Exposing someone...

joyousliving · Aug 18, 2006

The bible is fairly clear about how we are to deal with these situations.

You owed it to this man to confront him privately first. In love tell him what you know and pray for his repentance. Isn't this what you would want someone to do for you?

If that had not worked then you have a duty to approach him again with witnesses.

If that had not worked then you had a duty to take it to his church.

You skipped the first to steps and brought the allegation against him anonymously. I would hope that this pastor does not take seriously every anonymous allegation made against a member.

I understand your fear of reprisal, but I think that fear can be dramatically lessened when you do it God's way and approach someone privately. Trust God that He will use what you say in love and protect you.

wonderwaleye · Aug 18, 2006

Dear CherryB

In your first post you stated that you should not have done what you did: checking the websites that he had viewed setting up a fake account, you know within your self what you did was wrong.
You said that he is part of the kids ministry, what he was viewing was nothing to do with children.
Have you considered that he might have a marriage problem and could really do with a friend to talk too.
Why not approach him with what you know and hear his side of the story he might need your prayers and friendship

Doesnt your actions portray you as being just as bad as he is.

Remember God sees all, so leave it to God to deal with.

There is an old saying that goes:
Never trouble, trouble, until trouble trouble's you.
Its good advice to live by.

Did this advise come from GOD'S WORD or your personal feelings???

We need to support a CHRISTIAN that STANDS on GOD'S WORD!!!

Because he has LOVE in his heart for another he feels sad for the other person, and that's ALL.

It is refreshing to see someone carry out GOD'S WORD. Not someones idea's of their OWN!!!

What are you really trying to say in your post?

I hope this will explain and bring you WISDOM and UNDERSTANDING in this matter.

TOGETHER WE STAND UNDER THE LOVE OF JESUS SO IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER:

X Even though you can't see him, GOD is there!!! O
( click on the x and drag to the O ) ( then see who is with you ) steven

CherryB · Aug 18, 2006

joyousliving said:
The bible is fairly clear about how we are to deal with these situations.

You owed it to this man to confront him privately first. In love tell him what you know and pray for his repentance. Isn't this what you would want someone to do for you?

If that had not worked then you have a duty to approach him again with witnesses.

If that had not worked then you had a duty to take it to his church.

You skipped the first to steps and brought the allegation against him anonymously. I would hope that this pastor does not take seriously every anonymous allegation made against a member.

I understand your fear of reprisal, but I think that fear can be dramatically lessened when you do it God's way and approach someone privately. Trust God that He will use what you say in love and protect you.

I agree with what you have said, the person should be approached first.

CherryB · Aug 18, 2006

wonderwaleye said:
Did this advise come from GOD'S WORD or your personal feelings

We need to support a CHRISTIAN that STANDS on GOD'S WORD

Because he has LOVE in his heart for another he feels sad for the other person, and that's ALL.

It is refreshing to see someone carry out GOD'S WORD.
I hope this will explain and bring you WISDOM and UNDERSTANDING in this matter.

TOGETHER WE STAND UNDER THE LOVE OF JESUS SO IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER:

X Even though you can't see him, GOD is there!!! O
( click on the x and drag to the O ) ( then see who is with you ) steven

Both personal and Gods word.

Yes, we do need to support another Christian even if he/she has sinned by approaching them "first", we are all capable of sinning.

loyal357 · Aug 18, 2006

Being a private investigator is totally different because normally you're hired by a spouse to find this type of information out. This was not the case here.

I understand why Jody felt the need to tell and any of us could have felt the same way. But I've learned a long time ago that sometimes it is best to just stay out of the personal affairs of some people. As you can see the wife didn't do anything and this can create a bigger problem because she is in total denial or she may have known her husband has a problem. The bottom line is regardless we can't know what is going on between them and I'm sure none of us would want our pastor or other members of the congregation to know that we have personal problems in our home. It's a tough situation. But what's done is done and the best thing for you Jody is to pray about it and move on. You had good intentions and that's all that matters. Let them say what they are going to say but just pray for their guidance and that they can fix this problem that they are having in their marriage.

Be sincere and if they approach you just tell the truth and let them know you were concerned and thought you were helping but you are sorry for getting involved and didn't mean to cause a problem. Don't worry yourself about it and just continue to ask God for guidance. You've done all that you can do.

If I remember correctly, I think you said you told the pastor too, what did he say?

wonderwaleye said:
Dear Jody7818

Take it from a retired Private Investigator, I think there's REAL HOPE for you!!!

Our job may of sounded CREWL to others but you have a VERY IMPORTANT job to do that comes out of GOD'S WORD:

Ephesians
Chapter 5

" For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord.

