Forgive and Forget

[Dream]

When my neighbor sins against me, I can forgive them, but how on Earth do I forget it?

There have been some things done to me that I just would not be able to forget, no matter how hard I try.

Are those with a repressed memory the only ones that are truly forgiving and forgetting?

 

[geocajun]

you don't have to forget it.. in fact, you don't have to forgive them if they don't show any remorse, or ask for it. Use God as your role model when it comes to forgiveness.
Also consider that you will be much happier if you are a "marginal thinker" - that is you only think about what people have done for/to you recently.

 

[Dream]

in fact, you don't have to forgive them if they don't show any remorse, or ask for it. Use God as your role model when it comes to forgiveness.

Didn't Jesus forgive those who crucified Him? I don't remember them showing remorse or asking for forgiveness.

 

[geocajun]

Didn't Jesus forgive those who crucified Him? I don't remember them showing remorse or asking for forgiveness.

He prayed for their forgiveness.

Does Jesus forgive you for your sins if you don't ask for it or show remorse?

 

[PolskiKrol]

When you go to confession you have to repent first before we are forgiven by God. And we sould follow God's precedent.

 

[Alexis OCA]

I'm no saint and I don't pretend to be. I agree with Heine:

"Mine is a most peaceable disposition. My wishes are: a humble cottage with a thatched roof, but a good bed, good food, the freshest milk and butter, flowers before my window, and a few fine trees before my door; and if God wants to make my happiness complete, he will grant me the joy of seeing some six or seven of my enemies hanging from those trees. Before their death I shall, moved in my heart, forgive them all the wrong they did me in their lifetime. One must, it is true, forgive one's enemies - but not before they have been hanged." - Heine

I posted that recently. Promise not to again any time soon.

 

[plainswolf]

It's almost impossible to 'forget' but it is certainly not impposible to 'forgive'. But you must separate the two, many fail to do this, believing that forgiving is also to forgetting, this is not always so.

To remember it, especially if painful, is a cross to bear, and as such the best thing to do is to offer it up for love of God as a penance. In this way you gain everlasting treasure from bearing this, and all crosses in life.

J.M.J.
plainswolf

 

[Dream]

He prayed for their forgiveness.

True, but why would anybody ask God to forgive their enemies if they themself didn't forgive their enemy.

Does Jesus forgive you for your sins if you don't ask for it or show remorse?

I couldn't tell you. I don't know the thought-processes of God.

But didn't Jesus preach "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us?" Why didn't Jesus say "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us and show remorse?"

 

[Carrye]

True, but why would anybody ask God to forgive their enemies if they themself didn't forgive their enemy.

Sometimes the person needs the grace to forgive as well.

But didn't Jesus preach "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us?"

IMO, the key word there is 'as'. I've always been interested in this, and have wanted to write a paper on it, but I haven't gotten that far yet. It seems to me this could be rephrased as "forgive us our trespasses in the same way that we forgive those who trespass against us". In a certain way, it seems that we are forgiven in proportion to what we forgive. ... or at least that plays a role. There's scriptural support for this too, as I see it, and I wrote a paper about that last semester if you're interested.

 

[geocajun]

True, but why would anybody ask God to forgive their enemies if they themself didn't forgive their enemy.

one does not include or preclude the other. I can pray that God forgive someone while not forgiving them. Is that so inconceivable?

I couldn't tell you. I don't know the thought-processes of God.

well, fortunately as a Catholic, you can. Just read the parts of the CCC about forgiveness, and Sacramental Confession.

But didn't Jesus preach "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us?" Why didn't Jesus say "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us and show remorse?"

Jesus only forgives us, if we ask for it. "Praying forgive us, as we forgive those" would only apply to your argument if someone asked us to forgive them and we did not. In that case, we would have no right to ask God to give us mercy.

 

[Dream]

IMO, the key word there is 'as'. I've always been interested in this, and have wanted to write a paper on it, but I haven't gotten that far yet. It seems to me this could be rephrased as "forgive us our trespasses in the same way that we forgive those who trespass against us". In a certain way, it seems that we are forgiven in proportion to what we forgive. ... or at least that plays a role. There's scriptural support for this too, as I see it, and I wrote a paper about that last semester if you're interested.

