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Forcing belief down another's throat.

PeterMaclellan

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A common shout heard from the battlements of the pro-life and anti-gay movements are that secular liberals are somehow trying to shove their beliefs and practices down the throats of good honest Americans. This is completely ridiculous. Feel free to think Abortion is wrong, but until legislation is passed forcing you to have an Abortion against your will, were not forcing it down anyones throat. Whether or not a woman has an Abortion DOES NOT AFFECT YOU AT ALL. Make all the arguments about it's immorality you want, but don't do something so stupid as to claim by supporting abortion rights were somehow shoving abortion down anyones throat.

Same goes for homosexuality. If a homosexual couple in a long term relationship decide to get married, the only difference is when you see them walking down a street holding hands, they might each have a wedding ring on. How is that shoving it down your throats? Argue about the morality of it all you want, but don't pretend like were forcing you to do anything.
 

Maren

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I'm reminded of these cartoons:

addiscartoon.jpg



idt20050418bigotry.gif
 
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PassionFruit

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Obviously the best way to fix ourselves is to force others to do what we say. I don't know. I have trouble understanding people of my religion.

I can understand, I mean when I was a Christian, I was always taught to be humble when there is a time when you witness to people. But, I guess certian Christians weren't taught being humble. Even though Christianity requires for them to do so.

Oh well.
 
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Verv

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A common shout heard from the battlements of the pro-life and anti-gay movements are that secular liberals are somehow trying to shove their beliefs and practices down the throats of good honest Americans. This is completely ridiculous. Feel free to think Abortion is wrong, but until legislation is passed forcing you to have an Abortion against your will, were not forcing it down anyones throat. Whether or not a woman has an Abortion DOES NOT AFFECT YOU AT ALL. Make all the arguments about it's immorality you want, but don't do something so stupid as to claim by supporting abortion rights were somehow shoving abortion down anyones throat.

Same goes for homosexuality. If a homosexual couple in a long term relationship decide to get married, the only difference is when you see them walking down a street holding hands, they might each have a wedding ring on. How is that shoving it down your throats? Argue about the morality of it all you want, but don't pretend like were forcing you to do anything.

Any radical changes in a society isolate groups of people. They feel isolated and say so.

The idea of teaching Christians in schools that they have to think of gays as their absolute equals when they view them as wallowing in profound sin is kind of shoving it down your throat. It is telling them your religion is absolutely wrong and you have to respect us on levels that you really dont, and when any institution says this it is ridiculous.

Just look at what happened at the University of Delaware where people were labeled as basically wrong for holding beliefs that didn't fall in line with the fascist P. C. Brigade.

And what about Canada taking conservative radio hosts off the air for being anti-gay? I call that forcing your view down our throats.

In Britain long time foster parents were no longer allowed to have kids because they refused to worship homosexuals with the rest of the liberals. And also the BBC even confessed to being way too pro-gay.

The media and government of some nations certainly would have it that Christian views were not proposed on their airwaves.

But it is OK -- in school I always debated, and today I always debate with others, that you guys are wrong and we're going to win in the end. We'll always win because our views are inherent to mankind as it is never normal or natural for people to act like homosexuals, and it is normal and natural for parents to love the babies even in their womb.

The victory is ours and any persecution we face along the way will only teach us to be better leaders and Christians.

We're bound for Glory.
 
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Mayflower1

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Well, I use to be one of those types of Christians that went "Whap" to anything I saw was immoraly wrong. Cartoon, quite right. It does turn people away from God and it doesn't change anything either. There will always be immorality, abortion, etc. And though I will voice my opinion on this, I have done wrong as well, so who am I to judge?

It is hard to know which point is crossing the line though. It is hard to know how to talk about God and what I feel is right and wrong without "forcing it down a person's throat".

Still, there are sometimes where television tend to "Force things down my throat." I can't turn on many shows on television that doesn't talk about sex before marriage, or shows immorality in some way. It's as if the media is trying to promote an acceptance of this. It doesn't affect me, but for many it does. I see it as more as a mass brainwashing.
 
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Mling

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I love the expression on the Christian's face in the second one, and I think it is a more accurate expression of a lot of people's attitudes--not rage or anything. Just calm recognition that this is one of "those" people and this is the natural, appropriate way to treat "those" people. What's wrong with that?

