Few will be saved?

Oldmantook · Oct 2, 2017

Jason0047 said:
Matthew 7:13 is tied to Jesus telling believers to depart from Him because they worked iniquity or sin (Matthew 7:23). Verse 26-27 says that he that does not do what Jesus says is like a fool who built his house upon the sand and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house (Matthew 7:26-27).

Most churches today believe in Once Saved Always Saved. They preach that you can sin on some level and still be saved. But if a person were to just read and believe their own Bible, they would come to find that the majority of the churches are wrong.

I mean, think about it. It is easy to do evil. So preaching a gospel that caters to men's sins is appealing to folks. But Jesus says narrow is the way that leads unto life. He says we will know false prophets by their fruit. False prophets are those who are teaching a gospel that leads people into sin and they themselves are servants or slaves to sin. Yet, Paul says we are to be slaves to righteousness in Romans 6.

Yes you're correct. I used to read those passages in Matthew and interpreting them as applying to unbelievers as that is what I was taught. When I studied them as well other scriptures for myself I came to the opposite conclusion. It took a long time however because of the baggage I had to unlearn first. That's why it's so hard for people to accept that OSAS is not true as we tend to accept what we're taught. Only a few find it not only pertains to unbelievers but believers also. Many believe but do not obey as ongoing obedience is a requirement for eternal life (Heb 5:9).

claninja · Oct 2, 2017

mmbattlestar said:
What did Jesus mean when he said "few will be saved?" There are billions of Christians out there! Christianity is the largest religion in the world! So surely many will be saved? What are we missing? Discuss.

Matthew 7:14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Matthew 22:14 many are invited but few are chosen
Luke 13:23 Someone asked him, “Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?”

Who are the few who find life and many who find destruction in the context of these passages? All believers who have ever existed world wide? Possibly, but in context with the audience, it appears to be more so about the few (remnant) elect Jews who would find life, while the majority of the Israel would face God's wrath.
Romans 9:27-28
Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea,
only the remnant will be saved. 28For the Lord will carry out his sentence on earth with speed and finality.”k

Christ taught that many would actually find a place at the table in the kingdom of heaven. But the many, were typically in reference to the gentiles.

Matthew 8:10-12
When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. 11I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Matthew 21:43-44
“Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit. 44Anyone who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; anyone on whom it falls will be crushed.”I

All this would be to fulfill Isaiah 65:1
I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me;
I was found by those who did not seek me.
To a nation that did not call on my name,
I said, ‘Here am I, here am I.’

Bible Highlighter · Oct 2, 2017

yeshuaslavejeff said:
As written in Scripture, TORAH is good, right, true, and faithful, leading to Christ.

So much is not understood, since "TORAH" is not translated in most english....

examples from biblegateway:
Romans 2:13-15Tree of Life Version (TLV)
13 For it is not the hearers of Torah who are righteous before God; rather, it is the doers of Torah who will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the Torah, do by nature the things of the Torah, they are a law to themselves even though they do not have the Torah. 15 They show that the work of the Torah is written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts switching between accusing or defending them ... ... ..

Romans 2:14 - Bible Gateway
Romans 2:14 - Bible Gateway - Cached - Similar
For whenever Gentiles, who have no Torah, do naturally what the Torah requires, then these, even though they don't have Torah, for themselves are Torah! CEV.

Romans 10:4 TLV - For Messiah is the goal of the Torah as - Bible ...
Romans...version - - Bible Gateway... - Cached
For Messiah is the goal of the Torah as a means to righteousness for everyone who keeps trusting.

Romans 7:22-24 TLV - For I delight in the Torah of ... - Bible Gateway
Romans...24 - - Bible Gateway... - Cached
For I delight in the Torah of God with respect to the inner man, but I see a different law in my body parts, battling against the law of my mind and.

(etc etc etc ..... possibly over 100 occurences of "TORAH" in OT and NT)

Romans 8:4 says that there is a "righteousness of the Law" that we are to fulfill. I believe Romans 8:4 says that we are to obey the moral law (i.e. to love your neighbor - Romans 13:8-10) and we are not to obey the ceremonial laws (laws on animal sacrifices, dietary laws), and the judicial laws from the OT Law. For Christ nailed to the cross those ordinances that were against us (Colossians 2:14). For Paul condemned circumcision salvationism, and God told Peter to eat unclean animals; And at the cross (when Christ died), the temple veil was torn from top to bottom (ending the laws on animal sacrifices).

yeshuaslavejeff · Oct 2, 2017

He did not say,
nor is it written,
only that few Jews will be saved;

but that few will be saved (of any people).

"Narrow is the Way that leads to LIFE, and few are there who find it" (ever over all);
"Wide (and popular) is the way that leads to death, and many are (and remain) on it"
From all the world, all along....

