FBI raid Mar-A-Lago

The Barbarian · Aug 15, 2022

Apparently, house democrats are seeking a damage assessment from the FBI and other agencies caused by the theft of classified documents. House republicans want to find out more about how the process of recovering the documents went.

Should be fun for everyone by Trump and his supporters.

Servus · Aug 15, 2022

Well we know it plus Jan 6 is going to be dragged out to November. About 80 more days to go.

The Barbarian · Aug 15, 2022

MMXX said:
Well we know it plus Jan 6 is going to be dragged out to November. About 80 more days to go.

It's doubtful of the courts are going to be able to process all the perps by then.

And a large majority of Americans are still looking to deal with the instigator...
Nearly 6 in 10 Americans say Trump should be criminally charged for his role in Jan. 6 riot
6 in 10 say Trump should face criminal charges for Jan 6 role: ABC poll

Servus · Aug 15, 2022

The Barbarian said:
It's doubtful of the courts are going to be able to process all the perps by then.

And a large majority of Americans are still looking to deal with the instigator...
Nearly 6 in 10 Americans say Trump should be criminally charged for his role in Jan. 6 riot
6 in 10 say Trump should face criminal charges for Jan 6 role: ABC poll

I'm saying the committee has about 80 days left before the midterms, in which some or all of them might get voted out of office. How this all goes between now and then could be a big factor in that outcome.

The Barbarian · Aug 15, 2022

MMXX said:
I'm saying the committee has about 80 days left before the midterms, in which some or all of them might get voted out of office.

At this point, the polls show that republicans once had a large lead, but have lost much or all of it, over the past few weeks. So it looks as though the committee has made a change for the better.

Democrats have gained ground against Republicans ahead of the midterm elections, with a new poll showing Democrats holding a 4 percentage point lead on a generic congressional ballot.

The USA Today-Suffolk University poll shows that 44 percent of respondents would vote for the Democratic candidate if the election for Congress were held today, compared to 40 percent who said they would back the Republican.

Roughly 16 percent said they were undecided.

The polling indicates movement for Democrats since last month, when voters were split 40 percent for each party, respectively, when asked the same question.
https://thehill.com/homenews/campai...-ground-on-generic-congressional-ballot-poll/

Because of Gerrymandering, democrats will need a larger lead to keep from losing seats. But the constant erosion of public support for republicans is worrying party leaders.

BPPLEE · Aug 16, 2022

MMXX said:
I'm saying the committee has about 80 days left before the midterms, in which some or all of them might get voted out of office. How this all goes between now and then could be a big factor in that outcome.

Looks like Liz Cheney is going to be gone.

The Barbarian · Aug 16, 2022

BPPLEE said:
Looks like Liz Cheney is going to be gone.

Yeah, she crossed a line when she decided the Constitution was more important than party affiliation.

RDKirk · Aug 16, 2022

hedrick said:
There are two parallel things involving secrets: the classification system and various laws. The classification system is administrative. The president can declassify. But he is still bound by the law. The warrant referred to the laws, not classification rules.

The fact that some items were top secret, compartmentalized certainly implies a need for secrecy involving them, but even if the President declassified them (which is far from clear) it might not help if the laws still applied.

The warrant didn't touch on the classification issue at all, only on the issue that the law requires former presidents to leave all official documents behind. If there are any classified documents involved, that would be violations of an additional law not even mentioned in the warrant.

RDKirk · Aug 16, 2022

MMXX said:
I think Biden appears neurologically frail both physically and mentally, in a way that's common for some men his age, especially ones who have had brain surgeries. I think the same was true of Reagan as well despite him also displaying verily. His body was in good condition, but his mind wasn't. Especially towards the end of his presidency at 78.

At least Reagan had a competent VP.

RDKirk · Aug 16, 2022

MMXX said:
I'm pretty convinced genetics plays a big part in such things. Warren Buffett is 91 year old junk food eating mental powerhouse.

Hard to say.

As an old dude myself, it's relatively easy to stay competent into old age if you stay in the same groove you've always been in. It's a lot harder to jump to a new groove when you're old...that's when you see the difference between an old person and a younger person.

Presidents have to jump grooves every day.

Alive2 · Aug 16, 2022

Riddle me this. A great deal of power, influence and resources have been actively trying to take Trump down for 7 years. Arguably more effort than has ever been arrayed against a single individual.
Why no fruit?
I am no fan of Trump.
Looking from the outside, this seems odd.

The Barbarian · Aug 16, 2022

Alive2 said:
Riddle me this. A great deal of power, influence and resources have been actively trying to take Trump down for 7 years. Arguably more effort than has ever been arrayed against a single individual.

Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton, and particularly Barack Obama had it worse. And maybe the worst mauling of all was had by G.W. Bush, who laughs about Trump, saying "I don't look so bad now, do I?"

But then, none of them had to pay off huge fines for defrauding people, or pay off a porn star to keep quiet about their affair, or got impeached... well, Clinton got impeached, didn't he?

