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What you forgot about is the culture. If you lived in a Judaizer culture and you were fighting the idea that obedience gives you salvation it makes sense to make comments like you did. They stress the reality that you are not going to earn salvation.
true enough.... it is unfortunate that the culture or mindset which would make those statements "necessary" continues to thrive....What you forgot about is the culture. If you lived in a Judaizer culture and you were fighting the idea that obedience gives you salvation it makes sense to make comments like you did. They stress the reality that you are not going to earn salvation.
As I read your post, the unrelated thought struck me that it isn't always easy to see the line that exists between healthy self esteem and false pride.
BFA
well said....That's funny that you would say this. I talk to my sons about this all the time.
Nathan (my blessing child) came home and told me that a friend was bragging about the way he could play football. I said, "Well, is it true?" He said, "I don't know, probably not." I replied. "If he can do it, then he is just stating the truth. But if he can't he's being arrogant."
And in a way, false pride would be a part of humbling yourself on the ground just to show others you're humble. When you're not really humble, then false pride would want you to "pretend" you're humble by acting it. If you're not acting, then you are really humble.
I also think this was a good point, and related as 1Prophetess explained.As I read your post, the unrelated thought struck me that it isn't always easy to see the line that exists between healthy self esteem and false pride.
In light of k4c's comment in another thread i.e. "It amazes me how God can love sinful man," I thought this thread bears revisiting... How could God not love humans whom he created? Again I believe those kinds of statements come from a negative image mindset...
"I don't deserve this, you've been too good to me," "I am unworthy," "I am wretched," "I am no good," "why do you bless me so?"
If our children constantly stated those things to us, we would seek counseling for them... so why is it okay for those who call themselves "Children of God" to constantly say such things? Perhaps counseling is needed?
"As a person thinks in their mind, so are they......"
thoughts?
I am not certain that the definition of "poor in spirit" means self-loathing... My point is how can a child of God harbor such negative thoughts about themselves given that they are a child of God....Isn't this what the prodigal son said to his father? And why would we think that all Christians speak this way? If we come across Christians who speak this way, it is probably because they have become aware of their lost condition and are on their way back to God.
Do all children of God speak like this? I don't think so.
Maybe the ones who utter such despairing words as quoted above, are speaking from the viewpoint of the prodigal son -- who, I feel sure, was in a much better position than the son who stayed at home and saw himself as "good" and who felt no need to beat upon his chest as his prodigal brother did. One would hope that the son who stayed at home would become aware of his self-righteous attitude towards his returning brother, and he would then maybe say those same wrenching words that would take him back to a genuine relationship with his father.
There is hope for the one who feels unworthy, wretched, and no good, "blessed are the poor in spirit," for then they will turn to God. There is small hope for the self righteous who feel that their self righteousness is all that they need.
But putting prodigality aside, I agree with you that children of God should be healthy in mind and body, balanced, warm and accepting of themselves and others, rejoicing and growing in their relationship with God.
"I don't deserve this, you've been too good to me," "I am unworthy," "I am wretched," "I am no good," "why do you bless me so?"
If our children constantly stated those things to us, we would seek counseling for them... so why is it okay for those who call themselves "Children of God" to constantly say such things? Perhaps counseling is needed?
"As a person thinks in their mind, so are they......"
thoughts?
I am not certain that the definition of "poor in spirit" means self-loathing... My point is how can a child of God harbor such negative thoughts about themselves given that they are a child of God....
The prodigal son is a different issue, he knew he messed up and because he messed up felt like his father would accept him as a servant... BUT remember the father's response, he welcomed his son, not a servant... so the reality is we may think of ourselves as wretched, but God sees us as his kids... we need to remember that....
Yes!! I absolutely agree!
Jesus paid dearly to reconcile us to God. He took our sin, was made sin so that we could be made the righteous of God in Christ Jesus.
That is not something to be taken lightly. What are we saying about the sacrifice of Jesus and what that accomplished when we talk about how unworthy we are. Yes, without Christ we are unworthy. But, because of Christ, we are worthy, in Him. We mattered enough that He gave His life for us.
When we talk about what unworthy sinners we are, we are still looking at ourselves. We are new creatures in Christ. We are no longer an unworthy sinner. We are to put on Jesus, and that's how God sees us, there is nothing unworthy there.
It's a matter of perspective. See yourself as God sees you. Someone He created and loved enough to send His only Son to die for.
The bible says we shouldn't think of ourselves more highly than we ought. That tells me that we shouldn't think of ourselves as lowly sinners. Just don't get prideful. Stay humble. Saying you are a child of God, that you are worthy because of that, is not being arrogant. It is a humbling thing when you really understand what that means. But you know who you are. That is the key. Identify yourself with Jesus.
I am not certain that the definition of "poor in spirit" means self-loathing... My point is how can a child of God harbor such negative thoughts about themselves given that they are a child of God....
The prodigal son is a different issue, he knew he messed up and because he messed up felt like his father would accept him as a servant... BUT remember the father's response, he welcomed his son, not a servant... so the reality is we may think of ourselves as wretched, but God sees us as his kids... we need to remember that....
and my point was only that those Christians that you hear saying "I am unworthy" may be Christians who have come to realize that they have been prodigal and are on their way back, beating up on themselves for what they have done. Nothing wrong with that in its time and place.
Right. I had thought, though, that the discussion was about the children, not the Father. We know the Father will always welcome us back with open arms.
Elsewhere, I remember that you had said that what if Satan is the ultimate prodigal. I'm betting that if Satan wanted to return to God in genuine repentance, he would be accepted. The problem is that he has taken a committed stand against God and refuses to return. What is a father supposed to do then? Force him to return?
You don't know that he has, unless you've spoken to him. You don't even know if he is alive... Having said that, if God knows that in 100,000 years Lucifer will return, do you think he will wait?
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