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I just know I'll regret asking, but what books do you think I read besides the Bible?
Somewhat interesting but this was exactly what I said I would not accept. That is one guy giving his unsupported opinion. By any chance did you read my post where I quoted the Jewish Encyclopedia, the Encyclopedia Judaica and the Talmud all of which quoted scripture. If you did then you apparently rejected it but you expect me to accept one guy's opinion.
This thread is for those who came from a traditional Christian background who came to the realization God will restore every humankind to their pre-fallen nature. Anyone is free to share what books or lectures that solidified their discovery.
This thread is for those who came from a traditional Christian background who came to the realization God will restore every humankind to their pre-fallen nature. Anyone is free to share what books or lectures that solidified their discovery.
Three things will last forever—faith, hope, and love—and the greatest of these is love. 1 Cor 13:13Don't get your hopes up.
I haven't read these, but based on listening to the authors comments and lectures on youtube, I'd recommend "That All Shall Be Saved: Heaven, Hell, and Universal Salvation" by David Bentley Hart. And "Her Gates Will Never Be Shut: Hope, Hell, and the New Jerusalem" by Brad Jersak. Both authors are Eastern Orthodox PhD theologians.
tentmaker.org has a list of UR books.
For me I was out to prove it wrong but after reading a lot of pro and con I was convicted that it is true. Now my love for God has grown and I have so much more love for those outside the church. It’s been a great journey.It was a process that was unexpected. I was extremely against universalism and came across someone who was promoting it on a website. I spoke to a colleague of mine who was trained in Greek and asked him about the word eternal and if it could mean a period of time or an age and he said yes it could. But when I asked him further about it he went silent and I forgot about it for several years. At the time I was involved in evangelism ministries and also had written a sermon about hell that Baptist pastors used in their sermons. I never had a problem with eternal hell. One day while speaking to a lady who was in what I believed to be a cult I was not as kind as I should have been and after that experience I began to question why I would be so cruel if I had the holy Spirit. I believe that it was necessary for me to investigate the history of hell and purgatory. And then I also had a conversation as I was counseling Christians who believed they could lose their salvation. During this time I was doing a lot of research and I did come across Thomas Talbot . I came across the Christian universalist association. Thank you for asking.
The problem with what you said is that you are most likely looking at things from an American perspective. I have been fortunate to be able to travel to places that have no Bible to read no church to go to and many people have never even heard about Jesus to reject him. So the idea that everyone that doesn’t follow God does it by choice doesn’t add up.Definitely Salvation is open to everyone, all the world.
And all includes especially all the sinners (meaning just everyone) --
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
Nevertheless, not all actually want to turn to God it seems, though I speculatively think that initially every person would choose to at at age 2 or 3 for example, in time a person can choose over and over to go another way, until eventually they have built themselves into a new person (in other words, life is real).
And God does help the sinner to have chances to repent, such as for example in the parable of the Prodigal Son.
But not everyone does turn back to the Father even when suffering.
Some do, and some choose not to.
But God won't force us against our will ultimately. He really does respect us that much that He allows us to truly choose.
So, He makes salvation always open to us, and many will eventually choose to turn back to Him.
But we have a genuine choice. It's not just fated like we are rigidly programmed without choice, that is. So, it's real, and some will choose always away from Him. He will let them perish, in the end, because that is the most merciful.
I like the line satan most likely enjoys the credit that he has victory over Christ. I was thinking isn’t it interesting that the only camp that believe God 100% satan0% are the ones who are called heretical. I wonder if it’s not satan himself who keeps the other view going because it makes him out to be more powerful than God and that’s the way he likes it. I will probably catch a lot of flack for this .Christianity is in need of a reformation. It has been long over due. Many Christians insist that you must believe the majority of of the world will go to hell. Not to mention that many Pagan religions teach eternal hell.
Christianity isn't unique in that they teach eternal hell but what does make Christianity unique is that a savior came to rescue the world from their fallen condition and God Promises to restore the world to their pre Fallen condition. This is the promise of God and this is how God defeated Satan. But they insist God can create but cannot restore. Imagine Honda creating a car they can't fix. That is what we would call incompetence. Universalists don't believe God is incompetent but the majority of Christianity seems to think that He is. They can't see that their flesh prevents them from seeing the omnipotence of God.
The scriptures say that the flesh is weak but the spirit is willing. The flesh gets in the way. Satan most likely enjoys the credit that he has victory over Christ. This is false prophesy for anyone who propagates Christ can lose anyone.
Really the problem is that you do not accept the way UR translates one word aionios and it’s forms we (I am of the UR camp) believe that that word when translated literally means of the age or eon (we get our English word eon from that word) it can mean eternal but does not always mean that. You believe it’s best translation is eternal. That’s what it all comes down to. We read the same Bible you do and believe probably 90 some % the same things . It’s just for me UR makes the most sense when you read the Bible as a whole. No more trying to explain away the verses like It’s Gods will that none should parish/ Jesus is the savior of the world/ as in Adam all die in Christ all will be made alive. (no more the first all means all but the second all doesn’t) / Jesus loses none that the Father has given him( God gave all things to Jesus) . So that is why I am in the UR camp we are following Christ the best we know how.Show me from the scriptures that have been shared with you that are Gods' Words not my words why you disagree. If you have only been provided scripture that is in disagreement with you then who are you in disagreement with me of God whose words they are? This is the difference it is not about any of us it is always about what Gods' Word says and you have not provided any.