I'm reminded of these cartoons:

addiscartoon.jpg



idt20050418bigotry.gif
 
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JadeTigress

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But it is OK -- in school I always debated, and today I always debate with others, that you guys are wrong and we're going to win in the end. We'll always win because our views are inherent to mankind as it is never normal or natural for people to act like homosexuals, and it is normal and natural for parents to love the babies even in their womb.

I guess I'm unnatural, then. I don't love babies, and I never have. I have a great dislike of them. Even when I was little, if someone handed me a baby doll I wanted absolutely nothing to do with it, and I had no idea what to do with it if I even wanted to play with it. And everyone knows that all girls play with baby dolls :doh:.

It's really kind of a problem for me, because my sister-in-law's firstborn is due in May, and I really have no idea how I'm going to interact with a baby.
 
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spaceddivstud

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I always think its better to listen before speaking, to respect the others opinion and beliefs. If we listen to another and take in what they have to say, trying hard to understand them then they are far more likely to respect us in what we have to say.

Heck, you might even decide they're right and what's so scary about that? A lot of people are too frightened that someone will ruin their faith to engage in proper, reasonable discussion. If one's faith is really really worth something, and is really founded on reality and truth then listening to and respecting another person's views isn't going to do much harm; in fact it will probably strengthen one's faith as it will balance out our knowledge.
 
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Maren

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Any radical changes in a society isolate groups of people. They feel isolated and say so.

The idea of teaching Christians in schools that they have to think of gays as their absolute equals

Are you seriously suggesting, as a matter of law, that gays are not equal? Do you believe that schools should not teach that all law-abiding citizens should not be treated equally?

when they view them as wallowing in profound sin is kind of shoving it down your throat. It is telling them your religion is absolutely wrong and you have to respect us on levels that you really dont, and when any institution says this it is ridiculous.

So are you claiming that we shouldn't teach children that they should treat people of other religions equally? In not the greatest commandment to love the Lord according to Christ? So why should Christians believe it is right to treat Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, etc. all equally?

Just look at what happened at the University of Delaware where people were labeled as basically wrong for holding beliefs that didn't fall in line with the fascist P. C. Brigade.

Sorry, I don't see any credibility in that blog entry. From the mainstream news report I found:
The sessions are not mandatory, Gilbert said, but students are encouraged to attend them, to explore their goals as leaders and citizens, and to examine how their behavior and beliefs affect others in a diverse community as well as the environment.

"The program is designed to encourage students to think about and to consider a number of issues, but all make their own decisions about the outcome of this reflection," Gilbert wrote. "... We believe that students learn and grow in part by engaging in significant discussions on both sides of the classroom door."

Blair believes the training should go farther. He said the sessions he attended addressed issues related to "visible" minorities -- such as various ethnic groups -- but barely touched matters of sexual identity.
The quoted article in the Blog is from a Christian activist group that appears to be making false claims to help raise money and outrage.

And what about Canada taking conservative radio hosts off the air for being anti-gay? I call that forcing your view down our throats.

Canada does not have freedom of speech, as we do in this country. As such, they have banned language that is believed to be inflammatory. Language used by Dr. Laura saying gays are “a deviant behaviour,” “a dysfunctional behaviour” and “an error” are inflammatory, just as it would be if directed against Christianity. All Canadian law is stating is that you may not use inflammatory language against groups of law abiding citizens, whether the group is religion, race or sexual orientation. Here in the US we allow the opposite, people are free to call people names (and do) freely.

However, Canada allows people to call homosexuality sin, just as long as they do not use inflammatory language to do so.


False. If you are going to use examples please report them accurately. In this case the couple refused to abide by the laws that cover foster care. Since all citizens are equal under the law, the British government does not allow foster parents to teach otherwise. Since they refused to do this, they were no longer allowed to be foster parents.

What is even funnier is the double standard you portray. For example, were this an atheist or Muslim couple teaching that Christians did not deserve respect or equal treatment I'm sure you'd be screaming your head off about the anti-Christian bigotry.

And also the BBC even confessed to being way too pro-gay.

Again, false. A person who has written shows for the BBC, Antony Jay, complained that he believes the BBC has a liberal bias. He doesn't say anything about the portrayal of homosexuals on the BBC at all. You really need to find another blog for your information, though you can't even blame the blog for twisting the information from this article.

The media and government of some nations certainly would have it that Christian views were not proposed on their airwaves.

