Explaining Mystical Experience

[JM]

When I first believed and was sorting out my theology I read The Cloud of Unknowing and practice centering prayer. Soon after I did have a few experiences that I cannot explain. How do you explain Christian mysticism or mystical Christian experience? Why is mysticism chiefly found in Romanism and the Eastern Orthodox denomination?


Thanks,


jm

 

[LordDuncanBurneWilke]

Mystical experiences deal with the unconscious or subconscious. Most mainline protestant traditions as well as for the most part EOC and RCC church deal mainly with the conscious. Some people just prefer and are more comfortable with just the conscious. Heck, most people aren't even aware of their subconscious. It can be a confusing and scary journey, but worth it for the most part.

 

[JM]

Is there a subconscious? I don't know. What does the Bible teach on the subject?

Does a dog have Buddha nature?

Mu!

lol

 

[LordDuncanBurneWilke]

Is there a subconscious?

I think there is. It's like the iceberg picture. We are more subconscious then conscious. When you discover your subconscious you start to gain more control over your conscious. It's not for everyone though.

What does the Bible teach on the subject?

Officially? Not much. Unoffically? Well....I don't feel like getting banned (again).

Does a dog have Buddha nature?

Who knows. I don't really think much about it.

lol

quite.

 

[rnmomof7]

When I first believed and was sorting out my theology I read The Cloud of Unknowing and practice centering prayer. Soon after I did have a few experiences that I cannot explain. How do you explain Christian mysticism or mystical Christian experience? Why is mysticism chiefly found in Romanism and the Eastern Orthodox denomination?


Thanks,


jm

I never limit God ....but coming from an RC background I know they SEEK for that mystic experience as evidence of whatever it is they want to prove to themselves or others..

But as we know many of their experiences are self induced or satanic in origin ....

I do not rule out a spiritual experience as a gift of God ... John had one ...

I think discernment is the key here .

 

[hedrick]

To my knowledge the Bible doesn’t speak of the unconscious. That’s a modern way of describing as aspect of our experience. But the Bible, both OT and NT, certainly describes what most people would call mystical experience. The most common seems to be encounters with God in dreams, but Moses and Paul both had them waking. Then of course we have the prophets, both those with explicit messages such as the written prophets, and the bands of prophets referred to in the OT but not described in much detail. They seem to have had excstatic experience.

What is less common is descriptions of techniques to create experiences. There certainly is Jewish mysticism, and I believe some of it goes back to at least the 1st Cent. But the only explicit descriptions I recall is Jesus in the wilderness, who used fasting as a way to encourage religious experience. I've got to believe that at least some of the prophets (not so much the ones ones with books of the OT as the roaming ecstatics) engaged in mystical practice, but the Bible doesn't describe it.

 

[JM]

...the Bible, both OT and NT, certainly describes what most people would call mystical experience.


What is less common is descriptions of techniques to create experiences.

I agree with that. It's important to recognize that God, at times, will deal with His people differently.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

I've had my share of the unexplained, mostly in years gone by. My approach has somewhat changed over time. I'm all in favor of pouring water on the altar and then praying for fire (1 Kings 18:33-38). God can overcome any obstacle, so we might as well stop trying to make miracles happen and aim to obviate them, so to speak. As an example, I once tried anointing people in secret. I prayed over the oil, and I prayed over my hands, and then I touched people casually, by handshake or a pat on the back, without telling them what I was doing, and they reacted with surprise to the feeling of the power of the Holy Spirit, quite immediately. I'll probably never do that again, but I say it to point out how different it would have been if someone had been told that they were being anointed and prayed for. They might have felt something, but then one wonders how much they would have experienced because they were expecting it. I could get myself worked up into a charismatic experience, but I want to be able to discern between the Holy Spirit and the adrenal gland.

I hesitate to call it "mysticism," as that tends to be associated with pantheism. Is there a better term?

 

[gord44]

As an example, I once tried anointing people in secret. I prayed over the oil, and I prayed over my hands, and then I touched people casually, by handshake or a pat on the back, without telling them what I was doing, and they reacted with surprise to the feeling of the power of the Holy Spirit, quite immediately.

Cool! That's how it works. You create an idea, then associate an action with it, perform that action then watch the results. Sounds like you had good intentions so the result seemed to be good (ie people noticing some sort of power).

I hesitate to call it "mysticism," as that tends to be associated with pantheism. Is there a better term?

Mysticism exists in pretty much all religions paths. There is Christian mystics, Islamic mystics, etc. Interestingly enough a Christian mystic would probably be able to communicate better with a Islamic or Hindu mystic then he could with a Christian who wasn't into mysticism.

 

[twin1954]

While I recognize that there is a spiritual existence and a physical we live, for now, in the physical. I also recognize that we battle against principalities and powers in the spiritual, Eph. 6:12, yet we do so in the physical. God does not speak to His people in visions and dreams any longer He speaks by His Word. Heb. 1:1. The Apostle Peter made it very clear that we are not to put our faith and trust in visions and dreams:
(2Pe 1:16) For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

(2Pe 1:17) For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

(2Pe 1:18) And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

(2Pe 1:19) We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:


(2Pe 1:20) Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

(2Pe 1:21) For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Mysticism is very dangerous. What it does is cause folks to put their faith in dreams and visions rather than the Lord Jesus Christ. Faith is not an experience it is a rest in facts that are spiritually understood. The truth of the Gospel doesn't come to the elect by dreams and visions it comes by the foolishness of the preaching of the Gospel in the power of the Spirit.

