Feminism viewed from a Christian perspective: Good? Bad? Something else?

Mairie · Aug 2, 2013

RealFaith said:
Not true! Today I would say that men are much more oppressed than women. The media has worked its socks off to convince us that women are oppressed, when actually it's the other way around.

In what way? White males are the most privileged human beings on this earth. Unless you are speaking from the experience of a minority group in which you have experienced racism and marginalization, I would beg to differ.

Have you ever been wolf whistled at every time you walk down the street? Have you ever been sexually harassed and put into physical danger? Had completely inappropriate comments made about the shape of your body? Do you carry pepper spray with you? Been told you can't be a leader at church even though it's your area of talent? I could go on.

Trailltrader · Aug 2, 2013

RealFaith said:
If the kids wasn't yours, how can they make you pay? Isn't that illegal?

Moonpup's response was 100% right. Not only that but in Washington, California and Oregon if you live with a woman with kids for 6 months the guy gets tagged with the child support. The theory is "Well, a relationship now exists where you're the father- so you should pay".

This is why I highly encourage young men who do not have self control to put their sperm on ice at a hospital and get a vasectomy. That way when she says "I'm pregnant" he can say "Do you know who the father is? its not me and I can prove it"

But what goes around, comes around- you'll find that women who are 40+ who are looking for a relationship won't find one. Why? The men have been worked over in divorce courts, have given up their houses- now the kids are out of college, they've collected the toys they want, they party with their friends and if they want to date they'll take out a much younger woman ("arm candy" is the slang term) and when they're tired of her they'll kick her to the curb. Men who are 50+ usually have no desire for a relationship.

Trailltrader · Aug 2, 2013

RealFaith said:
If the kids wasn't yours, how can they make you pay? Isn't that illegal?

Mairie said:
In what way? White males are the most privileged human beings on this earth. Unless you are speaking from the experience of a minority group in which you have experienced racism and marginalization, I would beg to differ.

Have you ever been wolf whistled at every time you walk down the street? Have you ever been sexually harassed and put into physical danger? Had completely inappropriate comments made about the shape of your body? Do you carry pepper spray with you? Been told you can't be a leader at church even though it's your area of talent? I could go on.

Have you lost 50% of your retirement, 50% of your income due to spousal support, have you lost your house? Sorry- if the worst thing that's happened to you is some guy swats you on the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], or whistles at you while he's living in his car because he can't pay rent I have a very hard time feeling sorry for you.

As far as physical danger? Why haven't you contacted the local pistol range with NRA instructors who will give you for a nominal cost a 16 hour pistol class? Why do we have to protect you?

God created man, Samuel Colt made them equal- 1880 quote on firearms ownership

RealFaith · Aug 2, 2013

Mairie said:
In what way? White males are the most privileged human beings on this earth. Unless you are speaking from the experience of a minority group in which you have experienced racism and marginalization, I would beg to differ.

Have you ever been wolf whistled at every time you walk down the street? Have you ever been sexually harassed and put into physical danger? Had completely inappropriate comments made about the shape of your body? Do you carry pepper spray with you? Been told you can't be a leader at church even though it's your area of talent? I could go on.

What you're talking about is harassment, not oppression.

RealFaith · Aug 2, 2013

Trailltrader said:
Moonpup's response was 100% right. Not only that but in Washington, California and Oregon if you live with a woman with kids for 6 months the guy gets tagged with the child support. The theory is "Well, a relationship now exists where you're the father- so you should pay".

This is why I highly encourage young men who do not have self control to put their sperm on ice at a hospital and get a vasectomy. That way when she says "I'm pregnant" he can say "Do you know who the father is? its not me and I can prove it"

But what goes around, comes around- you'll find that women who are 40+ who are looking for a relationship won't find one. Why? The men have been worked over in divorce courts, have given up their houses- now the kids are out of college, they've collected the toys they want, they party with their friends and if they want to date they'll take out a much younger woman ("arm candy" is the slang term) and when they're tired of her they'll kick her to the curb. Men who are 50+ usually have no desire for a relationship.

Dam, I thought England was bad!

Mairie · Aug 2, 2013

Trailltrader said:
Have you lost 50% of your retirement, 50% of your income due to spousal support, have you lost your house? Sorry- if the worst thing that's happened to you is some guy swats you on the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], or whistles at you while he's living in his car because he can't pay rent I have a very hard time feeling sorry for you.

As far as physical danger? Why haven't you contacted the local pistol range with NRA instructors who will give you for a nominal cost a 16 hour pistol class? Why do we have to protect you?