Please provide evidence of any Western country not allowing Christian programs on the airways?

But it is OK -- in school I always debated, and today I always debate with others, that you guys are wrong and we're going to win in the end. We'll always win because our views are inherent to mankind as it is never normal or natural for people to act like homosexuals, and it is normal and natural for parents to love the babies even in their womb.

The victory is ours and any persecution we face along the way will only teach us to be better leaders and Christians.

We're bound for Glory.

Yes, much like you won the battle for slavery, segregation, etc.
 
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WatersMoon110

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False. If you are going to use examples please report them accurately. In this case the couple refused to abide by the laws that cover foster care. Since all citizens are equal under the law, the British government does not allow foster parents to teach otherwise. Since they refused to do this, they were no longer allowed to be foster parents.
Actually, it's worse than that. These foster parents not only refused to abide by the change in requirements for foster parents in Britain, they refused the sign the paper saying that they would and willing gave up being foster parents - then complained to their "fellow Christians" about how they were being discriminated against. And it says so in the very "Christian" article that was written about it.
 
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ReverendDG

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Any radical changes in a society isolate groups of people. They feel isolated and say so.
this is true, that doesn't mean the changes are wrong though

The idea of teaching Christians in schools that they have to think of gays as their absolute equals when they view them as wallowing in profound sin is kind of shoving it down your throat. It is telling them your religion is absolutely wrong and you have to respect us on levels that you really dont, and when any institution says this it is ridiculous.
what? you mean you really don't consider gay people equals? no one is saying you have to consider homosexuality moral, no one has ever said this, you believe it be wrong all you want.
now saying what gay people can and can't do based on your views of the morality of homosexuality, is what people are arguing about, they think you are wrong
i find it funny that christians would feel the same way if they were in the same boat as gays




But it is OK -- in school I always debated, and today I always debate with others, that you guys are wrong and we're going to win in the end.
orly? society seems to say otherwise, the next generation seems to think being gay is acceptable and not immoral or wrong
We'll always win because our views are inherent to mankind as it is never normal or natural for people to act like homosexuals, and it is normal and natural for parents to love the babies even in their womb.
that just makes me laugh, that is untrue, your views are nont inherent to mankind. intolerance of homosexuality is based on social norms not on some inherent trait. i love how you bring up "natural" like it means something, this is a pure red herring, who cares if its natural or not, you aren't even talking about nature, you are talking about "is this normal in our culture"
how can people "act like" homosexuals, whats the difference between acting and being
of course its natural for humans to feel emotion towards their offspring, but not in the womb, babies are naturally cute


The victory is ours and any persecution we face along the way will only teach us to be better leaders and Christians.
what persecution? disagreement is not persecution, ignoring christian morality is not persecution
get back to me when you are turned away from a job for being christian, or a home, or told you can't practice your religion at all

using the term persecution for anything in america is devaluing the struggles of truly persecuted people and makes me angry


We're bound for Glory.
thats what every christian who screams persecution! hopes for
 
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gwenmead

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I sometimes wonder if folks don't equate tolerance of something with actual forced adoption of something.

It's true that the pro-choice position doesn't actually mandate forced abortions for anybody, but the availability of the option in the first place is intolerable for some. It's true that tolerance of sexual flavors other than vanilla does not require that everyone try all 31 flavors, but the very variety upsets some people - much less that all 31 flavors would be openly available. How shocking!

Once in awhile I run across a bigot who claims that speaking out against their bigotry is a form of intolerance. Whether it is or isn't, I don't see anything honorable in allowing bigoted points of view to go unchallenged. And in any case, the way I see it, if bigots expect others to tolerate their bigotry, they're required to tolerate people's efforts to fight it. Fair's fair, after all.

Objecting to abuse isn't a form of intolerance or persecution, by the way. If you go around telling people they're degenerate sinners, expect them to fight back. It isn't because they want to wallow in sin: it's because you're abusing them and they don't like it.
 
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BigBadWlf

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Are you seriously suggesting, as a matter of law, that gays are not equal? Do you believe that schools should not teach that all law-abiding citizens should not be treated equally?



So are you claiming that we shouldn't teach children that they should treat people of other religions equally? In not the greatest commandment to love the Lord according to Christ? So why should Christians believe it is right to treat Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, etc. all equally?