Live as children of light, for light produces every kind of goodness and righteousness and truth.

Try to learn what is pleasing to the Lord.

Take no part in the fruitless works of darkness; rather expose them, for it is shameful even to mention the things done by them in secret; but everything exposed by the light becomes visible, for everything that becomes visible is light. Therefore, it says: "Awake, O sleeper, and arise from the dead, and Christ will give you light. "

Ephesians
Chapter 6

" Put on the armor of God so that you may be able to stand firm against the tactics of the devil.

For our struggle is not with flesh and blood but with the principalities, with the powers, with the world rulers of this present darkness, with the evil spirits in the heavens.

Therefore, put on the armor of God, that you may be able to resist on the evil day and, having done everything, to hold your ground.

So stand fast with your loins girded in truth, clothed with righteousness as a breastplate, and your feet shod in readiness for the gospel of peace.

In all circumstances, hold faith as a shield, to quench all (the) flaming arrows of the evil one.

And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. "

You felt a calling, were in the right place, reported this to the proper person that's responsible for handling this, YOU HAVE NOTHING TO BE ASHAMED OF OR FEEL BAD ABOUT.

If we never feel PAIN, then we have no reason to change. You may well helped this person save his soul by bringing him to decision.

WHY IS IT THAT NO ONE LIKES A COP??? MAYBE THEY CAN'T STAND THE HEAT!!! LOL

WHATEVER, JUST REMEMBER:

X Even though you can't see him, GOD is there!!! O
( click on the x and drag to the O ) ( then see who is with you ) steven

Jody7818 · Aug 18, 2006

loyal357 said:
If I remember correctly, I think you said you told the pastor too, what did he say?

I didn't personally tell the pastor face to face. I wrote him a letter. I don't know what was said about this manner.

Jody7818 · Aug 18, 2006

I understand what you guys are saying when you describe the proper order to take when someone tresspasses/sins against you. However, it should be handled in a divine manner. I'll explain below.

If the pastor I wrote felt like I should have first contacted the husband about this matter, then he should have emailed me with the email address I provided. He should have sent me instructions according to Matthew 18 on what I should have done in this situation. According to some of you, isn't this what should have been done?

I believe he knows that it is his responsiblity as the senior pastor to take proper and divine leadership in this matter. Now if we say that the correct way for myself to approach this matter would be to follow the instructions of Matthew 18, then it should also apply to the pastor as well. I believe this can be done. But I believe it should be done in the appropriate way of first taking away the leadership responsibilities. And then applying the Matthew 18. If the pastor wanted me to confront the husband according to Matthew 18, then I would have gladly done so after he took away the leadership responsibilities. However, this wouldn't really make much sense since the pastor would be fully prepared and experienced at doing this.

I just believe that people with a leadership position should have a good report about them while they are a leader. If they don't have a good report while they are leaders, then they should be taken out because they are not mature enough to handle the responsibilities of a leader. If a leader can't help/control himself with his own sins, then how is he going to be able to help others with their sins?

AngelDove1 · Aug 18, 2006

your procecting .....
stop or it will give you a headache.
"Let Go and Let God"

Jody7818 said:
For one, the husband may have actually seen me at the library. And two...they may have seen me visit their blog website under my own screen name. They probably put two and two together.

For safety reasons, I was hoping they wouldn't find out it was me doing the exposing because I really don't know what kind of potential these two people have. My gf lives just a few houses away from these two, and I don't want them to start harassing her. So far, nothing has happened. They are simply ignoring us at all cost. Which is probably what they will continue to do. I guess worst case scenario...they may slander me a little by telling lies of how I harassed them by visiting their blog site and making the fake screenname to get the husband in trouble.

In this case, their friends may begin asking what happened, and I seriously doubt the husband and wife team are going to confess what the husband did. Instead, they are going to get the attention off of them and place it on somone else...which is me. Therefore, I'll most likely be labeled the bad guy who falsely got them into trouble. Which doesn't really matter because God knows what happened. And that's all that matters.

AngelDove1 · Aug 18, 2006

well,ya can't cry over spilt milk...
most of us believe he should (soulda,woulda,coulda)
of gone to the guy first...
we all learn from our mistakes,
and from others too.

but he didn't.
Give him your prayers now and encouragement....
God is in control

"Love one another as I have loved you"
ring a bell?

CherryB said:
I agree with what you have said, the person should be approached first.