God created man, Samuel Colt made them equal- 1880 quote on firearms ownership

I'm truly sorry for all your financially woes--really. You definitely aren't the only one in this world who's gone broke for very unfair reasons. I'm not downplaying your experience and I ask that you don't downplay mine. We don't need to feel sorry for each other. You don't understand what I'm saying. I don't WANT men to protect me. I just want them to stop treating me like a piece of meat. I'm not an object. You would never understand the worst thing that's happened to me, and I'm not about to post it here for everyone's scrutiny.

Again, sorry some women have taken advantage of you. You're bitter and projecting your own woes onto issues you don't understand. Personal baggage will do that. But the fact that you're so incredibly hung up on money and can't even start to understand anything I've been saying this entire thread makes me not take you seriously. You've written off some very serious issues while trying to make your own troubles seem like the most important. Bad things happen to all of us, and we should take them all into thoughtful consideration, don't you think?

Mairie · Aug 2, 2013

RealFaith said:
What you're talking about is harassment, not oppression.

What I described is the norm for how women are treated. It is not the norm for men. When you add up the way in which women are continually treated throughout the world--yes, they are oppressed.

You didn't answer my question--how are white males more oppressed than the entirety of women? That's a massive claim with absolutely zero evidence to back it up.

Trailltrader · Aug 2, 2013

Mairie said:
Again, sorry some women have taken advantage of you. You're bitter and projecting your own woes onto issues you don't understand. Personal baggage will do that. But the fact that you're so incredibly hung up on money and can't even start to understand anything I've been saying this entire thread makes me not take you seriously. You've written off some very serious issues while trying to make your own troubles seem like the most important. Bad things happen to all of us, and we should take them all into thoughtful consideration, don't you think?

Typical liberal response- when given facts, and asked pointed questions, the questions are deflected and twisted into a personal attack by "pity" (I'm so sorry) and by "You don't understand..."

What a condescending attitude. This is why when men want a wife we now go to Russia, Asia or South America- you wanted equal rights with men well you have them- in general, American women's rights have been offshored to third party vendors.

PersephonesTear · Aug 2, 2013

There is nothing fair or pretty about anything that deals with child support, custody issues, or any issue relating to children in a divorce. But the fact is, the laws in place are not designed to protect men, nor are they designed to protect women. They are made to do what is best for the child - no matter who else gets hurt in the process.

RealFaith · Aug 2, 2013

Mairie said:
What I described is the norm for how women are treated. It is not the norm for men. When you add up the way in which women are continually treated throughout the world--yes, they are oppressed.

You didn't answer my question--how are white males more oppressed than the entirety of women? That's a massive claim with absolutely zero evidence to back it up.

Again, what you described was harassment, not oppression. And why are you going on about white males? Do black males not count? Men in general, in the West, are more oppressed than women.

willlowbee · Aug 2, 2013

I do not think Feminism can be viewed from that Christian perspective. Because Feminism empowers women and that can be very frightening to those who enjoy the power and the privilege that is sponsored by Patriarchal ideologies. Like the Christian perspective.

“I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is: I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat.” Rebecca West

Mairie · Aug 2, 2013

Trailltrader said:
Typical liberal response- when given facts, and asked pointed questions, the questions are deflected and twisted into a personal attack by "pity" (I'm so sorry) and by "You don't understand..."

What a condescending attitude. This is why when men want a wife we now go to Russia, Asia or South America- you wanted equal rights with men well you have them- in general, American women's rights have been offshored to third party vendors.

What pointed questions have you asked me personally? I really am sorry about your situation and you really don't understand what I'm trying to tell you. Yes, I am liberal; nothing wrong with that. You've been nothing but hostile toward issues that effect a lot of people, while being pretty condescending yourself in the process. Sorry to bother you so much by being a feminist on a thread about feminism.

Mairie · Aug 2, 2013

RealFaith said:
Again, what you described was harassment, not oppression. And why are you going on about white males? Do black males not count? Men in general, in the West, are more oppressed than women.

I'm going on about white males because if you are a white male you have no clue, as a general people group, what oppression is nor have you experienced it. White males are at the top of the hierarchy. Answer my questions please. I asked you to tell me *how* you think the male gender as a whole is more oppressed. Give me an example. Black men don't "count" because black men and men in other minority groups do indeed know and have experienced what oppression is. Experiencing sexism every day, being raped and then blamed for it, not being allowed in positions of power, and being treated like crap is most certainly oppression. Harassment comes with the territory, for sure. Usually men are doing the harassing in these instances. Not all the time.

