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So you have to seek God with your whole heart to find convincing evidence of his existence? Yet if you have no evidence for his existence what would motivate you to seek him with your whole heart in the first place ?
If you can't believe in him because of a lack of evidence it seems you would never get the evidence because your doubt would hamper your ability to seek him with your whole heart. Sounds like a catch 22.
I answered those questions. If you can perceive those things, that's your evidence that spiritual facility exists, even in you.
I take it you accept the more Calvinist view that man doesn't play a role in his own salvation and that the elect are given irresistible grace? A person is saved because of Gods personal choice and action * which is completely disconnected to any concern about the nature or actions of the person in question.Very perceptive. The new birth is a miracle, and perhaps the greatest. Life from death and all that.
I take it you accept the more Calvinist view
that man doesn't play a role in his own salvation and that the elect are given irresistible grace?
A person is saved because of Gods personal choice and action * which is completely disconnected to any concern about the nature or actions of the person in question.
If that's the case why on earth would God fail to help everyone out by saving them instead of allowing a (majority?) segment of the human population to receive everlasting torture and suffering?
causing billions of people everlasting suffering is just too much.
Can you perceive beauty?
Morality?
Does the color blue exist inside of the sky, or is the sky perceived as blue because that's how our visual system works? I'd say that it is the second and that naïve realism is false.
The same goes for beauty. We may perceive certain faces as beautiful, perhaps for their symmetry, but "beauty" isn't some object or property in itself that we perceive.
Likewise for morality. Morality is not something that we perceive, as if it hides inside of people, but something that we infer about reality. We may feel like it is something that we perceive, but as with beauty it is not. It says more about us -- about the way in which we think and feel -- than about what we actually witness.
Please don't misunderstand me. I'm a moral realist, so I'm not suggesting that there is no right or wrong beyond arbitrary opinion. I'm saying only that morality is not something that we perceive, but has to do with what we infer from what we perceive.
eudaimonia,
Mark
You are describing (and using) spiritual facility to be able to engage those things
I don't even know what you're claiming here - the fact that I can think about stuff means that people can sense the supernatural? You're really going to have to show how these two ideas are connected rather than just assert it.
Assuming this is true, we're also using our "spiritual facility" to come the conclusion that God isn't worth believing in. Now what?
You are describing (and using) spiritual facility to be able to engage those things, which was a concept questioned in this thread.
I am using a mental facility, and it is not a sense organ. That's my point.
So you see there is an overlap between mental facility and spiritual facility, as the poster at the bottom of your posts attests (freedom being a spiritual thing)
Which poster? Which post of his?
eudaimonia,
Mark
Your poster, about the liberating aspects of knowledge
You are correct, that is also a spiritual involvement. I'm not I understand what you're asking, or if it is as simple as it seems you are surely asking the wrong one. (Although I can point out there's a relevant tarheel joke here)
Yes I realize you look at it that way, which is exactly why I pointed out what i did.
Just not in any way that you can demonstrate.
I could demonstrate it. If I were with you in person. Thats what brightlights was talking about when he mentioned the word "relationship".
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