• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Forbidden Archeology: Beyond Creation vs. Evolution

Gene2memE

Newbie
Oct 22, 2013
4,703
7,274
✟351,271.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
I would assume that the atheists of this forum have never heard about an alternative to evolution that doesn't include a theistic God.

Then you'd be wrong. Some of us paid attention in our history of sciences classes at university.
 
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
39,858
29,527
Pacific Northwest
✟828,403.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
well, a lot of the ancient wonders if my memory is right that scientists still don't know how they were made. Like the ancient pyramids, and a lot of megalithic monuments.

I'm not saying it was aliens...

But it was aliens.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

Loudmouth

Contributor
Aug 26, 2003
51,417
6,143
Visit site
✟98,025.00
Faith
Agnostic
Upvote 0

Loudmouth

Contributor
Aug 26, 2003
51,417
6,143
Visit site
✟98,025.00
Faith
Agnostic

First, there is no such thing as devolution. Just evolution. In the same way, there is no such thing as detraveling. There is only traveling, no matter what direction you are going in. Evolution is just change, no matter what direction that change is in.

Second, there is a difference between what is possible and what is true. Is it possible that Jimmy Hoffa is buried in my back yard? I guess it could be true. Is there any reason to think that Jimmy Hoffa really is buried in my back yard? No.

Could it be possible that humans were created by the fart of an invisible pink unicorn who was flying through a cotton candy waterfall? I guess it's possible, in that ultimate doubt about everything kind of possible. However, is there any reason to think it is true?

The same for "devolving" from higher beings. It ranks right up there with being farted out by an invisible pink unicorn.
 
Reactions: Bugeyedcreepy
Upvote 0

Loudmouth

Contributor
Aug 26, 2003
51,417
6,143
Visit site
✟98,025.00
Faith
Agnostic

If humans were created by the gaseous emissions of an invisible pink unicorn who was fed a constant diet of cotton candy, then this would explain why babies smell so good.

Do you understand why inventing fantasies is not considered evidence?
 
Upvote 0

FrumiousBandersnatch

Well-Known Member
Mar 20, 2009
15,405
8,144
✟356,992.00
Faith
Atheist
...It's simply an icing on the cake that Michael Cremo and Richard Thompson happened to compile dozens of scientific discoveries that better fit the Buddha's explanation for human origins than Darwin's theory of evolution.
Hmm, well much as I like icing on my cakes, this review of Cremo & Thompson's book suggests that it's for display purposes only... or perhaps only suitable for uncritical consumption.
 
Upvote 0

Subduction Zone

Regular Member
Dec 17, 2012
32,629
12,069
✟230,471.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
First, define 'garbage' with evidence that it applies to my link.
Then ask nicely.
I asked nicely the first time. You lost the right to demand that I ask nicely.

And it looks like you need some help. Peer review in a well respected professional journal is a good start.
 
Upvote 0

Loudmouth

Contributor
Aug 26, 2003
51,417
6,143
Visit site
✟98,025.00
Faith
Agnostic
First, define 'garbage' with evidence that it applies to my link.

As SZ states, if it isn't the primary paper written by the scientist who did the actual science, then it runs a high chance of being garbage. You should always strive to find the primary source, not secondary sources that can distort or misrepresent what the scientist actually reported.
 
Upvote 0

Dharma Flower

Active Member
Dec 22, 2016
183
14
39
United States
✟24,447.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Buddhist
Marital Status
Married
I think it would help the people on this forum commenting on the book Forbidden Archeology is if they were at least somewhat familiar with the book itself.

As I've mentioned before, at the time when the book was first published, it was reviewed in mainstream archeological journals in which even the book's critics admitted that it had thoroughly researched the archeological evidence:


It's not just the work of early archeologists that the book surveys, though it does form a great deal of the evidence that the book provides. The book presents more recent evidence as well.

For example, Mary Leaky discovered three million year old footprints of anatomically modern humans, and then explained it away because it didn't fit the evolutionary paradigm:

 
Upvote 0

HitchSlap

PROUDLY PRIMATE
Aug 6, 2012
14,723
5,468
✟288,596.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
I think "isn't always convincing (far from it)", says it all.
 