LJSGM · Aug 18, 2006

I don't feel that what was done was wrong, although, as others have suggested, maybe you could have a talk with him after much prayer. I wouldn't expect much though as there is a difference between unintentionally sinning and intentionally sinning, to go "after" women, and yet know how God expects christians to live and leaders for that matter, implies that he intentionally rebelled against God, and he has no fear in his heart for the Lord. I would then question if he really was a christian at all. Then you might have to approach him as a non-believer. Who ever said that exposing sin was wrong? It's the actions after exposing sin that can be wrong.

ub4me · Aug 18, 2006

I Don't Think You Should Of Searched The History Of What This Person Was Viewing, That Is An Invasion Of Privacy.
Yes, If He Said Something Out Of Line, Then You Should Correct Him, Pray For Him...and Then Allow God To Do The Work In Him.
We All Have Sinned And Come Short Of The Glory Of God....many Of Us Have Things, Even Now, That We May Not Be Proud Of...
But As A Christian He Must Know That Nothing Is Hidden From God.
We Do Well To Be Responsible Fo Our Own Acions.
If He Is Visably Out Of Line You Should Go To Him, But You Shouldn't Go Looking For Things...that Aren't Out In The Open.
If You Dug Into Everyone In The Congregation's
Private Life, Then You May Be Leading The Whole Church Into The Pastor's Office.
Not Trying To Be Mean....i Know You Meant To Do Well....
Just Pray And Ask God What He Would Have You Do.

LJSGM · Aug 18, 2006

ub4me said:
I Don't Think You Should Of Searched The History Of What This Person Was Viewing, That Is An Invasion Of Privacy.
Yes, If He Said Something Out Of Line, Then You Should Correct Him, Pray For Him...and Then Allow God To Do The Work In Him.
We All Have Sinned And Come Short Of The Glory Of God....many Of Us Have Things, Even Now, That We May Not Be Proud Of...
But As A Christian He Must Know That Nothing Is Hidden From God.
We Do Well To Be Responsible Fo Our Own Acions.
If He Is Visably Out Of Line You Should Go To Him, But You Shouldn't Go Looking For Things...that Aren't Out In The Open.
If You Dug Into Everyone In The Congregation's
Private Life, Then You May Be Leading The Whole Church Into The Pastor's Office.
Not Trying To Be Mean....i Know You Meant To Do Well....
Just Pray And Ask God What He Would Have You Do.

That gives a sad picture of the church today. Somethings wrong.

ub4me · Aug 18, 2006

LJSGM said:
That gives a sad picture of the church today. Somethings wrong.

SPEAKING FOR MYSELF...I SIN EVERYDAY
SITUATIONS ARISE AND
I GET ANGRY, SOMETIMES ENVIOUS, SOMETIMES DOUBTFUL, SOMETIMES FEARFUL.
THE WONDERFUL THING IS I AM FORGIVEN
BECAUSE I REPENT AND ASK FORGIVNESS.
GOD'S MERCIES ARE NEW EVERY MORNING.

NOW ON ANY GIVEN DAY...BEFORE ONE HAS REPENTED
THERE COULD BE SIN BROUGHT TO LIGHT...ON JUST ABOUT ANYONE.
IF WE COULD BE PERFECT, THEN WE WOULDN'T HAVE NEED FOR A SAVIOR.
MY POINT WAS... IF THEIR IS AN OBVIOUS SIN...AN OPEN WRONG...THEN YOU HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO GO TO YOUR BROTHER...AND WARN HIM. TO PRAY WITH HIM...TO BRING HIM BEFORE WITNESSES TO TRY AND HELP HIM SEE HIS WRONG.
BUT YOU DON'T GO SEARCHING FOR A WRONG...THAT TO ME IS SAD.

Jody7818 · Aug 19, 2006

LJSGM said:
I don't feel that what was done was wrong, although, as others have suggested, maybe you could have a talk with him after much prayer. I wouldn't expect much though as there is a difference between unintentionally sinning and intentionally sinning, to go "after" women, and yet know how God expects christians to live and leaders for that matter, implies that he intentionally rebelled against God, and he has no fear in his heart for the Lord. I would then question if he really was a christian at all. Then you might have to approach him as a non-believer. Who ever said that exposing sin was wrong? It's the actions after exposing sin that can be wrong.

Thank you I'm glad to see that some on here fully understand what I was feeling in this situation.

wtopneuma · Aug 19, 2006

I personally think you should have approached him with two deacons or pastors and inform him you saw his perusal of the personal columns twice. You should have had two people from the church with you at the meeting as suggested in James. It was not your place to see how far it would go. His being a teacher, the perusal of the sites more then once was reason enough for discreet inquiry by deacons or pastors. They would be the ones responsible to expect better behavior from the sinner and to set the conditions. He could explain to them his reasons, repentance, or whatever.

