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Trogdor the Burninator

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Hmm, interest how that correlates with the decline in the birth rate.
You are getting your stats mixed up. Mortaility rate per 1,000 births should be unaffected by how many babies are born. It’s a rate, not a total number. More of us are living longer as a result of better medicine and diet, among other things.



Look - maybe vaccinations are an abstract concept for you, because you live in the US, which has had them for years. Let me give you the other side.

I have a good friend, she’s in her thirties. She’s a smart, successful, well-educated person. She also has a deformed foot and walks with a permanent limp (she can’t run at all). Why?
Because in her country, when she was young, they didn’t have polio vaccinations. So when she caught Polio as a child, she got very ill. Though she eventually was cured, the disability was permanent. Other people from her generation, in the same country, died from it.

Another relative of mine still has the “spots” on their lungs from an encounter with Tuberculosis. Again – they were in a country where there was no vaccination for TB.

Every time I see these people, I should thank God that I was vaccinated when I was young. Now it’s easy for you to not vaccinate your kids, because people around you aren’t dying from diseases like polio or TB. But you might want to remember that it wasn’t so long ago that parents like you watched their kids die from this stuff, and prayed for a cure.

Now we have one – I for one intend to use it.
 
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oneofGod

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With all due respect to your friend, at what cost?

Source

Poliomyelitis, often called polio or infantile paralysis, is an acute viral infectious disease spread from person to person, primarily via the fecal-oral route
Source

If we could help these "poorer" countries that can't "afford" vaccinations improve their water supplies and sanitation practices, we would have less problems worldwide.

Mark 5:25-27 (King James Version)




25And a certain woman, which had an issue of blood twelve years,


26And had suffered many things of many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was nothing bettered, but rather grew worse,


27When she had heard of Jesus, came in the press behind, and touched his garment.
 
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ScMay

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I just love Alt-Med and medical Luddites who don't even know the basics of what they're talking about but boldly assert to know "the secret" abou the medical money machine racket.
So true, and then someone like below fails to understand and proves your point even further. Note to everyone, if you have an idea and are going to criticise experts of a field of science PLEASE PLEASE do a little research and make sure you aren't speaking gibberish or have misunderstood what you are talking about!
Actually, in my opinion, we have too much mucous in the stomach and intestinal lining, and the proper nutrients aren't getting to the cells, causing their ph balance to go down.
Main area of ignorance -
pH balance in the human body.
Firstly do you (oneofGod) understand what pH even means? If so how would changes in nutrient input affect pH, are we talking macronutrients or micronutrients? Through what mechanism does it cause the pH imbalance? There are too many ways in which pH can be influenced for us to just guess. Also how come the body is unable to compensate for the pH change caused by the nutrients? The body is fairly effective at keeping our pH at around 7.35-7.45 (off the top of my head i'm 90% sure that's the right range) and I know of no studies that show that there is a significant amount of people with pH imbalances of idiopathic origin, could you cite them please? Do you even know the mechanisms through which the body maintains its pH (just the basics even)?

Other areas of ignorance -
Epidemiology - 'in my opinion' is not sufficient with this, you need to be able to show that there is actually an increase in mucous of peoples stomachs and an increase in amount of people with idiopathic pH imbalances. Where are the studies, you can't just guess. Also you have to show a theoretical causal link between the two as correlation does not imply causation, other wise it may be a third related factor which causes both not one causing the other.
GI physiology - basically all absorption of nutrients occurs in the intestines, not the stomach, thus mucous lining changes would only affect absorption indirectly by influencing digestion. Besides the mucous is VITAL to stop the enzymes and pH digesting your own stomach (unless you like ulcers and cancer)

I'll move on...
I think a good stomach lining cleaning, with a mild acidic food, such as raw onion, washed down with saltwater would do wonders for people.
Mild acidic food is not likely to clean your entire stomach lining, since its purpose is to stop the much more acidic secretions of your stomach from digesting yourself (so the acidic food is a drop in the pond). This is assuming that you are healthy and have no underlying conditions, etc. Why you would want to expose your stomach to digestion by itself anyway is beyond me though.
As for the salt water. Why? Its mainly just going to dehydrate you, possibly stuff around with your electrolyte balance for a while before your kidney compensates (bad if you are salt-sensitive hypertensive) though healthy people will be fine as long as it is not too high a volume or too concentrated (lots of K+ would stop your heart for example, though I doubt that was the salt you were referring to - not that you likely new what salts you were talking about to begin with).

Can you tell us why this would help? Do you have any double blind randomised controlled trials that can back you up? Any studies at all? Or is this all a guess?

We're making ourselves sick, and because we are a set the kids down in front of the tv society, we just let them pump our kids full of untested and unproven chemicals, cause doctors and the government, are smarter than God.
You accuse government and doctors of arrogance, yet here you are stating thing as fact with no evidence. At least they have to prove their hypothesis right, have to test their drugs etc. Sounds like they aren't the arrogant one's here. Where did they ever claim to be smarter than god anyway? I've worked and studied under many doctors (i'm a student doctor myself) and that's not the impression I get.



This whole debate about the efficacy of vaccines is such a joke anyway, one side has evidence through epidemiology, science and history while the other has anecdotes, scaremongering and "I think XXX" (which really means I guess XXXX because I don't have a clue what I'm talking about). There is debate and uncertainty about many things but as far a vaccines are concerned the opposition is completely unable to gain any scientific credibility after so long and so much scrutiny, doesn't that suggest something? i.e. They're wrong/don't know what they're doing or talking about
 
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oneofGod

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ScMay, thank you for that very informative post. I do appreciate it. I tried to discuss this in a medical forum, and they banned me, because I'm an electrician.