Bible Highlighter · Oct 2, 2017

Oldmantook said:
Yes you're correct. I used to read those passages in Matthew and interpreting them as applying to unbelievers as that is what I was taught. When I studied them as well other scriptures for myself I came to the opposite conclusion. It took a long time however because of the baggage I had to unlearn first. That's why it's so hard for people to accept that OSAS is not true as we tend to accept what we're taught. Only a few find it not only pertains to unbelievers but believers also. Many believe but do not obey as ongoing obedience is a requirement for eternal life (Heb 5:9).

I am so happy God spoke to your heart about the truth of the Scriptures on this matter.
Anyways, we have to pray for them, my brother. We should always strive to be loving and good with them.
I used to think I could be rich and also serve Jesus, but God showed me otherwise.
So it takes time for God to talk to people's hearts I think. We have to pray and be patient. For one plants seeds and another waters, but it is God that gives the increase.

We should never lose sight of that which is good (Which comes from the Lord).

God bless you, brother;
And thank you for your words.

Paul of Eugene OR · Oct 2, 2017

mmbattlestar said:
Well when Christ was on the Earth nobody was saved.

Sure they were.

Luke 19:8-9
8 Zaccheus stopped and said to the Lord, "Behold, Lord, half of my possessions I will give to the poor, and if I have defrauded anyone of anything, I will give back four times as much."

9 And Jesus said to him, "Today salvation has come to this house, because he, too, is a son of Abraham.
NASU

yeshuaslavejeff · Oct 2, 2017

Jason0047 said:
Romans 8:4 says that there is a "righteousness of the Law" that we are to fulfill. I believe Romans 8:4 says that we are to obey the moral law (i.e. to love your neighbor - Romans 13:8-10) and we are not to obey the ceremonial laws (laws on animal sacrifices, dietary laws), and the judicial laws from the OT Law. For Christ nailed to the cross those ordinances that were against us (Colossians 2:14). For Paul condemned circumcision salvationism, and God told Peter to eat unclean animals; And at the cross (when Christ died), the temple veil was torn from top to bottom (ending the laws on animal sacrifices).

There's too many errors or mistakes here to even try to begin to address in this thread.

Most (maybe all) of them have already been accurately dealt with in other places though.

If one by itself comes up again, in this or another thread, YHWH Willing it can be addressed again.

yeshuaslavejeff · Oct 2, 2017

Paul of Eugene OR said:
Sure they were.

Luke 19:8-9
8 Zaccheus stopped and said to the Lord, "Behold, Lord, half of my possessions I will give to the poor, and if I have defrauded anyone of anything, I will give back four times as much."

9 And Jesus said to him, "Today salvation has come to this house, because he, too, is a son of Abraham.
NASU

GOOD ! And somewhere isn't it written that Jesus said to His faithful disciples: "you are ALREADY IN THE KINGDOM, now START LIVING LIKE IT" ?

Likewise in many places in TORAH/ OT/ NT/ YHWH'S people are called holy, perfect, blameless, set apart, righteous, and faithful !?

Thus IN SCRIPTURE is where to look and seek for YHWH'S description of HIS people, and not all around us.
IN SCRIPTURE is the TRUTH, unchanged, and unchangeable.

1stcenturylady · Oct 2, 2017

SeventyOne · Oct 2, 2017

mmbattlestar said:
What did Jesus mean when he said "few will be saved?" There are billions of Christians out there! Christianity is the largest religion in the world! So surely many will be saved? What are we missing? Discuss.

You've had a little bit of everything on this thread so far, some gospel-based and some works-based claims. Take note of those professing works to either be saved or to maintain salvation, because they'll likely be among the many who miss it. That's a clever deception which will cause many a 'christian' to wake up in hell one day, as will all those who place even a little of their faith in themselves to be saved. There are 'few' who will be able to take themselves out of the equation.

1stcenturylady · Oct 2, 2017

SeventyOne said:
You've had a little bit of everything on this thread so far, some gospel-based and some works-based claims. Take note of those professing works to either be saved or to maintain salvation, because they'll likely be among the many who miss it. That's a clever deception which will cause many a 'christian' to wake up in hell one day, as will all those who place even a little of their faith in themselves to be saved. There are 'few' who will be able to take themselves out of the equation.

Do you believe to consciously walk in the Spirit and not commit sin, a work? If not, then we are on the same page.

RaymondG · Oct 2, 2017

Jason0047 said:
Besides, how on Earth do you even understand or interpret 1 John 4:3 as talking in the present tense? What does that even mean to you in your universe? Most Christians believe that this is talking about the Incarnation (Which is pretty clear by a normal straight forward reading of the text). What do you think it says?

I did not say what tense I thought it was....you are assuming. And I like "Has come" as well.....which is still not "came" I think it best to quote scripture as is, and not adjust it to your personal interpretation.

