Forgetting.

lawtonfogle · Jun 2, 2008

Something cantata mentioned made me start pondering the idea, and while this may not be the best area as far as topics go, I think this is a pretty good area to discuss over the idea.

Can someone possible choose to forget something.

I'm talking about something specific, and not because of just standard forgetting. I knew a fair amount of Spanish, but because I didn't study, I forgot not. Now, say one piece of it, oh, lets just say 'Hola'. That I remember, and every time I try to forget it, I remind myself of it. Spanish as a whole I forgot not because I tried too, but because I didn't try to remember. So, is it possible for me to force myself to forget one thing?
And a possibly different question, is it possible for me to overwrite one thought (instead of thinking 'dog' means dog, I overwrite 'dog' to mean cat)?

Corey · Jun 2, 2008

Quick! Do not think about White Bears! In fact, just sit there and try not to think about white bear. Give it a few minutes and then scroll down.

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So...on a scale from 1 to 5 how successful were you? 1=White Bears were all I could think about; 5=they never once popped into my head; 3=White Bears appeared occasionally.

Athene · Jun 2, 2008

People have the capacity to block out traumatic events, I'm not sure that is the same as making themselves forget though...

quatona · Jun 2, 2008

lawtonfogle said:
Something cantata mentioned made me start pondering the idea, and while this may not be the best area as far as topics go, I think this is a pretty good area to discuss over the idea.

Can someone possible choose to forget something.

No. Forgetting is, by definition, an unintentional process.

I'm talking about something specific, and not because of just standard forgetting. I knew a fair amount of Spanish, but because I didn't study, I forgot not. Now, say one piece of it, oh, lets just say 'Hola'. That I remember, and every time I try to forget it, I remind myself of it.

Yes, that´s the "Don´t think of a pink elephant" issue.

Spanish as a whole I forgot not because I tried too, but because I didn't try to remember. So, is it possible for me to force myself to forget one thing?

Let alone that "I force myself" is a funny concept (What in me forces what in me?), intentionally and consciously eradicating a memory is not possible, and "forgetting" wouldn´t be an appropriate term for that, anyway.
There is, however, the psychological phenomenon of "forgetting" an extremely intense negative encounter, but treating that process as if it were a conscious "choice" doesn´t do justice to it.

And a possibly different question, is it possible for me to overwrite one thought (instead of thinking 'dog' means dog, I overwrite 'dog' to mean cat)?

Why sure. I do it all the time. It´s not essentially different from learning a second language. The meaning of words is arbitrary, and it can be arbitrarily changed.
On another note, intentionally replacing an idea by another is way easier than simply eradicating an idea. Positively formulated goals and all that...

Bombila · Jun 2, 2008

It's possible to overwrite, alter, and manufacture from whole cloth memories. I've done all three, unintentionally and intentionally.

I used to tell a funny anecdote, which originally happened to another person. But telling it was purely to amuse people, so I began telling it as if it happened to me, so as to eliminate irrelevant preliiminaries. Years passed, and one day while telling it, I suddenly realized that I had come to believe it really did happen to me, had believed it did for years, could visualize the setting, the circumstances, my reactions: it had become my memory.

I've been much more careful with my memory since then, especially as I've reached an age where forgetting something for a moment is fraught with warning.

Bombila · Jun 2, 2008

And now I can't stop thinking about white bears: curse you, Corey!

keith99 · Jun 2, 2008

I have chosen not to remember. But that was at the beginning, e.g. I decided to not put somethign into long term memory. I know I heard it, but I do not remember.

FYI it was the real name of 2 celebrity types. I doubt they woul dmind me remembering, but I considered retaining the information an possible invasion of privacy.

As W.C. Fields said 'I can risist anythign except temptation.' In this case knowing their real names woul dhave impressed some people, I removed any temptation.

quatona · Jun 2, 2008

I have chosen to forget something but unfortunately I can´t remember what it was.

Beanieboy · Jun 2, 2008

I don't think it is possible to forget, nor do I think that you should. Even if someone wronged you, you should forgive, but not forget, nor bring it up again. However, you learn from even negative experiences.

However, it is possible to remember things that never happened. There is a technique where you can simply create a memory that didn't happen. Let's say that you had a bad childhood. You can learn a false memory, by creating it, and thinking about it. if it helps you, it may be a good thing.

CCGirl · Jun 2, 2008

People in abusive situations (child, spouse, etc) seem to forget what happened to them. However, this is terribly unhealthy because you have let the memory sit way in the back of your brain, festering, until it can no longer be held in. Then comes the dangerous part. You are sitting on a powder keg of pentup, unresolved memories.