The reason for salt water, is because the natural sulfuric acid (produced by chewing the onion) chemically reaction with the salt and inject sick cells with a boost of electric energy.

Try it sometime. Cut up a quarter of a raw onion, chew it up, and wash it down with about a cup of warm salt water.

Did you watch that video?

It is full of doctors telling about the dangers of vaccines.

1 1/2 hrs of proof.
 
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USincognito

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Every parent should be informed. The following
shocking video will show you the Hidden Truth.

I don't have the bandwidth this morning, nor the interest to watch tonight, but can you summarize the claims of the "Hidden Truth"? I don't expect you to provide links to this supposed "hidden" truth, but at least the folks in the video should provide citations of papers that we could look up to see if they have as much veracity as the 9/11 "truth" movement.

I'm sorry but I've seen too many people with agendas and who ascribe to conspiracy theories describe thier position as "truth" to accept their claims as face value.

I'll make it easy on you, just pick 4 or 5 claims from the video and link to peer reviewed medical liturature supporting the claims of the "truthers" or at least give us the paper/study they cite so I can look into it myself.
 
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Steezie

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ScMay, thank you for that very informative post. I do appreciate it. I tried to discuss this in a medical forum, and they banned me, because I'm an electrician.
Yeah somehow I dont think it was because of your profession.

The reason for salt water, is because the natural sulfuric acid (produced by chewing the onion) chemically reaction with the salt and inject sick cells with a boost of electric energy.
You....have no idea what you're talking about, do you?
 
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notto

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The reason for salt water, is because the natural sulfuric acid (produced by chewing the onion) chemically reaction with the salt and inject sick cells with a boost of electric energy.

You might as well just say that you are invoking magic at this point. It has as much validity as what you are claiming here.
 
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simplicity

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I got my flu shot at a nearby mall yesterday. As a child I probably got the usual array of shots in some cases several times over because we kept misplacing the documentation.

I like the general idea of mandatory shots since I believe it is in the best interest of the recipients. I recognize that sometimes bad reactions can occur and that mistakes can be made at the drug labs.

I think in terms of disease dynamics, over time the most successful diseases are those that we ignore. We can sometimes destroy the naturally competitive environment by removing certain diseases from the equation, leaving the field free for others. Viruses are not all bad since they attack not just people but the bacteria living inside and around them. And just by the luck of the draw a person might get a virus that will fend off a much more dangerous virus or corrupt the genetic characteristics of some kind of pathogenic bacteria.

But the bottom line I think is that we don't want kids to die. And no religion on the planet wants this either. So to the extent shots help to reduce mortality, I think it's a good idea. And Jesus didn't have anything to say on this or a number of other subjects. So don't go imagining that he did.
 
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MrJim

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funny thread to read~the usual suspect that are pro-choice are anti-choice on the vaccination thing

I didn't vaccinate my boys (we homeschool so y'all are safe) until they were much older, and then only the tetnus combo. My doc was cool with it, said he didn't submit his kids to the entire battery either.
 
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Ave Maria

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I don't understand what religious reason there could be to not want to vaccinate your children. I mean seriously. Are you afraid they will get a computer chip through the vaccination needle or something? And yes, I know of someone who believed/believes this was/is possible. That said, I am against forced vaccinations. Vaccinations should not be forced upon people. It should be optional but encouraged.
 
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MrJim

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It's for the same reason I homeschool~I'm responsible for my children's health and education~that's why I don't send them to government school, whether my taxes pay or not, and I don't submit to the entire battery of shots the government recommends. And if someday we have to go underground, then so what?

It's actually a somewhat liberal point of view--I mean, the government trying to force something the individual doesn't want? Funny how things can turn out
 
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flicka

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It's not a matter of being "anti choice" but as you say you are responsible...and you must take responsibility. Not just for your kids but for how you actions effect others as well. When it comes to communicable diseases everyone needs to be aware of how these things work. The government steps in because public health is larger than any individual and it's society they are concerned with, no just one kid.

I'm pretty confident a major breakout of a long thought dead disease would have alot of people running to the doctors for vaccines, but not until many people are unnecessarily damaged.
 
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Steezie

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Agreed 100%

The issue isnt so much about your personal choice as the safety of people as a whole. Your personal choices have the potential to effect millions of people in a very negative way and if too many people make the choice NOT to vaccinate, those people's personal choices put everybody else at risk.

Personal choice does not extend to hurting other people. If I drive drunk, thats my personal choice but the government recognizes that my personal choice has a good chance of negatively impacting (quite litterally) someone else and I am therefore not allowed to make that choice without consequences
 
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notto

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Tell ya what~you can force anything ya want, mandate anything ya want, try to come and get us...ain't playin' your games.

Nobody is forcing anything. The title of the thread and it's intent is a distortion of reality.

You are free to choose to not get your kids vaccinated. Just don't plan on sending them to school with other kids whose safety depends on vaccinations or if you do follow the correct process to get an exemption.

The only reason these parents ended up in court is because they didn't do either one and that violated the law.
 
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flicka

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Tell ya what~you can force anything ya want, mandate anything ya want, try to come and get us...ain't playin' your games.
Tell YOU what, stop trying to act tough, you aren't. Your just playing games on the internet like a 12 yr old. You'd be the first in line to get a vaccine if it came down to it. Crying and begging.
 
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