Sorry, I don't see any credibility in that blog entry. From the mainstream news report I found:
The quoted article in the Blog is from a Christian activist group that appears to be making false claims to help raise money and outrage.



Canada does not have freedom of speech, as we do in this country. As such, they have banned language that is believed to be inflammatory. Language used by Dr. Laura saying gays are “a deviant behaviour,” “a dysfunctional behaviour” and “an error” are inflammatory, just as it would be if directed against Christianity. All Canadian law is stating is that you may not use inflammatory language against groups of law abiding citizens, whether the group is religion, race or sexual orientation. Here in the US we allow the opposite, people are free to call people names (and do) freely.

However, Canada allows people to call homosexuality sin, just as long as they do not use inflammatory language to do so.



False. If you are going to use examples please report them accurately. In this case the couple refused to abide by the laws that cover foster care. Since all citizens are equal under the law, the British government does not allow foster parents to teach otherwise. Since they refused to do this, they were no longer allowed to be foster parents.

What is even funnier is the double standard you portray. For example, were this an atheist or Muslim couple teaching that Christians did not deserve respect or equal treatment I'm sure you'd be screaming your head off about the anti-Christian bigotry.



Again, false. A person who has written shows for the BBC, Antony Jay, complained that he believes the BBC has a liberal bias. He doesn't say anything about the portrayal of homosexuals on the BBC at all. You really need to find another blog for your information, though you can't even blame the blog for twisting the information from this article.



Please provide evidence of any Western country not allowing Christian programs on the airways?



Yes, much like you won the battle for slavery, segregation, etc.
Thank you for confronting the false statements that were presented with the truth.
 
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Verv

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I guess I'm unnatural, then. I don't love babies, and I never have. I have a great dislike of them. Even when I was little, if someone handed me a baby doll I wanted absolutely nothing to do with it, and I had no idea what to do with it if I even wanted to play with it. And everyone knows that all girls play with baby dolls :doh:.

It's really kind of a problem for me, because my sister-in-law's firstborn is due in May, and I really have no idea how I'm going to interact with a baby.

You will learn to love babies one day, or perhaps you should see a psychologist about it.

All babies in all species are believed to be inherently cute as a defensive mechanism, so I have heard. I do not know how much credence I give to that but really, I do not know how you couldn't love baby things. It's exactly why Bonsais are great. :D

Are you seriously suggesting, as a matter of law, that gays are not equal? Do you believe that schools should not teach that all law-abiding citizens should not be treated equally?

I think the school shouldn't tell anybody how to think about anybody else. It is our right to think whatever we want. I do not want to be taught to hate or to love but I want to come to my own conclusions with my own mind, not be conditioned to be praised for some sort of liberal or conservative agenda.

I do not think the law should discriminate against any law abiding tax payer.

So are you claiming that we shouldn't teach children that they should treat people of other religions equally? In not the greatest commandment to love the Lord according to Christ? So why should Christians believe it is right to treat Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, etc. all equally?

They should be treated better than fellow Christians. Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and non-Christians deserve the best of treatment from us in all ways as I think Christians understand each other better and because Christians are not necessarily trying to represent the body of Christ when they speak with each other.

I go out of my way when I express myself to non-believers to try to be accommodating (in real life... Here I guess I just like to attack).

Sorry, I don't see any credibility in that blog entry. From the mainstream news report I found:
The quoted article in the Blog is from a Christian activist group that appears to be making false claims to help raise money and outrage.

You are right, it was not banned but rather boycotted and then different advocacy groups worked to censor the program because they disagreed with the statements.

Canada does not have freedom of speech, as we do in this country. As such, they have banned language that is believed to be inflammatory. Language used by Dr. Laura saying gays are “a deviant behaviour,” “a dysfunctional behaviour” and “an error” are inflammatory, just as it would be if directed against Christianity. All Canadian law is stating is that you may not use inflammatory language against groups of law abiding citizens, whether the group is religion, race or sexual orientation. Here in the US we allow the opposite, people are free to call people names (and do) freely.

So there is no freedom of speech in your country -- ridiculous.

Remind me not to speak my mind in Canada.

Homosexuality is deviant behavior, it is dysfunctional behavior, it is an error, and I will stand by that point in any way shape or form, whether Canada wants me to or not.

However, Canada allows people to call homosexuality sin, just as long as they do not use inflammatory language to do so.

Will Canada censor this for you?

