That allows us to be free from bitterness.

So....in a nutshell.....it's taking a person off of our "hook" of vengeance and placing them (figuratively) onto God's "hook" to deal with. I believe we can rest assured that He will deal with them in the best way.

MK
I do think that specific actions by the offended do have a part in the forgiveness process. However, I do think that you brought out a valid point in that forgiveness DOES NOT mean the offense is oK and that the offended must forgt that it ever happened.

So that you all get a little more infomation I am printing below some of the OP posts. I will call her “Wife of the Cheater”

By wife of cheater
I never thought my husband would cheat on me. I loved him so much. And he loved me too. I know he did. But after 5 years of marriage, he cheated.

I'm not going into all the sordid details, but we definitely had a strong relationship for a long time. We were both done with college, working in professional jobs, before we decided to get married. We had dated lots of people in high school and college, and figured that we had seen everything enough to know that we were made for one another.

After he cheated, I tried HARD to give reconciliation a real try. I did IC and MC, read all the books, etc. But in the end, I decided to divorce him and start over.

All couples who have reconciled after infidelity will tell you that the affair will ALWAYS be there, in the back of your mind. Some people refer to this as "our pet white elephant". You'll never truly get over the affair. That white elephant will always be there, clearly visible in every room or location you're at when you're together. The "mind movies" will be hard to suppress. Even impossible. For the rest of your life.

I found that out for myself. And after 3 HARD years of trying to reconcile, I realized I was fighting a losing battle.

I had NO intention of dealing with a pet white elephant for the rest of my life. And frankly, I think anyone who is/can must have very low self esteem. I sure did. But not any more.

Bash me if you want. Maybe I deserve it. But pet white elephants suck, and should not be tolerated.

So, finally, the point of this post is for me to advise betrayed spouses to reject reconciliation, and start over with someone who would really love you, and never stab you in the back by cheating on you.


Yes, my XH tried hard to R. He was truly remorseful, as far as I could tell, but I still couldn't get over it. And I'm glad I realized it; although I wasted 3 years of my life before I did.


My H tried hard to R. And so did I. But honestly, the disrespect he showed me in hurting me in the worst way possible was just not something I could get over. Why? Because I'm better than that. And anyone who would hurt me in that way doesn't deserve me.


I was a good and loyal wife. And I have a lot to offer someone. And like I read somewhere else on the web site, I decided that if I was ever going to get hurt again like that, it would be with someone who had never hurt me before.

The "white elephant" was the CONSTANT reminder of what my H did. I just never could get it out of my mind for more than 5 or 10 minutes. And why should I have to try? I'm not the one who brought this on, my H did!


But the truth was he CHOSE to hurt the most loyal person in his life in the most hurtful way possible. That's the REAL truth. He CHOSE it.

And I'm supposed to forgive him? Not hardly.


I've been through the "no choice but to reconcile" mindset. It was horrible. It was my H who brought this on us, and yet I was the one who had to do the real heavy lifting of R. It was a screwed up period of my life.

Once I saw that I had choices, and started regaining self esteem, and told my POS H to go to hell and stay, I felt like a newer, freer person. And that feeling still remains, even as I learn it's OK to date again, to have sex again, and maybe one day fall in love again.

The few months after my divorce have been exponentially happier than the 3 years after DDay while I was trying to R.



My next question for you is what is your specific definition of forgiveness? See below.



By wife of cheater

I guess sort of a biblical definition, although I'm not particularly religous: To forgive someone of something means to "remember that thing against that person no more".

And I knew I could never do that in my H's case. I could never NOT remember that against him.



I knew all along that I could never forgive my H for what he did. I would always remember it, and I just could never forgive that. I couldn't get over it. I don't understand why that's not a good answer. I knew I could never, ever forgive him. And I wasn't going to waste my life on triggers, triggers, triggers. And many people on this site refer to the "white elephant". You're the only person I've encountered here that doesn't know exactly what it means. It's the never-ending reminder of what my POS H did. Mind movies. Triggers.

 

[ValleyGal]

Stan, one thing stands out for me above all others from her post:

Yes, my XH tried hard to R. He was truly remorseful, as far as I could tell, but I still couldn't get over it. And I'm glad I realized it; although I wasted 3 years of my life before I did.

My H tried hard to R. And so did I. But honestly, the disrespect he showed me in hurting me in the worst way possible was just not something I could get over. Why? Because I'm better than that. And anyone who would hurt me in that way doesn't deserve me.

First, the OP figures her attempts to reconcile were a waste of her time. I suggest that she also wasted three years of his time. That mindset alone tells me that she is indeed correct - it was a waste of time. Why would she waste everyone's time? Or why wouldn't she instead say that since reconciliation is God's will, that even if she could not reconcile, making the attempt was still the right thing to do, and the right thing to do is never a waste of time.