AngelDove1 · Aug 19, 2006

AngelDove1 said:
well,ya can't cry over spilt milk...
most of us believe he should (soulda,woulda,coulda)
of gone to the guy first...
we all learn from our mistakes,
and from others too.

but he didn't.
Give him your prayers now and encouragement....
God is in control

"Love one another as I have loved you"
ring a bell?

repeat............

Jody7818 · Aug 19, 2006

wtopneuma said:
It was not your place to see how far it would go. His being a teacher, the perusal of the sites more then once was reason enough for discreet inquiry by deacons or pastors.

You are right. I shouldn't have seen how far it would have went when the crime had already been committed.

salida · Aug 19, 2006

Jody7818 said:
I recently caught a married man looking at personals websites on a computer at the library. He goes to the same church as I do and lives in the same neighborhood as my girlfriend. I have spoken with him on occasions, and he always seemed like a nice person.

After he was finished using the computer, I began searching the history of the webpages that he had been viewing. He had been viewing several provacative personals profiles of different women. I caught him a second time viewing the personals websites on a later date. However, this time I setup a fake account to portray a single woman seeking a single guy.

Maybe I shouldn't have done this...I don't really know. I just had to know for myself how far this guy would have went just to meet other women online. So...I emailed him with the fake name. He responded by saying he wasn't married and that he was interested in meeting me. I stopped it there. I felt like he had gone far enough in his wrong doing. Since this guy and his wife were both a part of the kids ministry at our church, I felt like our pastor should know who is working under his leadership. I certainly didn't want to turn a blind eye to this situation. So I anonomously wrote the pastor a letter providing the email messages this guy wrote to me. I also sent blog messages that his wife wrote that would further incriminate him. A couple of weeks went by, and this guy is now very bitter toward me. I can understand this in a way...but does he really think he wasn't doing anything wrong? Furthermore, his wife seems to be bitter as well. Is she condoning her husbands wrongful actions?

I feel kinda like a bad guy now for telling our pastor what was going on. I also feel bad for portraying as a single female seeking a single male. I feel like I had to do this in order to tell where his heart was really at.

Has anyone else been in this kind of situation before? Any advice on what I can say to ease his mind on my motive for telling the pastor about his ways? I didn't mean for this to be a personal action toward him. It was a way of exposing bad seed in the ministry. If he was simply an attender of the church rather than a part of the ministry, then I would have talked with him man to man rather than speaking to the pastor.

I haven't been in this situation, but the scriptures say to expose the darkness. You did right! It also showed that you really had the love of God for this man; for his soul - because hopefully now he will repent of what he has been doing. Unfortunately, porn is a large epidemic in the U.S. - a very sad thing.

TamaraLynne · Aug 21, 2006

Hmmmmmmmm...................

I have mixed emotions on this.............

I know our fight is not against flesh and blood........it is against spiritual darkness. I think talking to the man with love and praying for him and telling him that you want him to talk with the pastor about his temptations would have been good.

Judging..........................judging the man is not a good thing.
thats Gods job.
You were allowed to see this mans sin..........how you handled it was up to you. I do know that satan is also an accusser of the brethren.

And yes...............we all sin and fall short. To take up our cross is to know we are a sinner...........and it will help us to love others who also are sinners.

The fight is against satan..................do not judge this man but love him and pray for him and do spiritual warfare for him.............

apparently Jesus wants us to intercede for this man and his wife.............the man needed the help of others to fight.

Love
Tam

Jody7818 · Aug 21, 2006

TamaraLynne said:
I know our fight is not against flesh and blood........it is against spiritual darkness. I think talking to the man with love and praying for him and telling him that you want him to talk with the pastor about his temptations would have been good.

I agree. That would have been a good alternative.

TamaraLynne said:
Judging..........................judging the man is not a good thing.
thats Gods job.
You were allowed to see this mans sin..........how you handled it was up to you. I do know that satan is also an accusser of the brethren.

As far as judging goes, Jesus said in John 7:24..."Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment." I felt I was judging righteously. I never once judged him based on his appearance. I simply judged him righteously based on his choice to commit the evil he was doing. I never have looked down upon him not once during this situation. My girlfriend and I have prayed for him and his wife for God's will to be done in their life. I have continued to treat him the same as the day I met him. However, he has been bitter towards me...which is understandable based on our flesh and blood.

TamaraLynne said:
The fight is against satan..................do not judge this man but love him and pray for him and do spiritual warfare for him.............

I agree...bad spirits are tempting him to make the choice to sin. I hope and pray that he will recognize this and put on the armor of God so that he will make the choice to flee from these tempations.

Exposing someone...

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