RealFaith · Aug 2, 2013

Mairie said:
I'm going on about white males because if you are a white male you have no clue, as a general people group, what oppression is nor have you experienced it. White males are at the top of the hierarchy. Answer my questions please. I asked you to tell me *how* you think the male gender as a whole is more oppressed. Give me an example. Black men don't "count" because black men and men in other minority groups do indeed know and have experienced what oppression is. Experiencing sexism every day, being raped and then blamed for it, not being allowed in positions of power, and being treated like crap is most certainly oppression. Harassment comes with the territory, for sure. Usually men are doing the harassing in these instances. Not all the time.

If you want to talk about male oppression, let's start with the family courts. Do I seriously need to explain?

Mairie · Aug 2, 2013

So all males, even those who are happily married, and those without families, are oppressed by the family courts? Sounds more like divorced men with children are oppressed to me. Next example?

You can't look at the experience of women as a whole throughout history and not see the oppression. I've given example after example throughout this thread. Go to India or the Middle East for extreme examples, although it definitely happens in first world countries, too. Like I said, I'm not downplaying any issues here, but its just a fact that men have historically always been in the positions of power and women haven't. I'm not saying that some groups of men don't experience oppression, but as a whole, the most privileged group at the top of the hierarchy are, indeed, male.

RealFaith · Aug 2, 2013

Mairie said:
So all males, even those who are happily married, and those without families, are oppressed by the family courts? Sounds more like divorced men with children are oppressed to me. Next example?

You can't look at the experience of women as a whole throughout history and not see the oppression. I've given example after example throughout this thread. Go to India or the Middle East for extreme examples, although it definitely happens in first world countries, too. Like I said, I'm not downplaying any issues here, but its just a fact that men have historically always been in the positions of power and women haven't. I'm not saying that some groups of men don't experience oppression, but as a whole, the most privileged group at the top of the hierarchy are, indeed, male.

I'm not talking about the Middle East, I'm talking about the West. Family courts oppress ALL men who have a family. The reason God put men in charge is because it was Eve who was deceived. Men, for thousands of years, had to work very hard to support their families. Now that women are gaining equality, things have gone down hill. It's mostly women who vote for gay marriage and abortion. Women make decisions with their emotions. They vote for the things that hurt marriage and family. Gay marriage and abortion. We didn't have this when men were in charge. You haven't been oppressed, you have been helped and supported by men.

Mairie · Aug 3, 2013

RealFaith said:
I'm not talking about the Middle East, I'm talking about the West. Family courts oppress ALL men who have a family. The reason God put men in charge is because it was Eve who was deceived. Men, for thousands of years, had to work very hard to support their families. Now that women are gaining equality, things have gone down hill. It's mostly women who vote for gay marriage and abortion. Women make decisions with their emotions. They vote for the things that hurt marriage and family. Gay marriage and abortion. We didn't have this when men were in charge. You haven't been oppressed, you have been helped and supported by men.

So you're going to discount the oppression of women in third world nations and everywhere it happens because family courts in the west are hard on men? I'm not saying its an issue you have to get super involved in, but to write it off because of an issue you're passionate about seems pretty demeaning to me. It's also obviously an issue of theology going on here...putting the blame on women for the entire problem of sin is pretty problematic, especially since both Adam and Eve sinned and were given due punishment. Doesn't matter who came first, who sinned first...people have been playing the blame game since the beginning. And we've all had our troubles since then...but the thing is, men aren't required by anyone to have families, and they've had to work hard to support them because women haven't been allowed to help with that for most of history, even when they wanted to, putting pressure on the male to provide. You're blaming women for that because Eve sinned, which is such a vicious cycle of blame.

There is truly nothing new under the sun, so things aren't "going downhill" so much as they're just shifting into new paradigms, which come with a new set of complications. You're VASTLY generalizing women here--women are just as capable of making thoughtful and informed decisions as men are, and it's pretty telling that you seem to view all women as "emotional" and unable to function without men "in charge." That's such a sexist viewpoint. There were absolutely homosexuals (who were criminalized) and abortions back when "men were in charge." Women are not solely responsible for the existence of gay marriage, my goodness what an inaccurate statement. Seriously? So no men have voted for gay marriage? I know plenty of men who would beg to differ. You feel that as a male you're oppressed because of gay marriage (which doesn't concern you) and abortion (which is incredibly evil, but also doesn't concern you)? How are males oppressed by gay marriage and abortion? Don't you think the unborn children are the oppressed ones in that situation? As well as the gays who are treated like sub-humans in Christian culture? They've never been oppressed but you're oppressed because they exist?

