Fantasy writing-cliche?

[Billnew]

Looking for ideas for a plot of a story.

This sight recommended not doing the Medevil fantasy setting with elves, dragons and definately not in the setting of role playing games.
People were tired of Tolken want to be-s. That elves and dragons were cliche'.

I believe people want to read books on these, but I agree not Tolken'est.
The cliche is how these are portrayed. The evil dragons that could conquer the world if they would just put up the effort. The good elves that are snobish and tolerate or look down on humans. With the unique elf being the one that fell from grace, and is either lowers itself to seek human friendship, or falls all the way, and helps the evil villain.

People still right about modern day people, we have had this section for hundreds of years. Why should a make believe place be limited to a few good books? The cookie cutter is the problem, not the setting.

In my world, Elves, humans, dragons etc, if they are inteligent, they have the ability to decide if they are good or evil, and the extent that they are good or evil, is not extreme. Good people can be bought for a price, and bad people can do good once in a while. In one story, my unicorn is good, but more of a chaotic good, a Mischiveous good.

The white knight could be the noble that taxes his people into starvation, and the black night be the noble that is tired of fighting, and is spending his time seeking the other aspects of chivalry.

In your opinion is fantasy-dwarves, elves, dragons and unicorns cliche?

 

[Resha Caner]

Many literary theories hold that there are a finite number of plots:
1. Boy meets girl, boy loses girl, boy wins girl back.
2. The quest for meaning.
3. Good vs. evil.
4. ...

If one looks at it that way, everything is cliche'. Solomon wins and "there is nothing new under the sun".

The next take on literary theory is that while this may be true, each generation has to rediscover these basic ideas in order to "own" them. Or another idea is that each culture has to frame these ideas in a unique way in order to make sense of them - even though at the root level it's all the same stuff.

So, Tolkien was not "new" in writing fantasy. My father-in-law continually complains about how Tolkien's idea of the ring was a ripoff of Wagner.

What was "new" about Tolkien was how he wrapped his story around the deep personal experiences of WWI and the disillusionment of the post-industrial age to show that there is still beauty in the world. Tolkien was a very deep guy if you read into his background, and he found the voice to speak to his generation. What has happened is that Peter Jackson repackaged LOTR for the RPG generation (and did a brilliant job of it).

Again, if you look at Gene Roddenberry & George Lucas, they did similar things. They found a way to rescue science fiction from the doldrums into which it sank during the glut of Cold War science fiction. They shined it up for a new generation.

That's your task. Elves will never go out of style. It's not their problem. It's the author's problem. I had the privilege of reading & reviewing a book for author Sally Odgers where she revamped faeries in what I consider to be a brilliant way. She got distracted with making a living and hasn't pushed her publisher to accept the idea - even though I encouraged her to do so as best I could. But I sure wish she would.

I've reworked speculative fiction in a way I really like, but haven't found a publisher who agrees with me yet.

So, in the end, all you need is a good muse - a flash of inspiration - or whatever to polish up those elves.

 

[Billnew]

Very well put.
I agree.
Writing about similar things to Tolken, would be imitation, not imagination.
It would be like taking a picture of a mirror reflecting a work of art.

I was not directly impressed with Tolken. I do like his characters, and setting, but alot of his creatures are invulnerable. His plots have the world in the balance.
For his works, this was good.
But I do not believe the majority of stories to be told should have the fate of the world(or known world) hanging in the balance.

My world has the typical woodland creatures, from the rare to the comon.
The stories tell of small town people, or even average people in a large city and the problems they must deal with.
I try to give reasons why things are the way they are, I also include things that people wouldn't normally think of. How does it feel to lower a lance while charging towards a quintain, or how easy is it to throw a spear at a trot, or gallop. What difficulties would a rider face if a timid horse were to come face to face with a _____. Camping without electric, etc.

I think people do fall into pitfalls, and become cliche or remakes of an original, but if you have a good well thought out setup, it would be like doing a double back flip to fall into someone elses works.

 

[Resha Caner]

Then you are part of the "mundane" generation, as am I. I don't like that label, but it's the one literary people recognize. The mundane movement is credited to Julian Todd, which is a bit frustrating since I came up with the same idea independently ... oh well.

The idea is this: People have been dreaming of traveling to the stars for millenia. Aside from a few trips to the moon it hasn't really happened. In fact, it looks darned impractical. So, let's write stories where we imagine the future as it is likely to be rather than according to some fantastical vision. Or, let's write about a type of Star Trek where Captain Kirk has to deal with budget cuts and schedule delays.

It can be a challenge to make such things interesting to the reader, but I prefer it to the comic book style of fantasy and sci-fi.

 

[Billnew]

Mundane, is pretty good explaination of it.

The day to day workings of life in _____.
Most people in their lives will not be in a situation that involves saving the world. But in fantasy/Sci fi, it is comon place.

Life is interesting without worrying about a world being destroyed by a Goth asthmatic(COPD'r) with a flashing light beam or some decrepid little ghoul trying to get a golden sphere back on his finger, just to comand all the dark creatures of the world.

In real life, one cut of a sword could kill the person in weeks rather then in minutes. In the wild west, being gut shot was one of the worst deaths a person could imagine.
Disease can wipe out villages with no hero to save them. Man against nature.
Mental issues can take its toll on a warrior too. Man vs himself.

People trying to be the best can compete on a local scale, less then death or event o the death, without putting the world in jeopardy. Man vs man.
Or combonations of problems offer the excitement of life. Anything that lives must be vulnerable to attack, be able to be hurt or killed. Otherwise that being would be able to control everything.

Funny, in the SCA mundane is the label for real life, doing something not related to reinactment.