Fictitious Christian?

[Braunwyn]

I was talking with my mother tonight and she shared a super-secret piece of gossip with me. My cousin’s child asked her grandma (my aunt) whom Jesus was/is. He’s about 5 or 6 years old. My mom went on for about 10-15 minutes about raising my brother and me with Christ in our lives, etc. I’ve told her in the past that I’m an atheist but she simply will not accept it. She has stated, “No, you’re not”. I don’t want to hurt her so I don’t bring it up. I attend church with her and will do so this Christmas. If/when I have children, this is going to be a sticky situation. Is it possible to teach a young child to have couth when it comes to the deeply held beliefs of others?

Generally, I don’t fib but when it comes to stuff like this I just keep my mouth shut. It means so much to my mom. Her faith is very important to her and I respect that. I think she needs it and I would never take on the enormous and possibly detrimental responsibility of challenging her faith. However, I certainly cannot teach my children to believe in something I don’t believe. In addition, I wouldn’t really want her to know that my children will be raised with out monotheism. Of course, maybe I’ll never have children so I’m worrying for nothing. I just thought I would post this any way.

What do you think?

 

[Washington]

Your primary obligation would be to your children, and as such whatever your mother's reaction may be to what you tell them is secondary. If she becomes disappointed, sad, mad, vengeful, controlling, unaccepting, or whatever, that's too bad. She's an adult who has far more control over her reaction to what you say than would your children. As much as your mother's faith may be important to her, it would be a mistake to think that your children's approach to religion is any less important. At some time or another---often many times--- all parents become disappointed in something their children do. It's all part of the parent/child relationship, and should she become disappointed in your decision, just chalk it up to another one of those instances, unfortunate as it may be. If she becomes hurts then it's her fault for not recognizing your responsibility to both yourself and your children. In a case like this you don't owe it to her to lie to your children.

 

[rambot]

Look at it this way. Perhaps you will one day become disappointed that your child became a Christian! ;-)
Would you want your child to hide their church going ways from you?

 

[Braunwyn]

Your primary obligation would be to your children, and as such whatever your mother's reaction may be to what you tell them is secondary. If she becomes disappointed, sad, mad, vengeful, controlling, unaccepting, or whatever, that's too bad. She's an adult who has far more control over her reaction to what you say than would your children. As much as your mother's faith may be important to her, it would be a mistake to think that your children's approach to religion is any less important. At some time or another---often many times--- all parents become disappointed in something their children do. It's all part of the parent/child relationship, and should she become disappointed in your decision, just chalk it up to another one of those instances, unfortunate as it may be. If she becomes hurts then it's her fault for not recognizing your responsibility to both yourself and your children. In a case like this you don't owe it to her to lie to your children.

She would be sad, but she wouldn't be mad, vengeful or anthing like that. She would be confused. It's difficult. My mom lived in a covent through out her teens but she's not one of whacko phelp's type of folk. She's had a VERY hard life, she feels guilty over eveything, she was abused by her father (as well as her mom by her husband) and I'm just senstive to that.

I tend to be sensitive to the needs of those around me in general. I'm sort of a care taker. Either way, I have no intention of teaching my children to believe in any sort of deity. I am hoping that they (if they ever exist) can learn at a very early age to be sensitive to the needs of others. I don't have children so I have no idea how it goes. I have known children that have great wisdom at a young age though so I have a little hope.

Look at it this way. Perhaps you will one day become disappointed that your child became a Christian! ;-)
Would you want your child to hide their church going ways from you?

Of course not. But, I tend to view my mom as fragile and not myself lol. I view most people/creatures in my life in similar way. Big surprise lol.

 

[Nathan45]

Your primary obligation would be to your children, and as such whatever your mother's reaction may be to what you tell them is secondary. If she becomes disappointed, sad, mad, vengeful, controlling, unaccepting, or whatever, that's too bad. She's an adult who has far more control over her reaction to what you say than would your children. As much as your mother's faith may be important to her, it would be a mistake to think that your children's approach to religion is any less important. At some time or another---often many times--- all parents become disappointed in something their children do. It's all part of the parent/child relationship, and should she become disappointed in your decision, just chalk it up to another one of those instances, unfortunate as it may be. If she becomes hurts then it's her fault for not recognizing your responsibility to both yourself and your children. In a case like this you don't owe it to her to lie to your children.

agreed. +1

 

[Nathan45]

I am hoping that they (if they ever exist) can learn at a very early age to be sensitive to the needs of others.

If i knew how to teach kids that, I'd write a book and be famous.

I'm lucky... nobody in my immediate family is religious at all, so I'm never going to have to deal with stuff like this.

