Faith Alone something new??

[BBAS 64]

Good Day, All

Many times in talking about this issue we tend to attribute this idea to Luther. That may be in fact correct in our current understanding, history shows something much different.
In doing some reading on the internet come accross these quotes:

Origen on the Epistle of Romans:

In this current page, the Apostle, as if establishing the conclusion of his previous arguments, now says, "Where then is your boasting? It is excluded. Through what law? That of works? No, but through the law of faith. For we hold that a man is justified through faith without works of the law." He is saying that the justification of faith alone suffices, so that the one who only believes is justified, even if he has not accomplished a single work. (Commentary on the Epistle to the Romans--Book 3: Chapter 9: 9)


It is incumbent upon us, therefore, as those who are attempting to defend the harmoniousness of the Apostle's writings and to establish that they are entirely consistent in their arrangement, that we should ask: Who has been justified by faith alone without works of the law? Thus, in my opinion, that thief who was crucified with Christ should suffice for a suitable example. (Commentary on the Romans--Book 3: Chapter 9:3)

Now seeing these are just quotes and do not full context of the writer based on the verses of scripture refered to. This would be some what representative of the work from Origen.


Peace to u,


BBAS

 

[Rechtgläubig]

Hi BBAS!

Actually St. Paul should get the credit, not Luther, nor Origen.

 

[d0c markus]

Good Day, All

Many times in talking about this issue we tend to attribute this idea to Luther. That may be in fact correct in our current understanding, history shows something much different.
In doing some reading on the internet come accross these quotes:

Origen on the Epistle of Romans:

In this current page, the Apostle, as if establishing the conclusion of his previous arguments, now says, "Where then is your boasting? It is excluded. Through what law? That of works? No, but through the law of faith. For we hold that a man is justified through faith without works of the law." He is saying that the justification of faith alone suffices, so that the one who only believes is justified, even if he has not accomplished a single work. (Commentary on the Epistle to the Romans--Book 3: Chapter 9: 9)


It is incumbent upon us, therefore, as those who are attempting to defend the harmoniousness of the Apostle's writings and to establish that they are entirely consistent in their arrangement, that we should ask: Who has been justified by faith alone without works of the law? Thus, in my opinion, that thief who was crucified with Christ should suffice for a suitable example. (Commentary on the Romans--Book 3: Chapter 9:3)

Now seeing these are just quotes and do not full context of the writer based on the verses of scripture refered to. This would be some what representative of the work from Origen.


Peace to u,


BBAS

I like how he quoted from the epistles of paul.... i think we should thank the holy spirit first, then paul, as the original author who came up with that idea.

 

[d0c markus]

Hi BBAS!

Actually St. Paul should get the credit, not Luther, nor Origen.

I should really read ahead.... we said the same things...

God Bless.

 

[Rechtgläubig]

LOL!

 

[Oblio]

FTR - Origen did hold many heterodox views that were condemned by The Church.

 

[d0c markus]

FTR - Origen did hold many heterodox views and was never canonized as a Saint.

hmm.... lol i suppose if you stick with the bible thats bad...

Thanks for that tidbit...i never knew that.

 

[Oblio]

LOL - The Bible did not exist at that time

 

[InquisitorKind]

LOL - The Bible did not exist at that time

I'm not trying to derail the subject, but are you sure? The Scriptures, the last of it being written almost a hundred years earlier, were already in circulation (to varying degrees) during his lifetime (C.E. 185-254).

What do you mean by the phrase "the Bible"?

~Matt

 

[Oblio]

What do you mean by the phrase "the Bible"?

The collection of Holy Scriptures that were defined in Holy Council by the beliefs of The One Holy and Apostolic Church.

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

FTR - Origen did hold many heterodox views and was never canonized as a Saint.

And what does that have to do with anything? Especially the cannonized as a saint part of it. The Bible mentions nothing on cannonization of saints and doesn't provide for the man-made method of exalting people that cannonization is. According to Orthodox and Catholic doctrines the Protestants hold heterodox beliefs.

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

The collection of Holy Scriptures that were defined in Holy Council by the beliefs of The One Holy and Apostolic Church.

You come into PRE and assert the One Church doctrine? Come on now, you are a moderator you should know better. This doctrine is not accepted in PRE so you are just posting something you know that most of us disagree with. There is not a church that is the One Holy and Apostolic Church, we are all the church, all the body of Christ and nothing less.

 

[InquisitorKind]

And what does that have to do with anything? Especially the cannonized as a saint part of it. The Bible mentions nothing on cannonization of saints and doesn't provide for the man-made method of exalting people that cannonization is. According to Orthodox and Catholic doctrines the Protestants hold heterodox beliefs.

Right, my apologies for failing at this; we should get back to the topic.

BBAS 64,

I recommend that you check out Clement of Rome, one of the earliest of church fathers, as a proponent of faith alone. Read chapter 32 of his letter to the Corinthians:

http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-01/anf01-05.htm#P396_65650

~Matt

 

[BBAS 64]

Right, my apologies for failing at this; we should get back to the topic.

BBAS 64,

I recommend that you check out Clement of Rome, one of the earliest of church fathers, as a proponent of faith alone. Read chapter 32 of his letter to the Corinthians:

http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-01/anf01-05.htm#P396_65650

~Matt

Thank you, Matt

That is a good read! I have forgotten about this one I like the whole letter.


For His Glory Alone!
BBAS

 

[Oblio]

You come into PRE and assert the One Church doctrine? Come on now, you are a moderator you should know better. This doctrine is not accepted in PRE so you are just posting something you know that most of us disagree with. There is not a church that is the One Holy and Apostolic Church, we are all the church, all the body of Christ and nothing less.

I was asked a question on what I considered to be the Bible and answered it.

BTW, from the Nicean/Constantinopolitan Creed in the CF rules

We believe in one holy catholic* and apostolic Church.

 

[Oblio]

BTW, I consider much of what Protestants believe to be orthodox. I simply wanted to point out that it is incorrect to consider Origen a Father of the Early Church and that many of his doctrines (IIRC universal salvation for one) lie outside orthodox (and Orthodox) Christianity.

 

[Oblio]

And what does that have to do with anything? Especially the cannonized as a saint part of it. The Bible mentions nothing on cannonization of saints and doesn't provide for the man-made method of exalting people that cannonization is. According to Orthodox and Catholic doctrines the Protestants hold heterodox beliefs.

You are right. I edited my post to reflect that most Protestants do not recognize Saints.

 

[Lotar]

On a side note. Luther taught faith alone at his university for years before he was excommunicated. His commentary on Romans for example was finished in 1515. It was not until he used it to object to the selling of indulgences that anyone tried to stop him from teaching it.

His beliefs were not new, the Apostle Paul taught it. Augustine taught a weaker form of it.

 

[Job24]

this is getting into a catholic against the PRE debate and that is not allowed in PRE...sorry folks...thread closed