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You are trying to force the Body of Christ into the they in that passage.
Peter preached at Pentecost and about 3000 more were saved, so those new ones are in the "they"
Titus 1:16 seems clearly to be about unbelievers as verse 15 says "those who are corrupted and do not believe"Many believe that Paul taught to believe in Jesus alone to be saved;
But this is not true. For Paul also says...
- “They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16). (Note: To know God is a part of salvation (See: John 17:3, and 1 John 2:3-4, 1 John 5:12).
- "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing," (1 Timothy 6:3-4). (Note: James 4:6 says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble).
- “...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).
- “For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).
- “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” (Romans 8:1).
- "If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema [accursed] Maranatha." (1 Corinthians 16:22).
- “But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).
- “For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).
- “Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” (Philippians 2:12-13).
- “For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.” (Galatians 6:8-9).
- “...And having become servants of God, ye have your fruit unto holiness and the end, everlasting life.” (Romans 6:22).
- “Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19-21).
- “That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” (2 Thessalonians 2:12).
- “Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.” (Galatians 5:4).
- “But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.” (Ephesians 5:3-7).
Many believe something that's simple and direct to the point. Others teach something that's complicated and all over the place.
That is great you don't believe that obeying the Law of Moses is for salvation. I don't believe that, either. For the Law of Moses is no longer in effect.
Here are a list of verses showing us the Old Law is no more:
"When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear." (Hebrews 8:13) (NLT).
”Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.” (Romans 7:4).
"But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." (Romans 7:6).
"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;" (Colossians 2:14).
“By abolishing in His [own crucified] flesh the enmity [caused by] the Law with its decrees and ordinances [which He annulled]; that He from the two might create in Himself one new man [one new quality of humanity out of the two], so making peace.” (Ephesians 2:15) (AMPC).
Hebrews
50 “Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; “ (Matthew 27:20-51).
“And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:1).
“But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:5).
“Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment” (Acts of the Apostles 15:24).
28 "For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well." (Acts of the Apostles 15:28-29).
7 "But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious." (2 Corinthians 3:7-11).
“But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.” (2 Corinthians 3:14).
The Old Covenant says this about circumcision:
"And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant." (Genesis 17:14).
Yet, the New Covenant says this about circumcision:
"Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing." (Galatians 5:2).
The Old Covenant says this about the Sabbath:
32 "And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses." (Numbers 15:32-36).
Yet, the New Covenant says this about the Sabbath:
"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:" (Colossians 2:16).
So it appears things have changed.
This makes sense because Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed.
"For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law." (Hebrews 7:12).
“For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.” (John 1:17).
In conclusion:
Titus 1:16 seems clearly to be about unbelievers as verse 15 says "those who are corrupted and do not believe"
How many more of the verses you posted are going be talking about unbelievers?
While we do not earn our salvation by our obedience to the Mosaic Law, that does not mean that our salvation does not require obedience to it for some other reason, such as faith. In Romans 2:13, only doers of the Mosaic Law will be justified. In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the Mosaic Law is God's instructions for how to know Christ, and knowing Christ is required for salvation, while arguing that it is no more is leading people away from knowing Christ and away from salvation. Our salvation is from sin and sin is the transgression of the Mosaic Law (1 John 3:4), so arguing that it is no more is essentially saying that we have no more need of salvation. The Mosaic Law is God's instructions for how to testify about God's nature, so the only way abolish the Mosaic Law would be to first abolish God. In Matthew 5:17, Jesus specifically said that he came not to abolish the law and warned against relaxing the least part of it or teaching others to do that, so saying that it is no more is calling Jesus a liar and disregarding his warning. In Matthew 4:17-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is, and in Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so saying the the Mosaic Law is no more undermines what Christ accomplished both through his ministry and through the cross.
In Hebrews 8:10, the New Covenant still involves following the Mosaic Law, so while the Mosaic Covenant has become obsolete, God and His eternal law did not become obsolete along with it.
In Romans 7:1-4, a woman is bound by the law of marriage that would cause her to commit adultery if she were to live with another man while her husband was still alive, but if he were to die, then she would be released from the law of marriage and would be free to marry another man without committing adultery, whereupon she would once again be bound by the law of marriage. At no point was she ever set free from needing to obey God's law, so nothing in Paul's example from the law leads to the conclusion that in the same way God's law is no more.
In Romans 7:22-23, Paul said that he delighted in obeying God's law, but contrasted it with the law of which, which held him captive. If Romans 7:5-6 were referring to God's law, then that would mean that Paul delighted in stirring up sinful passions in order to bear fruit unto death and that he delighted in being held captive, which is absurd, but rather it is the law of sin that he described as holding him captive.
1.) You shall not commit murder.
2.) This person has been found guilty of murder.
The first is an example of a law that is for our own good while the second is an example of a handwritten ordinance that was contrary to someone that was nailed to their cross in order to announce why they were being excused. The cross serves as a perfect analogy for the list of our violations of God's law being nailed to Christ's cross and with him dying in our place to pay the penalty for our sins, but has nothing to do with ending any laws.
