Fighting Back

repentant · Oct 13, 2006

Right Theophorus..

Like if someone insults (that's a good word, better than strikes, lol) something you do good, let them also insult the evil or sins you commit.

MikeMcK · Oct 13, 2006

repentant said:
Actually it has to do with something else totally...

Matt 5:39
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

It has to do with righteousness. In other words, if someone strikes your righteousness, show him your unrighteousness and let him strike that as well.

Actually strike wouldn't be a good word, but I can't think of another one...

To hit someone on the right cheek would imply using your left hand. Only a very small percentage is left handed, even smaller back then. Jesus would know this. If He was talking about an actual smack on the cheek, He probably would have said left cheek..

I don't see how you came to that conclusion, but it isn't something I'm going to spend time arguing about.

The bottom line is that those who abuse this verse to condemn self-defense don't know what they're talking about.

Cribstyl · Oct 13, 2006

bound2him said:
Hey all, just wondering how you feel about fighting back when someone smacks you around. I work in a very violent environment, and I am wondering about self defense especially.

Thanks!

Some Ideas

Get out of boxing, a fella could get hurt.

Evaluate what those who dont get pushed arround do. Make an official statement..... Change your habbits.
Pray and look for for God to change you.

We cant change bullys but when we Christians are at the end of our ropes, we turn to God, and listen desperately for directions.

Peace, God bless

CRIB

Trigger · Oct 13, 2006

You should learn ninjitsu--all about how to disarm or otherwise incapacitate your opponent without injuring him (beyond superficially anyway).

If all christians were also ninjas, I think we'd get a lot more respect.

GraceInHim · Oct 13, 2006

Moving thread to Christian Philosophy & Ethics, leaving a re-direct for members to find it easily and continue the discussion.

Peace

127Rockledge · Oct 13, 2006

Dad Ernie said:
Greetings B2H,

Pseud gave a wonderful reply, but you state that you work in a violent environment. I don't understand that, but if you were a cop, I would recommend following procedure. If you were in Iraq, shoot first and ask questions later.

Now if you do not work for the state or government, why put yourself in such an environment? We are to be wise as serpents and gentle as doves. We are not to associate with the corrupt of this world, or put ourselves in such a position that we might regret later.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

I'm sure I'll be posting many times in this thread, but here's the first.

I am a contracted force protection professional, I have worked for the govt. in the past, which allows me to pursue this profession now. I DO NOT WORK FOR THE GOVT. ANY LONGER. -

To answer the question in bold - I put myself in very dangerous enviroments because it's what God has led me to do. I am good at my job. I have never been a computer expert or had any interest in medicine, but funny enough, I love to fight and shoot (notice I did not say kill - to which I am honestly impartial though I have great respect for all combatives), and I'm good at both. Is this wrong of me? Am I pursuing some unholy goal? I don't think so and there is nothing biblically which leads me to believe otherwise. God used combatives before, I believe he uses me now.

Also, turning the cheek is not applied correctly, if it has not been detailed already I will post a proper description.

127Rockledge · Oct 13, 2006

Turning the other cheek put into context -

A post eariler described "turning the cheek" fairly well.

Put into periodical context: To strike someone with the back of your hand implied somebody is of a lesser value than yourself. With the palm it implied the person was of equal or greater value than yourself. It was also considered socially unacceptable for a man to use his left hand in public.

So, if I were facing you, and you facing me, and I struck you with the back of my right hand, I would strike you on your right cheek. Implying with the strike that I am of a higher social value than you.

If I were to strike you again, but you turned your head to the right, and only presented your left cheek, I would be forced to strike you with my palm (as it is not acceptable to use my left hand) - implying that you are now of equal social value to myself - which would not be done.

So I would end up chasing you around like a fool to strike you again, or give up.

This message of turning the other cheek is about gaining a tactical advantage, forcing your "opponent" to withdraw without use of force. It absolutely does not however imply that one must endure abuse.

127Rockledge · Oct 13, 2006

Also I have to ask, do you believe combative sports such as boxing, wrestling, fencing, etc. are unGodly?

The current welterweight champion of the UFC is Matt Hughes - a proclaimed devout Christian. His site: http://www.matt-hughes.com/blog.html

Notice the scriptures all over his site.

I would argue that soldiers/LEO's and other govt. combatives do kill, and thus by saying God granting them the ability to do so without sin makes him a social progressive, but I believe they are covered by Matt. 5:9 " Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God."

repentant · Oct 13, 2006

MikeMcK said:
I don't see how you came to that conclusion, but it isn't something I'm going to spend time arguing about.

The bottom line is that those who abuse this verse to condemn self-defense don't know what they're talking about.

Elder Cleopa of Romania, I believe..

billwald · Oct 13, 2006

Study some defensive martial arts.

billwald · Oct 13, 2006

Boxing - the only "sport" whose goal is to cause brain damage.

127Rockledge · Oct 13, 2006

billwald said:
Boxing - the only "sport" whose goal is to cause brain damage.

Wrong.

The goal of boxing is to defeat the opponent by either knockout (A ruling where the referee stops the bout and declares a boxer the winner if his opponent has been down for the count of 10 ), technical knockout (a knockout declared by the referee who judges one boxer unable to continue ), or by points assessed for effective attack/counters, and overall control of the fight.

Boxing is strategy, planning, and coordination of efforts.

Should you go in guns blazing hoping for a knockout, and use energy you might need in later rounds? Should you dance and counter and attack only with "safe strikes" and try to wear your opponent down keeping energy high? Are you properly conditioned? Can you deliver effective strikes? Can you take strikes?

Boxing is much more than just two guys in a ring beating eachother.

I say this as a mma fighter who trains very hard.

repentant · Oct 13, 2006

Boxing and self defense are 2 different things. Boxing is a sport, real life isn't. Usually after a boxing match, the 2 contenders shake hands. Where as in the real world, this doen't happen. Unless of course it's 2 friends fighting over something stupid.

In the real world nowadays, you'll be lucky to leave with your life, much less a hand shake..

127Rockledge · Oct 15, 2006

By saying boxing and self-defense being two different things, are you arguing that self-defense is somehow wrong?

repentant · Oct 15, 2006

No just that they are not in the same boat.

Inviolable · Oct 15, 2006

bound2him said:
Hey all, just wondering how you feel about fighting back when someone smacks you around. I work in a very violent environment, and I am wondering about self defense especially.

Thanks!

Thats hard to say, there have been wars in the bible to protect the nature of Christianity or the belief in God.

Look at David, he defended a belief in God through war all the time, I'm sure under his leadership thousands of people died.

Look how Jesus got upset over the Church being defiled.

Personal defense could be viewed the same way, if your faith is in question because of the violence around you or what is happening to you then you might have the right to fight back.
I wouldn't put my faith on the line just so I could fight back either.

You need to examine what is going on, lowered self esteem could make your stance as a Christian falter.
Many factors like self esteem can play a role in how you grow as a Christian and that is an important issue to God.
Will fighting back make you a better Christian and bring you closer to God?

I haven't read the whole thread yet but I would guess you have heard it more then once, I'll say it anyway.

Pray on it. Ask Jesus for it to stop or a way to help you make it stop. I am sure one way or the other Jesus will give you the answer.

I hope I didn't ramble on to much and I hope you find the answer you need to get you through this hardship.

I'll pray for you.

God bless.

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