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What about those who are devout Christians but believe that the interpretation of Genesis as literal and inerrant is shallow, theologically inadequate and a grotesque misuse of the divinely inspired Word of God? They really don't fall into either of those categories.And so we are back to my original statement:
You either believe in the all-powerful God of creation and that the Bible is His inspired word to us, Genesis to Revelation, and that science is a useful tool and gift of the creator by which man can do many things within the capability of his understanding… or you believe that man and his capabilities have totally evolved on their own and self-elevated to the point that he can now correct God’s word through his speculations and even question God’s role in anything. That’s about as simple as it gets.
I will acknowledge that truth can be subjective; if you will concede that my original statement made no mention of it.Or your interpretation of scripture directly contradicts what God's only direct communication to us, reality, tells us.
Do you expect someone to reproduce several research papers here? Anyway, I’m sure that you are aware that fossilization is a rare thing. You should probably start with How Dinosaurs Shrank and Became Birds. Please note that I said “start with”.Very well, then please describe the process involved in just one macro-evolutionary transition in the fossil record, the steps involved and how nature produced each of those steps.
Then all you have to do is prove that your description is factual and not simply a product of your imagination.
If you know how evolution works, that task should be easy.
If you are saying they believe God created us through evolution and the bible just doesn't spell it out, and even though I disagree, wouldn't they still be in the first camp? Who's trying to complicate here?What about those who are devout Christians but believe that the interpretation of Genesis as literal and inerrant is shallow, theologically inadequate and a grotesque misuse of the divinely inspired Word of God? They really don't fall into either of those categories.
You pretty much relegated anyone who disagreed with you about Genesis to the second camp, Christian or not. Or maybe you are just trying us on with the usual creationist distraction of turning the creation/evolution discussion into a theism/ atheism debate.If you are saying they believe God created us through evolution and the bible just doesn't spell it out, and even though I disagree, wouldn't they still be in the first camp? Who's trying to complicate here?
No, I think you did that... the distinctions I made are pretty straight-forward.You pretty much relegated anyone who disagreed with you about Genesis to the second camp, Christian or not. Or maybe you are just trying us on with the usual creationist distraction of turning the creation/evolution discussion into a theism/ atheism debate.
In that case, please describe how one the first alleged macro-evoltionary transitions took place - how eukaryotes evolved from prokaryotes. Describe the steps involved and how natural selection and what environmental pressures produced each of those steps.
Please describe how a whale's blowhole evolved. Describe the steps involved and how natural selection and what environmental pressures produced each of those steps.
Please describe how birds evolved from reptiles. Describe the steps involved and how natural selection and what environmental pressures produced those steps.
Please describe how amphibians evolved from fish. Describe the steps involved and how natural selection and what environmental pressures produced those steps.
No, I think you did that... the distinctions I made are pretty straight-forward.
(emphasis added) I don't see how you could have intended anything else but to divide the world into two camps: those who agree with you about Genesis and those who don't. What else could you have meant by "correct God's word?"And so we are back to my original statement:
You either believe in the all-powerful God of creation and that the Bible is His inspired word to us, Genesis to Revelation, and that science is a useful tool and gift of the creator by which man can do many things within the capability of his understanding… or you believe that man and his capabilities have totally evolved on their own and self-elevated to the point that he can now correct God’s word through his speculations and even question God’s role in anything. That’s about as simple as it gets.
Maybe you're complicating it??? God and Creation per the bible/God and Creation through evolutionary means (that I disagree with) vs. Evolution without God (correcting God's word, and needless-to-say I certainly disagree with). If I'm missing something, throw it out there.(emphasis added)I'm not sure I see how you could have possibly meant anything else but to divide the world into two camps: those who agree with you about Genesis and everybody else.
So what you are doing, then, is nothing more than trying to create a distraction by trying to turn the creation/evolution discussion into a theism/atheism debate. Whether people believe in God or not and whether they accept the theory of evolution as plausible or not are two entirely separate questions.Maybe you're complicating it??? God and Creation per the bible/God and Creation through evolutionary means (that I disagree with) vs. Evolution without God (correcting God's word, and needless-to-say I certainly disagree with). If I'm missing something, throw it out there.
Well, you read everything I said. I included belief in God/Creation and God/Evolution (even though I disagree) in the same camp, and No God/ Evolution in the other. Unless you believe No God created us that’s about it… and it technically falls in the second camp also. As I said that's about as simple as it gets.So what you are doing, then, is nothing more than trying to create a distraction by trying to turn the creation/evolution discussion into a theism/atheism debate. Whether people believe in God or not and whether they accept the theory of evolution as plausible or not are two entirely separate questions.
What in your view is the scientific, testable difference between God/evolution and no God/evolution? Or is there a difference?Well, you read everything I said. I included belief in God/Creation and God/Evolution (even though I disagree) in the same camp, and No God/ Evolution in the other. Unless you believe No God created us that’s about it… and it technically falls in the second camp also. As I said that's about as simple as it gets.
I don’t think that would be possible to test scientifically, and that there is a difference (but I will not argue with believers about it). But, to me, it’s like they say yes to everything in the TOE, none of which acknowledges God, all the way back to the point we supposedly crawled out of a mud hole, and then they say, oh no, but God created us. I just don’t get it.What in your view is the scientific, testable difference between God/evolution and no God/evolution? Or is there a difference?
Probably don't have the theology for it--one of those babies that got tossed with the bathwater of the Reformation. A fully naturalistic explanation for a natural phenomenon does not rule out active divine causality. This has been known to philosophers for millenia and has been part of Christian theology forever. That is why Traditional Christians (Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican, etc.--those who do not subscribe to Sola Scriptura) tend not to have so much trouble with naturalistic origins theories.I don’t think that would be possible to test scientifically, and that there is a difference (but I will not argue with believers about it). But, to me, it’s like they say yes to everything in the TOE, none of which acknowledges God, all the way back to the point we supposedly crawled out of a mud hole, and then they say, oh no, but God created us. I just don’t get it.
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