Judging from your comments, there's a lot going on that you either don't have much info on or just choose to ignore. Blaming and scapegoating women for the world's problems is very oppressive toward them. I'm not sure if society or religion taught you that or what, but it's a pretty inaccurate worldview and really pretty offensive and oppressive. I'm not mad or anything, just pretty floored.

RealFaith · Aug 3, 2013

Mairie said:
So you're going to discount the oppression of women in third world nations and everywhere it happens because family courts in the west are hard on men? I'm not saying its an issue you have to get super involved in, but to write it off because of an issue you're passionate about seems pretty demeaning to me. It's also obviously an issue of theology going on here...putting the blame on women for the entire problem of sin is pretty problematic, especially since both Adam and Eve sinned and were given due punishment. Doesn't matter who came first, who sinned first...people have been playing the blame game since the beginning. And we've all had our troubles since then...but the thing is, men aren't required by anyone to have families, and they've had to work hard to support them because women haven't been allowed to help with that for most of history, even when they wanted to, putting pressure on the male to provide. You're blaming women for that because Eve sinned, which is such a vicious cycle of blame.

There is truly nothing new under the sun, so things aren't "going downhill" so much as they're just shifting into new paradigms, which come with a new set of complications. You're VASTLY generalizing women here--women are just as capable of making thoughtful and informed decisions as men are, and it's pretty telling that you seem to view all women as "emotional" and unable to function without men "in charge." That's such a sexist viewpoint. There were absolutely homosexuals (who were criminalized) and abortions back when "men were in charge." Women are not solely responsible for the existence of gay marriage, my goodness what an inaccurate statement. Seriously? So no men have voted for gay marriage? I know plenty of men who would beg to differ. You feel that as a male you're oppressed because of gay marriage (which doesn't concern you) and abortion (which is incredibly evil, but also doesn't concern you)? How are males oppressed by gay marriage and abortion? Don't you think the unborn children are the oppressed ones in that situation? As well as the gays who are treated like sub-humans in Christian culture? They've never been oppressed but you're oppressed because they exist?

Judging from your comments, there's a lot going on that you either don't have much info on or just choose to ignore. Blaming and scapegoating women for the world's problems is very oppressive toward them. I'm not sure if society or religion taught you that or what, but it's a pretty inaccurate worldview and really pretty offensive and oppressive. I'm not mad or anything, just pretty floored.

The apostle Paul said that it was Eve who was deceived. After sin, God told Eve that Adam would rule over her (Genesis 3:16). I said rule, not oppress. Women make decisions with their emotions. And even though there are men today who vote for gay marriage and abortion, this was originally instigated by the feminist movement. It was women, after been given the right to vote, who originally pushed for these things. Since the feminist movement, women have been using their authority to oppress men any way they can.

For thousands of years it was natural for the man to be the provider. In those days computers and machinery didn't exist. Most jobs were very physical. It made sense that the man would be the one to graft. The women would be the ones to bring up the children and look after the house. In fact, 1 Timothy 2:15 says that women will be saved in childbearing, meaning that the role of women is to bear children and look after the house. Many women don't do this today because technology has enabled more women to do less physical jobs, but for thousands of years there was no technology, and work was very physical so the men would usually be the ones to do it. That's not oppression, that's just common sense. Don't like it? Take it up with God.

I'm not saying women were NEVER oppressed. I'm saying that they were nowhere near as oppressed as what the feminist and liberal media would have us believe. Once you do critical thinking, you realize that the mainstream media is a propaganda machine, and the one thing that is being attacked the most is the minds of women. There is an agenda to entice women against men, to make them compete. Men are called the oppressors, and women are happy to swallow the drivel. But I can see through the propaganda. It's men who are being oppressed. Oppressed in the family courts and treated like second class citizens. Western society bends over backwards to help women, but not men. That's what I call oppression. Women have it much easier in our Western culture.

Trailltrader · Aug 3, 2013

Marine, all I was saying is you're comparing being whistled at vs. men getting the tar beaten out of them in divorce court. You're comparing apples to oranges. Now if you're looking at the whole world may I gently and lovingly remind you that this whole planet has been turned over to satan? So of course its going to be screwed up

mandyangel · Aug 3, 2013

What is wrong with a guy whistling at you? I'd take that's a compliment. I don't profess to hold authority over men and I wouldn't want to. In God's kingdom, men have power and authority over us as they should on earth. It's not our place to hold positions of high power. We should focus on what were meant here to do and its nothing to do with where feminists have taken us. JMHO

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