Mysticism tends to interpret the Word by the dreams and visions rather than the dreams and visions by the Word.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

Twin, how would you understand Acts 2:17?

 

[SinnerInTheHands]

How do you explain Christian mysticism or mystical Christian experience?

"And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh; your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, and your young men shall see visions." [Joel 2:28]

 

[twin1954]

Twin, how would you understand Acts 2:17?

Pentecost was the fulfillment of the quote from Joel. Yes they did have visions and dreams as Paul did in Acts 16 but those things were needed for the establishment of the church. They are no longer needed as we have the completed Word of God in the Scriptures. Moreover, the Apostles were equipped to handle the extraordinary experiences while most folks today cannot. That is why there is such abuse of the so-called gifts.

 

[SinnerInTheHands]

Pentecost was the fulfillment of the quote from Joel. Yes they did have visions and dreams as Paul did in Acts 16 but those things were needed for the establishment of the church. They are no longer needed as we have the completed Word of God in the Scriptures. Moreover, the Apostles were equipped to handle the extraordinary experiences while most folks today cannot. That is why there is such abuse of the so-called gifts.

Be careful to distinguish between glossolalia and visions/dreams. No one I've met yet has claimed that Pentecost was the fulfillment of Joel 2:28, as within context, that makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[twin1954]

Be careful to distinguish between glossolalia and visions/dreams. No one I've met yet has claimed that Pentecost was the fulfillment of Joel 2:28, as within context, that makes no sense whatsoever.

Peter seems to believe it is the fulfillment of Joel 2;

(Act 2:14) But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

(Act 2:15) For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

(Act 2:16) But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

(Act 2:17) And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

As for the gifts, I recognize the difference but there is a definite connection in how the gifts are abused and how mysticism influences.

 

[Catherineanne]

When I first believed and was sorting out my theology I read The Cloud of Unknowing and practice centering prayer. Soon after I did have a few experiences that I cannot explain. How do you explain Christian mysticism or mystical Christian experience? Why is mysticism chiefly found in Romanism and the Eastern Orthodox denomination?


Thanks,


jm

Afaict, Anglicans tend not to talk about such experiences. But they do happen.

 

[Catherineanne]

Mysticism is very dangerous. What it does is cause folks to put their faith in dreams and visions rather than the Lord Jesus Christ. Faith is not an experience it is a rest in facts that are spiritually understood. The truth of the Gospel doesn't come to the elect by dreams and visions it comes by the foolishness of the preaching of the Gospel in the power of the Spirit.

Mysticism tends to interpret the Word by the dreams and visions rather than the dreams and visions by the Word.

Nonsense.

All prayer is mystical; there is nothing dangerous about it.

Mysticism is not about dreams; they are something entirely different. Mysticism is simply turning our awareness to God.

 

[twin1954]

Nonsense.

All prayer is mystical; there is nothing dangerous about it.

Mysticism is not about dreams; they are something entirely different. Mysticism is simply turning our awareness to God.

There is a difference between the mystical and mysticism. We are constantly in the mystical when we deal with spiritual things but mysticism focuses on the experience rather than on the Word. That is why mysticism is dangerous.

 

[tucker58]

When I first believed and was sorting out my theology I read The Cloud of Unknowing and practice centering prayer. Soon after I did have a few experiences that I cannot explain. How do you explain Christian mysticism or mystical Christian experience? Why is mysticism chiefly found in Romanism and the Eastern Orthodox denomination?


Thanks,


jm

I have been a Christian mystic since I was five years old and I will be 66 this month. My first prayer to God in the name of Lord Jesus at five years old resulted in an experience (mystical) that effected me for the rest of my life. And I have been a mystic (for lack of any other term ) ever since. At the that time I made that prayer I did not know that God existed or that Lord Jesus existed because my family was not religious so they didn't talk about those things. After that prayer I new beyond a shadow of a doubt that both God and Lord Jesus were real and that both were loving.

What is the mystical Christian experience? Based on my experience you can talk to God The Father and to the Son Lord Jesus and they will talk with to you. I don't have visions or that kind of stuff, it is just a constant one on one visit over my life time. From this I have learned a lot about a lot of things. And the experience has brought me into a very close relationship with Lord Jesus and The Father in spite of the fact that I had a tendency to be an awkward child because of my early personality programming which most of which does not exist anymore (been changed) because of this relationship. And these changes that I went through were very difficult and painful because one really hates to give up their old self.

 

[tucker58]

Nonsense.

All prayer is mystical; there is nothing dangerous about it.

Mysticism is not about dreams; they are something entirely different. Mysticism is simply turning our awareness to God.

What you have said fits my experience perfectly