 

[Nathan45]

Anyway, i think that you should absolutely not teach your kids to lie. I'm not sure if that's what you meant by "Fictitious christians" in your title. That would probably be a lot easier than teaching them to tolerate other people's opinions, but don't do it. If they end up doing something embarassing, well, that's just kids being kids, that's them learning tolerance the hard way.

 

[Braunwyn]

If i knew how to teach kids that, I'd write a book and be famous.

I'm lucky... nobody in my immediate family is religious at all, so I'm never going to have to deal with stuff like this.

I don't know. Kids seem to come in all shapes and sizes (emotionally). Hopefully my kid will be mellow and sensitive.

Anyway, i think that you should absolutely not teach your kids to lie. I'm not sure if that's what you meant by "Fictitious christians" in your title. That would probably be a lot easier than teaching them to tolerate other people's opinions, but don't do it. If they end up doing something embarassing, well, that's just kids being kids, that's them learning tolerance the hard way.

The idea of teaching my kids to lie is not what I have in mind. Rather, I would like them to be able to grasp that beliefs they don't hold should be minded with discretion when in the presence of believers. That's probably too much to ask of a kid. OTOH, I don't think I would have a problem with teaching him/her about Jesus as a figure in history that had many good things to say. It's not as if I disagree with Christ's teachings for the most part. Also, children are going to come across religion given that society is largely religious. I'm not interested in an 'us against them' type of situation.

 

[angellica]

She would be sad, but she wouldn't be mad, vengeful or anthing like that. She would be confused. It's difficult. My mom lived in a covent through out her teens but she's not one of whacko phelp's type of folk. She's had a VERY hard life, she feels guilty over eveything, she was abused by her father (as well as her mom by her husband) and I'm just senstive to that.

I tend to be sensitive to the needs of those around me in general. I'm sort of a care taker. Either way, I have no intention of teaching my children to believe in any sort of deity. I am hoping that they (if they ever exist) can learn at a very early age to be sensitive to the needs of others. I don't have children so I have no idea how it goes. I have known children that have great wisdom at a young age though so I have a little hope.


Of course not. But, I tend to view my mom as fragile and not myself lol. I view most people/creatures in my life in similar way. Big surprise lol.

She doesn't sound fragile if she's been through what all she's been through and still has a strong faith in God! Good for her!!

 

[PhilosophicalBluster]

That's probably too much to ask of a kid.

I guess a lot of anti-gay activists are kids then.

 

[Nathan45]

I guess a lot of anti-gay activists are kids then.

bringing back fond memories of high school in Texas

"That's so gay!" "No, you're gay!" "No, you are, f*****!!"

 

[Braunwyn]

She doesn't sound fragile if she's been through what all she's been through and still has a strong faith in God! Good for her!!

I guess it depends on the person.

I guess a lot of anti-gay activists are kids then.

lol

 

[revanneosl]

Sit back with your eyes closed and imagine for a while that your mom had a deeply held belief in astrology.

Just breathe in and out and imagine it.

....




....





Now - would you not teach your children to be kind and tolerant. "We do not make fun of grandma's silly belief" We play along as far as we can do so honestly. "We say things like 'Yes, I am a Scorpio Grandma.'" We don't have to believe that being born in November actually determines anything for us - but Grandma does, and we don't try to disabuse her of that notion.

Oh heck - that doesn't work at all, does it?

Branwyn, I don't know how you're going to handle it, but just from what I've seen of you on this board, I know you're going to do it beautifully. You will teach your children to be observant, introspective, open to ideas, tolerant of difference, and loving in all situations. I just know you will.

...


But it's potential conflicts like this that made minister-me and my husband-the-athiest decide not to have kids.

 

[Philothei]

I understand why you do not want to hurt your mom's feelings. I had the opposite situation ...hehehe. My Dad was the agnostic/theist and I was the Christian . My mom raised us Eastern Orthodox but not too religious either... Yet despite my father's endless converstations about "God is the force...out there somewhere", to his suprise I ended up studing Theology. Now the debates were getting endless since that time and finally he "deconverted" to Christianity. So.... what I think as a kid that was raised to doubt everything literally... is that kids will do what kids want to do...

There is no quarantee for your child to be a theist or a Christian or anything else just because you "raise them as such" example is your own self.

I think you should tell your mom that when you have kids you will let them decide what they want to believe. I also think it is important to have a "world religions" approach with them.. it does not hurt at all. It actually helps them to investigate themselves for it.

Also Christianity at an early age give the opportunity of experiencing the spiritual reality that it is all present in us... Actually no matter what religion we chose or not. if you chose not to introduce it (since you yourself do not believe it) someone else will for sure and it would be better to be your mother than anyone else IMHO.