The second comment shows her character. She thinks she's better than that, deserves better than that, and is above such behaviour. This is a character defect of pride and self righteousness, and I hope for her sake, she addresses these defects. However, she admits to not being particularly religious, so I guess that point is not applicable and should be judged by the world's standards rather than Gods...and by that standard, I would have to agree with her....adultery is a very painful betrayal.

But if you interact with her, it might be a good time to talk about the nature of forgiveness....it's not a matter of "remembering them no more" as much as it is not holding it against them, not bringing it up, not pursuing vengeance. It might be a good way to share the mercy/grace of the Lord Jesus, and how he now sees us with the robe of righteousness. Iow, he does not see our sin anymore, but he sees the righteousness of the one who paid for our sin-debt. His love covers over a multitude of sins, just as in reconciliation, our love can also cover over a multitude of sins - especially when there is genuine repentance and the penance of rebuilding the trust in the relationship.

But reconciling can happen whether they are still married or not, and they don't have to get married again if there is reconciliation. Relationships can be reconciled. But reconciliation also does not mean allowing him to get away with it or putting herself into a position where it could happen again. Reconciliation is not condoning the behaviour....all it is, is trying to reconcile the relationship, not the behaviour. There is that old fallacy that we need to "forgive and forget" but forgetting only condemns one to repeating the same behaviour. We need to remember so as to prevent history from repeating itself.

 

[mkgal1]

I understand what she's talking about when she mentions "the elephant in the room". I don't think that necessarily means she hasn't forgiven him.....but more, she hasn't recovered from his affair. There are things that would need to be worked out in order for her to look back on what happened in a different light. It's not reasonable to expect to NEVER remember again---it's a part of reality---part of their history. She could look back with it bringing up different feelings than hurt and betrayal---if it were all reconciled (and that doesn't sound like it truly was).

So......what she's talking about is "recovery" (I think).....not forgiveness. Trust and respect have to be re-established.

I think this Christian psychologist has a great outlook on how to go about the process of truly recovering. What she's calling the "elephant in the room" is this:

The unresolved trauma of the adultery continues to separate them. They're running away from the trauma because neither one really wants to face it and deal with it. After the honeymoon, they'll crash and burn. All these consequences I've described will happen. Their attempt to run from the adultery, an attempt often encouraged by a counselor or pastor, will fail. The adultery will haunt them for the rest of their marriage.~ BRING YOUR MARRIAGE BACK FROM THE DEAD

And the specific steps for recovery.......Dr. Clarke lays them out:

To heal from a trauma, you must turn and face it directly. Go over and over the details. Feel and express your emotions. Relive the pain. Process it over and over and over. Go through the stages of grief.

Here are the trauma recovery steps I gave Bob and Susie:

Step One: Bob will tell Susie everything about his adultery--verbally and in writing.



Step Two: Bob will write the Document.

Bob will put down on paper a detailed narrative of the entire affair: how it started, how it developed, the excuses and rationalizations he used to justify it, what he and the paramour talked about, where they went, what they did together, where they had sex, and how many times they had sex. The only exception is the gory details of the sex. For example, he will not discuss what they did in sex.

Bob will read the Document in the second session.

Step Three: Susie will write a Document of Response

She will write Bob an honest, heartfelt description of what his adultery has done to her. It will be her gut-level response to his sin. She won't hold back. She will--emotionally speaking--throw up on paper.

Susie will read her document of response in the third session.

Step Four: The Mode

For as long as it takes, usually three to eight months, Bob and Susie will have completely honest, direct, and intense conversations about Bob's adultery. Susie will vent her emotions whenever she wants and however she wants. Bob will listen, reflect, and say "I'm sorry" a million times. Susie will ask questions, and Bob will answer every question with kindness, patience, and humility.

This process heals Bob because he confesses his sin, faces it, and finds out why he did it. This process heals Susie because she knows exactly what happened and can work through it. This process heals the marriage because respect is restored, they learn how to communicate on a deep level, they learn how to resolve conflict, and they create real intimacy.

 

[mkgal1]

On the topic of "forgetting". I think Philippians demonstrates that doesn't mean amnesia, but more of a change in thinking about the past.

Paul wrote in Philippians 3:

But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind (verse 13)

but, earlier, had written:

put no confidence in the flesh— though I myself have reason for confidence in the flesh also. If anyone else thinks he has reason for confidence in the flesh, I have more: circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee; as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to righteousness under the law,[c] blameless. (verses 3-6)

So....Paul can recall details about his past---it's just that he looks at them differently. I think that's what happens when we've recovered from betrayal. The "elephant in the room" is no longer there---because our perception has been healed (and it's no longer separating the couple any longer). IOW......it has no power to divide. But that's all "recovery".....not "forgiveness" (those are two different things).