Upvote 0

Larniavc

"Larniavc sir, how are you so smart?"
Jul 14, 2015
15,452
9,442
52
✟400,386.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
Mary Leaky discovered three million year old footprints of anatomically modern humans
Three million foot prints of year old humans?

That's a lot of footprints.
 
Upvote 0

Loudmouth

Contributor
Aug 26, 2003
51,417
6,143
Visit site
✟98,025.00
Faith
Agnostic
I think it would help the people on this forum commenting on the book Forbidden Archeology is if they were at least somewhat familiar with the book itself.

It would help if you would present some actual evidence from the book. It isn't our job to present this material.

For example, Mary Leaky discovered three million year old footprints of anatomically modern humans, and then explained it away because it didn't fit the evolutionary paradigm:

You can't determine if a footprint came from an anatomically modern human. You need a lot more evidence than the bottom of their feet.
 
Upvote 0

Dharma Flower

Active Member
Dec 22, 2016
183
14
39
United States
✟24,447.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Buddhist
Marital Status
Married
I'm curious why your hypothetical "higher" beings are degenerating into humans?

That's a good question. According to the Buddha's teaching in the Agganna Sutta, our ancestors descended from the deva realm to this world because they were tempted by sensual pleasures like food.

As they became more and more attached to life in this world, their bodies became more physical over time, and they lost their spiritual powers like the ability to fly. The first intelligent beings on this earth were sexless as well, and over time, they developed sexual differences.

According to the Buddha's teachings, devas (gods) are beings in the cycle of karma and rebirth just like us. Once they've exhausted the good karma that caused them to be born into the deva realm, they must then be reborn into the lower realm, which would be our human realm.

If a human species doesn't already exist on a planet inhabitable for intelligent life for these devas to be reincarnated into, then may must fall to this world as devas and progressively become more human and more physical over time.

Please tell me if I am not explaining this process clearly enough, and I will be happy to explain it better.
 
Upvote 0

Dharma Flower

Active Member
Dec 22, 2016
183
14
39
United States
✟24,447.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Buddhist
Marital Status
Married

So far, I've never actually spoken with someone who read the evidences presented by Michael Cremo and Richard Thompson for themselves, and then heard from that person why the evidences Forbidden Archeology pulled from mainstream sources weren't compelling.

This is the condensed version of Forbidden Archeology, freely available online:
The Hidden History of the Human Race free download - Krishna Path

What I have seen is reviews of Forbidden Archeology from mainstream archeological journals that admitted the book was well-researched and well-written, even if they disagreed with the book's conclusions:

 
Upvote 0

Larniavc

"Larniavc sir, how are you so smart?"
Jul 14, 2015
15,452
9,442
52
✟400,386.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
That seems quite clear.

But there is no evidence for this, is there?
 
Upvote 0

Larniavc

"Larniavc sir, how are you so smart?"
Jul 14, 2015
15,452
9,442
52
✟400,386.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
article said:
Nonetheless, I suspect that creationism is at the root of the authors' argument, albeit of a sort not commonly seen before.

Faint praise, indeed. Slightly better written bad is still bad.
 
Upvote 0

Dharma Flower

Active Member
Dec 22, 2016
183
14
39
United States
✟24,447.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Buddhist
Marital Status
Married
That seems quite clear.

But there is no evidence for this, is there?

The most important thing, for me as a Buddhist, is that I trust in the Buddha's enlightenment.

Everyone, even scientists, will evaluate the evidences presented for common descent with apes based on their own presuppositions, so I might as well interpret the evidence provided by scientists in light of what the Buddha taught.

Secondly, if archaeological evidences were found of extreme human antiquity, of modern humans living during the time that Australopithecines are supposed to have lived or even before, that would in and of itself falsify the evolutionary timeline.
 
Upvote 0

Dharma Flower

Active Member
Dec 22, 2016
183
14
39
United States
✟24,447.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Buddhist
Marital Status
Married
Faint praise, indeed. Slightly better written bad is still bad.

What Cremo and Thompson actually believed, however, was not creationism. Humans descending from higher beings would be devolution, not creationism. No intervention from a theistic God would be required.

Cremo actually wrote a book after Forbidden Archeology called Human Devolution. At the same time, the personal religious beliefs of the authors would not disqualify the evidences they presented.
 
Upvote 0