Faith?

[TheKeyboardist]

I know that by faith alone you are saved and are granted eternal life (well, in our denomination anyway), thats what bible study teachers teach over and over again. However, i have seen a verse in James that says otherwise.

Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

So, which is it, faith alone or works aloingside?

 

[jasperbound]

It's real faith, which will produce works naturally. Think of it like a fire. The flame is the faith and the heat, which comes naturally from the fire, is the work.

 

[livingproofGM]

Here:s a really good site on that argument:http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0303sbs.asp
I don't know if you wanted certain denominational points of view, but I think this comes closest to what you're looking for.

 

[holo]

I believe he meant that a faith that doesn't show in actions, is dead, as in non-productive. You can, to a degree, tell what people believe by observing what they do.

 

[AngCath]

we are saved by Grace

 

[statrei]

we are saved by Grace

Our salvation is an act of love, not an act of grace. (Unless we are about to change the meaning of grace.)

 

[holo]

Would it be correct to say that grace is a consequence of love?

 

[statrei]

I know that by faith alone you are saved and are granted eternal life (well, in our denomination anyway), thats what bible study teachers teach over and over again. However, i have seen a verse in James that says otherwise.

Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

So, which is it, faith alone or works aloingside?

Neither saves us. God saved us and that was an act of love. You need faith to believe He did and live within that assurance but the salvation was not caused by faith. More faith does not mean more salvation. Our problem it appears is that we don't understand what it means to be lost. The general sentiment appears to be that to be lost is to be in a separate camp. People in a separate camp are not lost. They are where they want to belong. People who are lost would get home if they knew the way home. When they are also imprisoned hy an enemy who keeps them captive another more crucial aspect is introduced.

 

[billwald]

As there is no test for "weness," the state of being elect, it doesn't matter. We each must "work out (our) own salvation in fear and trembling."

 

[PaladinValer]

Faith is a work

 

[statrei]

Faith is a work

I hoe you don't take pleasure in stating things that are obviously not true. A lie oft-repeated is soon believed.

 

[Albion]

Would it be correct to say that grace is a consequence of love?

No, grace is an unmerited gift. If it were earned, even through God looking at what we will do in the future, it would not be grace.

 

[linssue55]

I know that by faith alone you are saved and are granted eternal life (well, in our denomination anyway), thats what bible study teachers teach over and over again. However, i have seen a verse in James that says otherwise.

Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

So, which is it, faith alone or works aloingside?

This is the faith of the spriit, when we are in fellowship, this is the only way to produce the works that the Lord intends us to do....Anything out side of the spirit, out of fellowship, carnal christians, is works of the flesh, dead works.

Only when we are filled with the spirit are we doing the works that James is speaking of....and you also will see throughout the bible in verses speaking of "knowledge", this refers to "epignosis" knowledge, (being filled with the spirit) doctrine resident in the soul of the believer, in our right lobe. This is true knowledge. Epignosis doctrine can only be used when we are filled with the spirit, they both work together, so that everything we do in life produces the fruits, that the Lord demands of us.

 

[seekingpurity047]

Our salvation is an act of love, not an act of grace. (Unless we are about to change the meaning of grace.)

Grace and love coincide. We are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. Grace is undeserved kindness. Man is so depraved that he needs God's grace in order for his heart to change, he needs God's grace to have life period. Everything is by the grace of God. The privilege of being on the internet right now is by His grace, for I do not deserve it.

Thank you Jesus for your grace and your love. Thank you Father for having us believe by your grace alone.

Randy

 

[statrei]

Grace and love coincide. We are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. Grace is undeserved kindness. Man is so depraved that he needs God's grace in order for his heart to change, he needs God's grace to have life period. Everything is by the grace of God. The privilege of being on the internet right now is by His grace, for I do not deserve it.

Thank you Jesus for your grace and your love. Thank you Father for having us believe by your grace alone.

Randy

I hope you don't think the same way when you have children because if they get lost you may think it is not your obligation to save them.

 

[holo]

No, grace is an unmerited gift. If it were earned, even through God looking at what we will do in the future, it would not be grace.

I meant that God's grace is a consequence of His love, not that we get grace because we love. We love because He loved us first.

 

[PaladinValer]

I hoe you don't take pleasure in stating things that are obviously not true. A lie oft-repeated is soon believed.

Then pray tell me why the ECFs all agree with me? Or did the Holy Spirit lie to them all?

 

[statrei]

I meant that God's grace is a consequence of His love, not that we get grace because we love. We love because He loved us first.

All of God's actions are a consequence of his love so I don't see how this helps the discussion.

 

[Albion]

I meant that God's grace is a consequence of His love, not that we get grace because we love. We love because He loved us first.

Excellently put!

I'm glad we see eye to eye and were only momentariliy separated by how the print was worded or read.

 

[jmacvols]

Faith is a work

I also agree that faith is a work. Paul commended the Thessalonians for their "work of faith", 1 Thes 1:3. Mk 2:5 says Jesus "saw their faith". What Jesus saw was the work the men were doing and that work is called faith. This fits with what James said "I will show thee my faith by my works", Jas 2:18.