So yes, it is possible to "forget" things, if only for awhile.

mpok1519 · Jun 2, 2008

I forget alot of stuff. But I also have a selective memory. In a poker game its good to have a good memory of people's tendencies; but its also good to forget that time one lost to runner runner straight flush draws in a game of 8 stud.

Its good to not replay things on one's head over and over and over especially if they were traumatic; but its good to remember what we learned from that experience, and the next step is to figure out how to prevent that from happening.

Reraise all-in pre-fourth street.

<< using poker analogies.

in reality, as in poker one can make anything seem as one wants; the truth only reveals itself when one has called you on it. So as in life, as in poker, don't lie, because bluffing will break one of their own ambitions.

Corey · Jun 3, 2008

Bombila said:
And now I can't stop thinking about white bears: curse you, Corey!

Mwu-hahahahaha!

Corey · Jun 3, 2008

CCGirl said:
People in abusive situations (child, spouse, etc) seem to forget what happened to them. However, this is terribly unhealthy because you have let the memory sit way in the back of your brain, festering, until it can no longer be held in. Then comes the dangerous part. You are sitting on a powder keg of pentup, unresolved memories.

So yes, it is possible to "forget" things, if only for awhile.

Then you get rebound effects. What happens is that in the process of suppressing information, you paradoxically increase its availability in the mental space after the effect of suppression is removed (and even while suppression is attempted-hence the inability to not think about white bears when asked to).

Robbie_James_Francis · Jun 4, 2008

I don't think you can consciously choose to forget something, and even if it was possible I wouldn't recommend it. It's only a temporary solution that leads to bigger problems.

cantata · Jun 4, 2008

No, I don't think it's possible.

It may be possible to over-learn things, though. The context in which we were talking about forgetting was changing one's sexual orientation. I said that I couldn't forget what was attractive about men when I decided to be a lesbian, and that I don't think, now, that I could forget what is attractive about women.

It's possible, though, that I could learn not to want to have sex with women (or men) through some other learning process. If I learnt something about having sex with women that made me think having sex with them would be extremely dangerous, for example, perhaps that might override my feelings of being attracted to them.

Of course I don't think trying to learn not to want to have sex with women is a worthwhile activity. But I do think that trying to learn not to be afraid of spiders, for example, could be worthwhile.

lawtonfogle · Jun 4, 2008

cantata said:
No, I don't think it's possible.

It may be possible to over-learn things, though. The context in which we were talking about forgetting was changing one's sexual orientation. I said that I couldn't forget what was attractive about men when I decided to be a lesbian, and that I don't think, now, that I could forget what is attractive about women.

It's possible, though, that I could learn not to want to have sex with women (or men) through some other learning process. If I learnt something about having sex with women that made me think having sex with them would be extremely dangerous, for example, perhaps that might override my feelings of being attracted to them.

Of course I don't think trying to learn not to want to have sex with women is a worthwhile activity. But I do think that trying to learn not to be afraid of spiders, for example, could be worthwhile.

While that may have been the context it came from, I am now speaking of the general case. Forget sexuality, can someone choose to forget a number they happen to remember, or that 12*11 = 132... (ok, so I don't have that one remember, I just working it out in my head...).

cantata · Jun 4, 2008

lawtonfogle said:
While that may have been the context it came from, I am now speaking of the general case. Forget sexuality, can someone choose to forget a number they happen to remember, or that 12*11 = 132... (ok, so I don't have that one remember, I just working it out in my head...).

Not deliberately, no.

They could deliberately find a hypnotist to help them to forget it. I'm not sure self-hypnosis to forget is possible, though.

Pogue · Jun 4, 2008

I think in the case of languages, you can indirectly choose to forget grammatical structures and vocabulary. I did a short course in Russian, but because I chose not to keep going over the material once the course had finished, I've now forgotten almost all of it, and it was like the course never took place. Even when I think 'Quick! Think of a Russian word!' I can't come up with any that I didn't know before the course.
This might only be the case with really new languages, though. After 7 years of studying German, I would find it much harder to forget.
I'd write about things other than languages, but I don't know about anything else

Emmy · Jun 4, 2008

Dear lawtonfogle. I don`t know if this will help, but it always helps me. Sometimes I have things on my mind, which just won`t leave me. I think I have managed to push them to the back of my mind, and then they are back again. At times I can`t even sleep, for thinking my thoughts. I have truly found a good answer, and it always works. I try and imagine Jesus on the cross, and then I leave my thoughts at His Feet. A Christian friend told me, and I must admit that it took several tries, but it got better and better. Now I just leave the things I cannot change, and want to forget, at the Lord`s Feet. AND I never forget to ask Jesus to deal with them, and help me to forget them. And I never forget to thank the Lord. I say this humbly and with love, lawtonfogle. Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ.

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