I personally explored Hinduism and Buddism before I realized that my Christianity was the only truth.

 

[Braunwyn]

Sit back with your eyes closed and imagine for a while that your mom had a deeply held belief in astrology.

Just breathe in and out and imagine it.

Now - would you not teach your children to be kind and tolerant. "We do not make fun of grandma's silly belief" We play along as far as we can do so honestly. "We say things like 'Yes, I am a Scorpio Grandma.'" We don't have to believe that being born in November actually determines anything for us - but Grandma does, and we don't try to disabuse her of that notion.
Oh heck - that doesn't work at all, does it?

That made me crack up. Fair point.

Branwyn, I don't know how you're going to handle it, but just from what I've seen of you on this board, I know you're going to do it beautifully. You will teach your children to be observant, introspective, open to ideas, tolerant of difference, and loving in all situations. I just know you will.

Awe, thanks. That's sweet of you to say.

But it's potential conflicts like this that made minister-me and my husband-the-athiest decide not to have kids.

That certainly can make things easier.

 

[Tenka]

I still remember my young cousins lecturing me at length exactly how, as an atheist, I hated God and why I couldn't hear him but then, with genuine excitement, how he would talk to my heart if only I would repent for all my lousy atheist hate....they honestly couldn't understand why I wasn't overjoyed by the news.

Fast forward to their catastrophic deconversions in early teen years coinciding with the discovery of teenage boys. To my amusement.

I worry about people poisoning my kid's minds with religious nonsense and turning them into abominable little moralisers and truthists.

 

[Braunwyn]

I worry about people poisoning my kid's minds with religious nonsense and turning them into abominable little moralisers and truthists.

I'm not sure what you mean by the bolded portion here but this brings up an idea of how atheist children could/should generally conduct themselves in a theistic society. From time to time I come across news reports of clashes in schools and within communities. I find that to be problematic. I think it's important for atheist children to be tolerant, respectful and perhaps appreciative of the beliefs held by others. Although, that's probably difficult given that our society tends to stray from tolerance often.

OTOH, revanneosl made such a great point. I'm not as tolerant when it comes to things like astrology, although maybe I would be if a majority of society held those beliefs.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

I was talking with my mother tonight and she shared a super-secret piece of gossip with me. My cousin’s child asked her grandma (my aunt) whom Jesus was/is. He’s about 5 or 6 years old. My mom went on for about 10-15 minutes about raising my brother and me with Christ in our lives, etc. I’ve told her in the past that I’m an atheist but she simply will not accept it. She has stated, “No, you’re not”. I don’t want to hurt her so I don’t bring it up. I attend church with her and will do so this Christmas. If/when I have children, this is going to be a sticky situation. Is it possible to teach a young child to have couth when it comes to the deeply held beliefs of others?

Generally, I don’t fib but when it comes to stuff like this I just keep my mouth shut. It means so much to my mom. Her faith is very important to her and I respect that. I think she needs it and I would never take on the enormous and possibly detrimental responsibility of challenging her faith. However, I certainly cannot teach my children to believe in something I don’t believe. In addition, I wouldn’t really want her to know that my children will be raised with out monotheism. Of course, maybe I’ll never have children so I’m worrying for nothing. I just thought I would post this any way.

What do you think?

I go to plays with some of my friends. One of them had a bunch of humans dressed up like cats and singing. On the way back home, one of them started singing some of the songs from the play.

I mumbled along as if I knew those songs and everyone seemed so happy.

Make believe sometimes does not hurt you.

I handled the Church thing the same way when I was an atheist. I didn't desire anything more than just tolerating the time in the pews.

If you are a true atheist, then Church is harmless to you and your chosen belief systems.

Or, tell your mother to buzz off when it gets too much.

I did both.

 

[brightmorningstar]

Great post Philotei,
I agree. I was brought up to believe but turned away when I had the choice. When I had people praying for me and witnessing to me I had the chance to investigate and think for myself. Its then I came to believe and accepted Jesus Christ as Lord.

Same with the child, she didnt have to believe, she came to not just from academic knowledge but also according to her testimony from our example and how we lived out our lives.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Great post Philotei,
I agree. I was brought up to believe but turned away when I had the choice. When I had people praying for me and witnessing to me I had the chance to investigate and think for myself. Its then I came to believe and accepted Jesus Christ as Lord.

Same with the child, she didnt have to believe, she came to not just from academic knowledge but also according to her testimony from our example and how we lived out our lives.

Jesus is the original pro choice.

And notice it was "life."