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stumpjumper said:I don't believe in OSAS as I do believe that we can turn from God and reject God's grace.
But if we keep our hope and faith in Christ, I do not think that it is a false hope:
[bible]Romans 8:38-39[/bible]
OrthodoxyUSA said:They certainly did fall away... but not everyone who has fallen away was a wolf. Many are sheep that the wolves desire to devour.
Forgive me....
a_ntv said:Ok, you are not saved bc of your intellectual believe or bc your faith, that are effects and not causes.
Now you are saved for the ethernity, bc of a mechanical deed like to wet into the water (baptism)?
Or simply bc you are born predestinated?
I really cant undestand calvinists...
stumpjumper said:I don't believe in OSAS as I do believe that we can turn from God and reject God's grace.
But if we keep our hope and faith in Christ, I do not think that it is a false hope:
[bible]Romans 8:38-39[/bible]
seekingpurity047 said:Foolishness! By not believing OSAS, you are denying Rom. 8:38-39.
For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[m] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
This includes ourselves.
stumpjumper said:I don't believe in OSAS as I do believe that we can turn from God and reject God's grace.
But if we keep our hope and faith in Christ, I do not think that it is a false hope:
[bible]Romans 8:38-39[/bible]
seekingpurity047 said:We are saved by Grace Alone, through Faith Alone, in Christ alone. As simple as that.
a_ntv said:No, Romans 8:38-39 is not a hope: this is a certainty.
But Romans 8-:38-39 do NOT list who actualy can separe us from Him: it is only ourself that can separe us form Him.
a_ntv said:I again cant undestand. You use a passive ('we are saved') not to be clear.
a_ntv said:God saves who? (with only his grace, that is ok)
a_ntv said:Who has a simply intellectual believe?
a_ntv said:Who has faith?
a_ntv said:Who makes a mechanical deed like to wet into the water (baptism)?
a_ntv said:Who tries to follow Him with all own heart and all own deeds?
a_ntv said:Anyone?
a_ntv said:Only who is born lucky and predestinated?
a_ntv said:Pax in Christ !
a_ntv said:No, Romans 8:38-39 is not a hope: this is a certainty.
But Romans 8-:38-39 do NOT list who actualy can separe us from Him: it is only ourself that can separe us form Him.
stumpjumper said:Romans 8:38-39 does not support OSAS.
stumpjumper said:It simply supports salvation by grace through faith. Paul was convinced in the love of God because of his faith not because he could not fall away. OSAS is contradicted flat out by a number of passages...
stumpjumper said:It includes ourselves IF we remain in faith, hope, and love.
stumpjumper said:OSAS presumes salvation and is flatly contradicted by other scripture that warns of falling away:
1 Cor. 10:12 (ESV)
Therefore let anyone who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall.
stumpjumper said:1 Peter 5:8 (ESV)
Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.
stumpjumper said:2 Peter 3:17 (ESV)
You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability.
stumpjumper said:Hebrews 2:1-3 (ESV)
Therefore we must pay much closer attention to what we have heard, lest we drift away from it. For since the message declared by angels proved to be reliable and every transgression or disobedience received a just retribution, how shall we escape if we neglect such a great salvation? It was declared at first by the Lord, and it was attested to us by those who heard.
stumpjumper said:Hebrews 3:12 (ESV)
Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God.
seekingpurity047 said:Yes it does. Read the text: "Nothing else in all creation." Umm... from what I understand, humans are part of creation.
Go ahead, rob God of His glory.
Which, if we are trusting in Christ alone for our salvation, will inevitably occur, therefore, the IF is irrelevant.
Fall from what? Fall into what? Into temptation? Hmm... fall into sin? When looking at the context of that verse, it says sin.
Neglection, read the whole passage again. It's telling us what will we do if we ignore such a wonderful gift which is the gift of salvation given to everyone who believes (Rom. 1:16).
Again, falling into sin.
seekingpurity047 said:God chooses, that's it. It's not a matter of luck. It's called unconditional election by His unconditional love.
To the glory of God,
Randy
A list of worthy quotes.Certainly they should be considered.If any have left the world for the sake of Christ,they must be vigilant,or wander off the path.There are a million side trips available.Some are hard to resist.How far off the path can one go before they have left it entirely?Will they be abandoned in the wilderness?If anyone knows for shure let me know.OrthodoxyUSA said:Surely not, at best we are working on it and hoping for it.
Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mar 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Luk 8:13 They on the rock [are they], which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
Phl 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Hbr 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Hbr 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.
Jud 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort [you] that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know [these things] before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
Act 27:20 And when neither sun nor stars in many days appeared, and no small tempest lay on [us], all hope that we should be saved was then taken away
Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
1Cr 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
2Cr 1:7 And our hope of you [is] stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so [shall ye be] also of the consolation.
Phl 1:20 According to my earnest expectation and [my] hope, that in nothing I shall be ashamed, but [that] with all boldness, as always, [so] now also Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether [it be] by life, or by death.
Col 1:5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, [and] which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
1Th 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
1Th 2:19 For what [is] our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? [Are] not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?
1Th 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
Tts 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
Tts 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Hbr 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
Hbr 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Hbr 6:18 That by two immutable things, in which [it was] impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
1Pe 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
Forgive me....
ETide said:FAITH is the substance (or assurance) of things HOPED for, the evidence of things not seen..
IT (FAITH) embraces the promises of GOD..
These are exceeding great and precious promises..
These now abide.. FAITH, HOPE and LOVE.. and the greatest of these is HIS perfect LOVE..
TruthMiner said:Our assurance is not a condition of staying united with Christ. Our assurance IS Christ himself. It is not a condition but a person. Since he is our assurance, and not a condition, we should remember his words:
"Remain in me."
He had a reason for teaching it.
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