I am not like most Christians, nor do I try to be. It is best what you let God reveal meanings to you, or go with your own interpretation rather than I try to explain...

Oldmantook · Oct 2, 2017

SeventyOne said:
You've had a little bit of everything on this thread so far, some gospel-based and some works-based claims. Take note of those professing works to either be saved or to maintain salvation, because they'll likely be among the many who miss it. That's a clever deception which will cause many a 'christian' to wake up in hell one day, as will all those who place even a little of their faith in themselves to be saved. There are 'few' who will be able to take themselves out of the equation.

So James was incorrrect when he wrote Js 2:24?

1stcenturylady · Oct 2, 2017

Jason0047 said:
"But every person who doesn't declare that Jesus Christ has come as a human has a spirit that isn't from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist that you have heard is coming. That spirit is already in the world." (1 John 4:3) (GWT).

"And no spirit that does not confess that Yeshua has come in the flesh is from God, but this is from that False Messiah, him whom you have heard that he will come, and already he is in the world." (1 John 4:3) (ABPE).

"and every spirit who doesn't confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God, and this is the spirit of the Antichrist, of whom you have heard that it comes. Now it is in the world already." (1 John 4:3) (WEB).

"And every spirit which does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh, is not of God; and this is that spirit that is of Antichrist, of whom you heard that he would come. And even now already, he is in the world." (1 John 4:3) (NMB)

"and every spirit that does not confess Jesus [acknowledging that He has come in the flesh, but would deny any of the Son’s true nature] is not of God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming, and is now already in the world." (1 John 4:3) (AMP).

"and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and is already in the world." (1 John 4:3) (MEV).

The words "has come" is past tense.
Besides, how on Earth do you even understand or interpret 1 John 4:3 as talking in the present tense? What does that even mean to you in your universe? Most Christians believe that this is talking about the Incarnation (Which is pretty clear by a normal straight forward reading of the text). What do you think it says?

Yes, Jason, when John wrote this, he was battling the Gnostics who did not believe Jesus came in the flesh, but only in spirit, and misinterpret scripture and say that our spirit is dead to sin and is saved, but our flesh will die and grace covers sins of the flesh, like fornication. That is a spirit of antichrist, and not what Jesus represents - a license to sin. Unfortunately, that spirit is still with us in easy Christianity, like OSAS. But there will be an Antichrist - one person who is the son of perdition.

SeventyOne · Oct 2, 2017

Oldmantook said:
So James was incorrrect when he wrote Js 2:24?

No. Just those who imply it is pertaining to justification before God are incorrect. A saving faith will have works accompanying it. James 2:17 is one of those keys that clarifies what James in referencing in verse 24.

SeventyOne · Oct 2, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
Do you believe to consciously walk in the Spirit and not commit sin, a work? If not, then we are on the same page.

Not living a lifestyle of unrepentant sin, not completely sin-free.

1stcenturylady · Oct 2, 2017

mmbattlestar said:
What did Jesus mean when he said "few will be saved?" There are billions of Christians out there! Christianity is the largest religion in the world! So surely many will be saved? What are we missing? Discuss.

If you want to know who in the Church will be saved, it will be those who are dead to sin, Romans 6:2. Also, they are in the Spirit, not in the flesh, Romans 8:8-9. They do not commit willful sin, 1 John 3:4-10. And they believe in the name of Jesus Christ and love their neighbor as themselves. 1 John 3:23.

Simple? No! That is why there are few that are truly saved.

If anyone objects to these texts, think again, you may be in the "many." There are many false doctrines out there of easy Christianity. Beware of those wolves in sheep's clothing.

Thir7ySev3n · Oct 2, 2017

Two things to consider:

1. Not all who claim to belong to Christ actually do.

2. Even if there were 2 billion authentic Christians in the world, 2 out of 7/8 leaves less than a third of the world saved. That sounds like the few to me.

1stcenturylady · Oct 2, 2017

Thir7ySev3n said:
Two things to consider:

1. Not all who claim to belong to Christ actually do.

2. Even if there were 2 billion authentic Christians in the world, 2 out of 7/8 leaves less than a third of the world saved. That sounds like the few to me.

No one knows what "few" is to God, relative to what. But He did say to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. So if you are not willing to lay down your life for Christ, but to take the mark of the beast because it will save your life, you are not worthy of Him. (I use the word "you" in a worldwide sense, not you, personally. LOL)

Neostarwcc · Oct 2, 2017

Thir7ySev3n said:
Two things to consider:

1. Not all who claim to belong to Christ actually do.

2. Even if there were 2 billion authentic Christians in the world, 2 out of 7/8 leaves less than a third of the world saved. That sounds like the few to me.

That's true. I didn't think of it that way.

Few will be saved?

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