All of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160), but these verses are speaking about a law that is ending, therefore this verse is not speaking about any of God's laws. God did not make any mistakes when He gave His law, so He had no need to send Jesus to abolish His own laws. Furthermore, God did not give any laws for the purpose of creating a dividing wall of hostility, but rather His law instructs us to love our neighbor as ourselves. The Greek word "dogma" that is translated as "ordinances" or "decrees" in Colossians 2:14 and Ephesians 2:15 is never used by the Bible to refer to the Mosaic Law
In Deuteronomy 13:4-5, the way that God instructed His people to determine that someone was a false prophet who was not speaking for Him was if they taught against obeying the Mosaic Law, so God simply did not give any room to follow anyone who does that, and if you think that is what the author of Hebrews was doing, then according to God, you should regard them as being a false prophet, but that is not what they were doing. The bottom line is that we must obey God rather than man, so we should be quicker to disregard everything that any man has said than to disregard anything that God has commanded.
There is nothing in the Bible that states that this was done in order to abolish God's eternal law.
The reason why God commanded circumcision was not in order to provide a means of earning our salvation, so the Jerusalem Council upheld the Mosaic Law by correctly ruling against that requirement. In Acts 15:1, the unbelievers were from Judea, they were opposed in Acts 15 by believers from the Pharisees who argued that Gentiles should become circumcision and be required to obey the Mosaic Law as a matter of faith, and the Jerusalem Council ruled in favor of the Pharisees. No one there was taking the position that Gentiles didn't need to obey the Mosaic Law.
Not only was it unreasonable to require obedience to the Mosaic Law to earn salvation, but it was also unreasonable to expect new believers to understand and apply all of God's laws on day one. All of God's works are known to Him from eternity, but Gentiles are still learning them, so James was softening the position taken in verse 5. The four laws listed in Acts 15:19-21 are all from the Mosaic Law, so again, no one was arguing against Gentiles obeying it, but rather James was saying that they needed to first focus their priority on refraining from pagan idolatry, and then continue to learn how to obey Moses by hearing him taught every Sabbath in the synagogues, which was in support of the position in verse 5. Those four laws are clearly not an exhaustive list of everything that a mature Gentile believer is required to do.
The fact that the law is a ministry of death for those who refuse to submit to it is not a very good reason to refuse to submit to it. The Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Mosaic Law (Ezekiel 36:26-27).
The goal of the Mosaic Law is to testify about how to have a relationship with Christ and this is what the veil was preventing Jews from seeing (Romans 9:30-10:4). However, it is a veil that works both ways by preventing Gentiles from seeing the same thing.
I was distinguishing between Israel and the Body of Christ, not Jews and Gentiles.
A person who professes to know God is not an atheist. It says in Titus 1:16 that they PROFESS that they KNOW GOD. So a person can profess that they know God or Jesus, but they can deny God by their works according to Paul. That is what he is saying. This means Paul is agreeing with the apostle John in 1 John 2:3-4, and He is agreeing with Jesus in John 17:3, John 14:23, etc.
I laid out my case with Scripture in how the Old Law is no longer in effect. If you don't accept that, I am commanded by God to not argue with those who want to keep the ceremonial laws of Moses (See: Titus 3:9). Colossians 2:14-16 makes it clear that Christ nailed to the cross these ordinances. These ordinances that are nailed to the cross are the Sabbaths, holy days, and the dietary laws.
Obviously unbelieving false teachers / preachers profess that they know God. There's been plenty of them on TV scamming people out of money for decades.
They're the ones Matthew 7:21-23 is about.
The context of Titus 1:15-16 seems clearly about unbelievers.
15 To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled. 16 They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work.
I laid out the case for why I disagree with your interpretation of the verses you've cited and you are blatantly misappropriating Titus 3:9. In Titus 3:1-8, Paul was extoling them to do good works, so verse 9 should not be used to argue against those who are saying we should follow God's laws for how to do good works. The Greek word "dogma" that is translated as "ordinances" is never used by the Bible to refer the Law of Moses. Crosses were never used for the purpose of disposing of laws, so it was not the laws themselves that were nailed to crosses, but the list of their violations of the law, or the charges that were against them (Matthew 27:37). So again, it has nothing to do with any laws being nailed to the cross and saying that there were any laws ended on the cross undermines what Jesus went to the cross to accomplish (Titus 2:14). In Colossians 2:22, Paul described what he was speaking against as being the commandments and doctrines of men, yet you've made Paul out to be speaking against the commandments of God as if Paul had the authority to countermand God. If you think that Paul spoke against obeying God and that God therefore spoke against obeying Paul, then you have a decision to make about which one has the higher authority and which one to follow, but Paul never did that.
So unbelievers who profess that they know God deny God by a lack of works.
Yes of course there is a difference.
What I am saying is that Jews under the gospel of the kingdom had no choice, their salvation is tied to their works.
But I guess the good thing, if you can see it, is that they will receive rewards and salvation together after the 2nd coming of Christ, as Jesus said to them many times in Matthew 25.
For us saved under the Body of Christ, there is a very good possibility that many of us will end up only saved, but very little or no rewards, as perhaps Ravi Zechariah would be also found under, in 1 Corinthians 3
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
So my point is that in the Body of Christ, salvation is separated from rewards, but under the gospel of the kingdom, they are not.