Take Care.
Actually that has never been my argument and I do not know how this post responds to or addresses any of my posts here to be honest. Perhaps your mixing me up with someone else?Really the problem is that you do not accept the way UR translates one word aionios and it’s forms we (I am of the UR camp) believe that that word when translated literally means of the age or eon (we get our English word eon from that word) it can mean eternal but does not always mean that. You believe it’s best translation is eternal. That’s what it all comes down to. We read the same Bible you do and believe probably 90 some % the same things . It’s just for me UR makes the most sense when you read the Bible as a whole. No more trying to explain away the verses like It’s Gods will that none should parish/ Jesus is the savior of the world/ as in Adam all die in Christ all will be made alive. (no more the first all means all but the second all doesn’t) / Jesus loses none that the Father has given him( God gave all things to Jesus) . So that is why I am in the UR camp we are following Christ the best we know how.
Wouldn't you expect This then:The problem with what you said is that you are most likely looking at things from an American perspective. I have been fortunate to be able to travel to places that have no Bible to read no church to go to and many people have never even heard about Jesus to reject him. So the idea that everyone that doesn’t follow God does it by choice doesn’t add up.
Amazing. Thank you for sharing, anything that specifically convinced you? Did you lose friends from your former belief of eternal hell? A lot of people lose friendships over it, I did and it was unfortunate but once God transforms that part of you it is hard to see things the same way you did before.For me I was out to prove it wrong but after reading a lot of pro and con I was convicted that it is true. Now my love for God has grown and I have so much more love for those outside the church. It’s been a great journey.
I haven't read these, but based on listening to the authors comments and lectures on youtube, I'd recommend "That All Shall Be Saved: Heaven, Hell, and Universal Salvation" by David Bentley Hart. And "Her Gates Will Never Be Shut: Hope, Hell, and the New Jerusalem" by Brad Jersak. Both authors are Eastern Orthodox PhD theologians.
tentmaker.org has a list of UR books.
I found the book I was thinking about, maybe you have heard of this author.
Christ the Conqueror of Hell: The Descent into Hades from an Orthodox Perspective Paperback – November 20, 2009
by Archbishop Hilarion Alfeyev
WHO DO YOU BELIEVE?
Amazing. All I hear here in this thread by those who teach Universalism are empty word in disagreement with God's Word and no scripture to support their view. I think it was the same approach used by the religious teachers in the days of Jesus who crucified Him and called Him of the devil and His followers a cult while making claims to being Gods' children because they were the children of Abraham. That is a class of people we should not want to find ourselves in. Let's all pray that we are not in that class of people. There is no scripture in all the bible that teaches the wicked will be saved. It is a false teaching first told to Eve in the garden of Eden that you can disobey God and not surely die in Genesis 3:1-5 when God says if we do this we sill surely die. Jesus says the same thing in His own words in John 3:36. You all are not seriously going to tell me that Jesus was lying now are you and that wicked who do not believe Gods' Word and continue in known unrepentant sin disobeying Gods' Word will receive everlasting life when Jesus also says unless you repent you will all likewise perish? There is no second chances when Jesus returns according to the scriptures.
You all take care now.
Really? Post me a single scripture that says that all the wicked will receive everlasting life at the second coming? - There is none. Universalism, is a false teaching first told to Eve in the garden of Eden that you can disobey God and not surely die in Genesis 3:1-5 when God says if we do this we sill surely die. Jesus says the same thing in His own words in John 3:36. Your not seriously going to tell me that Jesus was lying now are you and that wicked who do not believe Gods' Word and continue in known unrepentant sin disobeying Gods' Word will not receive everlasting life when Jesus also says unless you repent you will all likewise perish? There is no second chances when Jesus returns according to the scriptures.Actually they present a lot of scripture to support their view.
Prove it and lets see if your claims are true or not. I guess I am going to hear and see silence on that request though sadly. You have no scripture now do you Brian to support your claims in this regard do you. I am happy to have an honest and open discussion with you if you are willing. Let's bring everything to the light of Gods Word and see if what we both are saying is true or not. This can only be edifying right?What they don't do is cobble random excerpts into a montage that says whatever you want it to. Neither do they issue thinly shrouded threats of condemnation.
Actually they present a lot of scripture to support their view. What they don't do is cobble random excerpts into a montage that says whatever you want it to. Neither do they issue thinly shrouded threats of condemnation.
I like the line satan most likely enjoys the credit that he has victory over Christ. I was thinking isn’t it interesting that the only camp that believe God 100% satan0% are the ones who are called heretical. I wonder if it’s not satan himself who keeps the other view going because it makes him out to be more powerful than God and that’s the way he likes it. I will probably catch a lot of flack for this .
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