Yes, so wouldn't it be better to forgive our enemies who sin but show no remorse?

If God forgave us the same way that we forgive our neighbor, I would think it would be the best thing if we forgive our neighbor unconditionaly.

I can't imagine that it does harm when I forgive unconditionally.

 

[Carrye]

Yes, so wouldn't it be better to forgive our enemies who sin but show no remorse?

If God forgave us the same way that we forgive our neighbor, I would think it would be the best thing if we forgive our neighbor unconditionaly.

I can't imagine that it does harm when I forgive unconditionally.

Harm, no. Does it teach the person anything? No. Does it do you any good? Maybe.

Just a few thoughts.

 

[Dream]

one does not include or preclude the other. I can pray that God forgive someone while not forgiving them. Is that so inconceivable?

Actually, it is. I don't understand how you could have the heart to ask God for their forgiveness, but not have the heart to forgive them yourself.

well, fortunately as a Catholic, you can. Just read the parts of the CCC about forgiveness, and Sacramental Confession.

2844 Christian prayer extends to the forgiveness of enemies, transfiguring the disciple by configuring him to his Master. Forgiveness is a high-point of Christian prayer; only hearts attuned to God's compassion can receive the gift of prayer. Forgiveness also bears witness that, in our world, love is stronger than sin. The martyrs of yesterday and today bear this witness to Jesus. Forgiveness is the fundamental condition of the reconciliation of the children of God with their Father and of men with one another.

1462 Forgiveness of sins brings reconciliation with God, but also with the Church. Since ancient times the bishop, visible head of a particular Church, has thus rightfully been considered to be the one who principally has the power and ministry of reconciliation: he is the moderator of the penitential discipline. Priests, his collaborators, exercise it to the extent that they have received the commission either from their bishop (or religious superior) or the Pope, according to the law of the Church.

Am I missing something?

Jesus only forgives us, if we ask for it. "Praying forgive us, as we forgive those" would only apply to your argument if someone asked us to forgive them and we did not. In that case, we would have no right to ask God to give us mercy.

So that means it's wrong to forgive an unrepentant enemy?

 

[geocajun]

Am I missing something?

you missed the part where it said you must forgive those who don't repent..

So that means it's wrong to forgive an unrepentant enemy?

nobody said that... I only said you did not have to.

now I am done arguing this... its going nowhere. Its good to forgive, knock yourself out with it... just know that you are not REQUIRED to forgive anyone who is not repentant of their sins.

 

[Dream]

you missed the part where it said you must forgive those who don't repent..

nobody said that... I only said you did not have to.

now I am done arguing this... its going nowhere. Its good to forgive, knock yourself out with it... just know that you are not REQUIRED to forgive anyone who is not repentant of their sins.

I wasn't aware that we were arguing.

I am inquiring where in the Catechism it says it is not necessary to forgive those who are unrepentant. I couldn't find anything of the sort so I was asking where it is located.

 

[geocajun]

DT, are you asserting that you are obligated to forgive those who are unrepentant?
The CCC does not list the things we are not obligated to do...

 

[Dream]

Does it do you any good? Maybe.

So I don't see why anybody would not want to forgive unconditionally if some good might come out of it.

 

[Dream]

DT, are you asserting that you are obligated to forgive those who are unrepentant?

No.

The CCC does not list the things we are not obligated to do...

So how did you come to your conclusion in your first post?

 

[geocajun]

So how did you come to your conclusion in your first post?

by looking at what God does, and seeing no other reason to believe must behave differently.

 

[Benedicta00]

When my neighbor sins against me, I can forgive them, but how on Earth do I forget it?

There have been some things done to me that I just would not be able to forget, no matter how hard I try.

Are those with a repressed memory the only ones that are truly forgiving and forgetting?

You don’t have to forget if you can’t. You don’t have to like, accept, condone any bad thing someone does to you. You can dislike the person even and not want them to be around you ever again. What you have to do is wish them no ill will. That is what forgiving someone is, wishing what is good for their soul and what is fair and just and not wishing any evil come to them.