"Homosexuality is a deviant behavior and a biological error."

False. If you are going to use examples please report them accurately. In this case the couple refused to abide by the laws that cover foster care. Since all citizens are equal under the law, the British government does not allow foster parents to teach otherwise. Since they refused to do this, they were no longer allowed to be foster parents.

What is even funnier is the double standard you portray. For example, were this an atheist or Muslim couple teaching that Christians did not deserve respect or equal treatment I'm sure you'd be screaming your head off about the anti-Christian bigotry.

Laws which would require them to condone homosexuality as foster parents.

What kind of a law is that?

Does that qualify as forcing an opinion down someone's throat?

So we should stop do gooders who do not ideologically agree with us? This would be like me banning homosexuals from adopting kids -- do you want that?


Again, false. A person who has written shows for the BBC, Antony Jay, complained that he believes the BBC has a liberal bias. He doesn't say anything about the portrayal of homosexuals on the BBC at all. You really need to find another blog for your information, though you can't even blame the blog for twisting the information from this article.

The BBC is govenrment funded and liberal. Isn't that forcing liberal views down someones throat?

Please provide evidence of any Western country not allowing Christian programs on the airways?

I have none.

Yes, much like you won the battle for slavery, segregation, etc.

I do not support slavery or segregation so you're out of luck on this inflammatory remark, equating conservatism with something it isn't associated with.

The National Socialist German Workers Party in every way but social issues was fundamentally leftist. Can I call you a closet Nazi, now?

this is true, that doesn't mean the changes are wrong though

Yeah, change isn't wrong and when our change triumphs it'll be glorious.

what? you mean you really don't consider gay people equals? no one is saying you have to consider homosexuality moral, no one has ever said this, you believe it be wrong all you want.
now saying what gay people can and can't do based on your views of the morality of homosexuality, is what people are arguing about, they think you are wrong
i find it funny that christians would feel the same way if they were in the same boat as gays

Gays have a right to do whatever they want under the law, and I agree witht hat; however, they are not moral equals in my opinion.

orly? society seems to say otherwise, the next generation seems to think being gay is acceptable and not immoral or wrong

We're going to triumph in the end.

You are also looking at 'next generation' in limited terms.

You are also looking at locations like America.

What about Switzerland, where the SPS has grown from a ragtag group in the early nineties to conrolling 50+ seats of 200?

What about the NPD in Germany being more and more elected in an anti-Islamic backlash?

Sarkozy was elected in France and Merkel in Germany. The Popular Orthodox Rally of Greece is gaining speed and the Right wing party of Serbia lead the 2008 elections.

Pak Geun-hye was nearly nominated, a true representative of far right wing Korean movement. Shinzo Abe was elected (but later resigned) and was renown for his conservatism.

On a global scale people are having stronger backlashes in more liberal countries and it shall come to pass in America as well.

We cannot be defeated because wherever moral anarchy and cultural decay rears its head the natural desire of the human heart to return to righteousness begins to appear.

Our victory is inevitable.

that just makes me laugh, that is untrue, your views are nont inherent to mankind. intolerance of homosexuality is based on social norms not on some inherent trait. i love how you bring up "natural" like it means something, this is a pure red herring, who cares if its natural or not, you aren't even talking about nature, you are talking about "is this normal in our culture"
how can people "act like" homosexuals, whats the difference between acting and being
of course its natural for humans to feel emotion towards their offspring, but not in the womb, babies are naturally cute

Every society, even atheist societies, have abhorred homosexual behavior as deviant. My girlfriend, a Chinese, once said to me that the Chinese are not like Americans: they cannot accept homosexuality.

She and 90%+ of China is atheist and militantly so, but it is still a nation that operates off of basic norms of social behavior and has not divorced itself from the reality.

It takes a lot of brainwashing (which we all incur) to convince us that something so unnatural is acceptable and laudable.

what persecution? disagreement is not persecution, ignoring christian morality is not persecution
get back to me when you are turned away from a job for being christian, or a home, or told you can't practice your religion at all

using the term persecution for anything in america is devaluing the struggles of truly persecuted people and makes me angry



thats what every christian who screams persecution! hopes for


I think the persecution is coming more to the forefront in other countries where Canada is outlawing free speech (just look earlier in this post and you will see that). Britain is the same.

Those give us strength and speed and we will never be stopped.

The pendulum swings in our favor, now.
 
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