xsimmsx said:
No we couldn't and still be true to the number One. you see if God is divided into three persons then he is not One but he is three.
And some beleive that.. I do not, I guess I use different terminology than you, but I accept that 1+1+1=1 not 3. 1+1+1 being the 3 (insert word here) of the Bible mentioned: Father, Son, Spirit. They each are defined, and have characteristics that vary, but they are all One God. They are "seperate because they have "personal" characteristics when depicted in scripture...when their "titles" are used: Father, Son, and Spirit.
You will not see a distinction as you have worded it between Holy Spirit and the Father because there is none.
I am not sure what you are referring to. In my example you repsonded to, I said Father and Son.
The distinction that you will see is always between father and son.
In other words God and man.
or In other words Spirit and flesh.
When you say "God and man" above, are referring to mankind in general when you use the word "man"? If so, then lets just talk about God.. leave us out of it, since we are not God, thus not part of the topic on the Trinity Doctrine.
Or, are are you referrign to the "Son" when you say man? If so, then I can follow you in making a distinction between Father and Son, so long as we agree that the Father is God and the Son is God.
Notice what you said in I Corinthians 12:11.....see how it says selfsame spirit
That means he is his own self meaning
Can you show me how you arrived at this?
From my understanding, the word "Selfsame" in the text is translated form the greek word
autos, which is a pronoun which in by itself signifies nothing more than "again" applies to what has already been mention in the past. Also, in some cases when the entire discouse is looked at it can signify somethig that must be applied.
if he is the only Spirit then you can't have another spirit or it is not him.
I never said there was more than one "Spirit" of God. There is only one: The Holy Spirit.
Jesus describes his Father as a Spirit.
Scripture?
We know him as God the Father we also know him as the Holy Spirit.
Hmm.. by "him" you mean "God" or "Father"? I know God as the Holy Spirit, as well as Father, but I do not know the Father as the Holy Spirit.
There is no distinction between the two because there is not two there is only One Spirit and he is holy and he is our Father. "Holy Spirit" and "Father" are just titles that we use to describe the same exact being. that eliminates a trinity of persons. Jesus also claims to be this Spirit at times and to be this Spirit's Son at others. And he was both as soon as he was born. The 2 wills deasl with his human will and his Divine will. He had a will as a man and he had a will as God. Much in the same way that we have two wills warring against one another inside our members. The difference with Jesus is that he didn't have the war of wills because he was without sin. But he still had the human tendencies of a human's will. Check out his prayers in the Garden of Gethsemane notice Jesus words......
Matthew 26:36-42
36Then comes Jesus with them to a place called Gethsemane, and said to the disciples, Sit you here, while I go and pray yonder. 37And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy. 38Then said he to them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even to death: tarry you here, and watch with me. 39And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as you will. 40And he comes to the disciples, and finds them asleep, and said to Peter, What, could you not watch with me one hour? 41Watch and pray, that you enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak. 42He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, your will be done.
Look first at verse 38. Jesus says "My soul is exceeding sorrowful..."
Here Jesus is describing his human attribute being sorroful notice that he doesn't mention a spiritual sorrow. That's because the Spirit in him was not sorrowful. Oh but his flesh was. Look at verse 41 "The Spirit indeed is willing"
God was willing able and ready. "but the flesh is weak" However the human body was like O NO not death!!!. --obviously my words here to show the teaching. The human Son always prayed to the divine Father. It was a real relationship and a real need but it was not a seperation of persons.
Furthermore the Son became Spirit when he was glorified. So he is what he has always been divinely our Father and he now has a human identity with which to identify with us. Jesus Christ our Savior. For it is written in the scripture of truth....
Why Woulde John say that there are 3 who testify in Heaven, if there is only one who testifys?
II Corinthians 3:17:
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
No seperation of person's there. Your One Lord Jesus Christ is that Spirit that One Spirit we call the Holy Spirit. God our Father.[/quote]
If "Lord" in that verse is directly referencing Jesus Christ, then perahps what you say is correct, however, in context with Exodus 34:34, we see that the object being called Lord is not Jesus Christ (the man who Paul new), but it is God (as the poeple knew God to be at the time of Moses.
Paul is further supporting the Fact that the Holy Spirit is God in this verse. Thre verse is not directly tlaking about the Son. The passage is about the holy Spirit, and the verse is linking and validating the holy Spirit of the New Covanent, with the God of Moses and Abraham in the Old Covanent.