What works do they lack to know God? You're good at making lists, so what are 10-15 works needed to know God? I know Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.” I know the works mentioned by James and the works mentioned in Hebrews 11
But what are Bible Highlighter's list of works needed to know God?
I will obey my Lord. Titus 3:9.
You are twisting that verse and you know it. If were concerned about obeying our Lord, then you wouldn't be arguing against obeying what He has commanded, and if you were concerned with not discussing whether followers of God should follow what God has commanded, then you wouldn't have made that post while having no intention of replying.
This is not a list, but Paul agreed with loving your neighbor (Romans 13:8-10).
Jesus agreed with the lawyer that to love God and to love your neighbor is a part of inheriting eternal life (Luke 10:25-28). Note: The parable of the good samaritan is one example of how to love our neighbor (See: Luke 10:29-37). The apostle John said that the way we can tell the difference between the children of God vs. the children of the devil is in the fact that whoever does not righteousness is not of God, and neither he that loves not his brother. (1 John 3:10). So we must love our neighbor.
Paul says that if any man loves not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be accursed (1 Corinthians 16:22). Jesus defines the way we are to love Him in the fact that He said that if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15). So any good works would be the teachings that comes from Jesus and His followers in the New Testament. 1 John 4:8 says, “He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.” So again, Belief Alone-ism falls flat. We need to love in order to know God. Just as we need to obey the commandments as a part of saying we know the Lord (See again 1 John 2:3-4).
In regards to the parable of the building,
and it's materials in 1 Corinthians 3:
Paul says before the parable, "you are God's building."
So we are the materials that make up the building.
The work is not referring to just any kind of general actions of a believer like good fruit (any kind of good fruit) and evil fruit (sin). The work is referring to those believers we bring to the faith and their eternal status with God (i.e. what kind of building materials are they made up of). The Parable is talking about Paul's work (Which is the Corinthians in this instance).
I believe Paul and the other apostles are a part of the foundation with Christ being the chief cornerstone or the ultimate baseline foundation (Ephesians 2:20), and that Paul's work in the gospel are the result of the Corinthians being initially saved by the gospel. However, Paul is now concerned that his labor in the gospel (concerning them) is now in vain because the Corinthians are now working the sins of strife and envying (Note: Paul condemns the sins of strife and envying when writing to the Galatians (Galatians 5:19-21). Paul says that they which do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God). In Galatians 4:11, Paul was concerned for the Galatians in that they were going back to the Old Law so as to be justified or saved. He was concerned that his labor for the gospel was in vain for the Galatians.
So the parable speaks of how his labor for the gospel (concerning the Corinthians) was now possibly in vain for them, too.
#1. The chief cornerstone foundation = Jesus Christ.
#2. Built as a part of the foundation on top of Christ = The apostles (including Paul, etc.) (Ephesians 2:20).
#3. The actual building materials of the tower or building = God's people (In this instance it would be the Corinthians).
#4. The Corinthians would be like: Wood, hay, and stubble in this particular point in time within their life while they abided in their sins of strife, and envying (Which are sins that will cause a person to not inherit the Kingdom of God).
Wood, hay, and stubble are not materials that could survive a fire.
#5. Paul (the soul winner, and builder of the gospel and builder upon the foundation of Jesus Christ) would be saved through the fire (despite his work - i.e. the Corinthians being his work) would be burned up because of their sins. For Paul then says that if any man defiles the temple, God will destroy them (Meaning: God will destroy the Corinthians if they do not repent of their sins). We are the temple of God. Our bodies are the temples of God. If we as believers defile our temples by sin, God will destroy us (i.e. condemn us).
This is what I believe the parable is saying. The works of Paul that will be burned are the Corinthians if they do not repent of their sins of strife and envy (1 Corinthians 3:3). The Corinthians at this point in time are not saved and they will be burned up in the fire and destroyed by God if they don't seek forgiveness with the Lord and turn from their sins of strife and envy. Paul, the apostles, or the gospel preacher is the one who will be saved through fire if his work (the Corinthians) is burned up (on the account of their justifying sin). The parable is not talking about how a believer can sin and still be saved as long as they have a belief on Jesus. It's actually teaching the exact opposite of that. One cannot build sin as a work upon the foundation of Jesus Christ. Jesus did not advocate sin, and neither did He teach that a person can continue to sin and still be saved.
Yes, we are initially and foundationally saved by God's grace, but believers cannot justify sin, and they have to be fruitful for their Lord and live holy as a part of the Sanctification Process.
For Hebrews 12:14-15 says,
“14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness,
without which no man shall see the Lord:
15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;”
(Hebrews 12:14-15).
In Acts 15:16-17, they saw themselves as the restoration of Israel in fulfillment of prophecy, not as a brand new entity that was distinct from Israel.
Nope. Jesus says in John 17:18, “....even so have I also sent them into the world.”
This means that the disciples will be sent out into the world (i.e. the world of the Gentiles) so as to preach the gospel to them. This is also a part of the great commission, but the disciples were a little slow to get into the Lord's new program in what He was saying.
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