It's apparently going to get a lot worse over the next few months. When most of us are settling in and enjoying retirement, Trump is going to be in a constant struggle to avoid bankruptcy and stay out of jail. He brought that on himself, you know.

The Barbarian · Aug 16, 2022

RDKirk said:
As an old dude myself, it's relatively easy to stay competent into old age if you stay in the same groove

And it's hard to move to a new groove if you're old. Worth doing, though. I started woodworking after 66. And it's been interesting. Some people actually think what I make is worth paying money for. Took up bicycling a couple of years ago.

And there's something called the Osher Lifelong Learning Institute. Worth checking out. Great value and a way to stay intellectually fresh.

You don't have to sit in the recliner and watch CNN or Fox.

Postvieww · Aug 16, 2022

The Barbarian said:
It's doubtful of the courts are going to be able to process all the perps by then.

And a large majority of Americans are still looking to deal with the instigator...
Nearly 6 in 10 Americans say Trump should be criminally charged for his role in Jan. 6 riot
6 in 10 say Trump should face criminal charges for Jan 6 role: ABC poll

Just exactly what was his role?

The Barbarian · Aug 16, 2022

Postvieww said:
Just exactly what was his role?

He told them to go to the Capitol and "fight like hell" to stop the certification of Biden as the winner of the election.

And so they did. Many of the insurgents arrested for their part in the coup attempt testified that they were just following Trump's orders.

Postvieww · Aug 16, 2022

The Barbarian said:
He told them to go to the Capitol and "fight like hell" to stop the certification of Biden as the winner of the election.

And so they did. Many of the insurgents arrested for their part in the coup attempt testified that they were just following Trump's orders.

Can you post the video where Trump said "fight like hell" in context please. Thank you.

The Barbarian · Aug 16, 2022

Postvieww said:
Can you post the video where Trump said "fight like hell" in context please. Thank you.

Let’s take a look at some of those “extremely calming” words from the speech he delivered on Jan. 6:

“And we fight. We fight like hell And if you don’t fight like hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore.”
“All of us here today do not want to see our election victory stolen by emboldened radical-left Democrats, which is what they’re doing … We will never give up, we will never concede. It doesn’t happen. You don’t concede when there’s theft involved.”
“Our country has had enough. We will not take it anymore and that’s what this is all about … We will stop the steal.”
“Because you’ll never take back our country with weakness, you have to show strength and you have to be strong.”

Trump Says His ‘Fight Like Hell’ Speech Before Capitol Riot Was Actually ‘Extremely Calming’

There are many videos of the statement on YouTube:

The insurgents arrested in the coup attempt admit that they were obeying Trump's orders. Americans listened to what Trump said, watched what his followers did, and overwhelminginly concluded that he should be charged.

Nearly 6 in 10 Americans say Trump should be criminally charged for his role in Jan. 6 riot
6 in 10 say Trump should face criminal charges for Jan 6 role: ABC poll

BPPLEE · Aug 16, 2022

The Barbarian said:
Let’s take a look at some of those “extremely calming” words from the speech he delivered on Jan. 6:

“And we fight. We fight like hell And if you don’t fight like hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore.”

“All of us here today do not want to see our election victory stolen by emboldened radical-left Democrats, which is what they’re doing … We will never give up, we will never concede. It doesn’t happen. You don’t concede when there’s theft involved.”

“Our country has had enough. We will not take it anymore and that’s what this is all about … We will stop the steal.”

“Because you’ll never take back our country with weakness, you have to show strength and you have to be strong.”

Trump Says His ‘Fight Like Hell’ Speech Before Capitol Riot Was Actually ‘Extremely Calming’

There are many videos of the statement on YouTube:

The insurgents arrested in the coup attempt admit that they were obeying Trump's orders. Americans listened to what Trump said, watched what his followers did, and overwhelminginly concluded that he should be charged.

Nearly 6 in 10 Americans say Trump should be criminally charged for his role in Jan. 6 riot
6 in 10 say Trump should face criminal charges for Jan 6 role: ABC poll

Trump team plays videos of Democrats repeated 'fight' vows

Alive2 · Aug 16, 2022

Although I think it was foolish to talk like that in that context, it is consistent language from Trump. I do not believe his intention was violence. It seems there were folks there ginning up force and clearly a few prepared to do so. The actions/inaction of the police was very odd.
I was not there, but some hanky panky was evident.
I do not think the hearings are impartial.

The Barbarian · Aug 16, 2022

BPPLEE said:
Trump team plays videos of Democrats repeated 'fight' vows

The key is what their followers did. In Trump's case, the question is whether or not he knew that his followers were violent and lawless people who would take his words as orders to attempt to overthrow the Constitution.

And that's arguable. What isn't arguable is whether or not thousands of his followers thought he intended them to attack the Capitol. They openly admitted that they did.

And there's another issue. Some of these people were dumb enough to organize the attack on the Capitol on social media. Which isn't that significant, except that they did it before Trump told them to do so. In other words, the coup attempt was going to happen regardless of what Trump said the day of the attempt.

Which means that his words that day weren't the sole cause of the insurrection.

FBI raid Mar-A-Lago

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