Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed... A movie review

can't wait to see it

BenAdam said:

can't wait to see it

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same here

Yes I saw it Saturday. I thought it was very well done. Especially for a documentary.

I don't want to say too much about it for fear of ruining it for those who are yet to see it. One thing that stuck out to me was how none of the Darwin evolutionary theorists could adequately explain how life "began". It sure does expose the fact that free speech does not exist in the scientific community and educational institutions in this country. No other theory regarding the origins of life on earth can even be talked about except evolution. If ID(intelligent design) is even brought up...well, the movie documents very well what happens.

Well done documentary.

I don't want to hijack your thread but a quick side note observation. I usually go to IMDB (internet movie database) website before going to see a movie to see what the opinion of others are that have actually seen the film. I have always been amazed at how many people post absolutely vicious attacks about any movie even slightly related to anything Christian or about God or a creator in general. I'm talking atheist central there. According to religious demographics for the US, only .5 percent of the population is atheist and the same for agnostic. I'm guessing the vile, hostile posts on that website are at least 60-70 percent of the total.

Visit expelledexposed.com so you will have a complete look at the issue. I know everyone likes seeing the whole story before deciding they know "the truth" and nobody wants to be played for a sucker.

Frisbee said:

They are absolutely frantic about this film.

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No, the only reason scientists are worried is because there are enough people out there that are unenlightened enough to believe this crockumentary.

Regardless of Ben Stein's insistence that this film is not about ID/evo and that evolution has nothing to do with Nazism (although I wouldn't call you entirely impartial of that one if you string together an entire montage of concentration camps etc in your film), there are enough people out there who WILL take it as such, e.g:

http://richarddawkins.net/article,2...f-Ben-Steins-lying-propaganda,Richard-Dawkins

ID is not a scientific theory - it is poorly disguised religious politics, see the Wedge Strategy for more info. Goodness, I'd rather that YECs made a film rather than IDists, at least they're honest. ID is essentially a giant argument from ignorance against evolution - in all my time spent discussing and debating cre/evo noone has ever posted scientific data that independently supports ID. All that happens is people bang on and on about how they can't believe evolution happened, which isn't scientific evidence.

As ID is not scientific, it will not be accepted until it gets something that can be vaguely construed as evidence, and rightly so. We didn't get to where we were today scientifically and technologically by playing a popularity contest. Evolutionary theory has practical modern day uses for new times of medicines and therapy - wasting scientists' time with this kind of nonsense is just going to delay that. Oh well, yet another nail in the coffin for science in the US (given that Dubya has effectively crippled many of the US's finest labs to fund whatever crazed war he wants to start next). Not to mention being "un-American," it'll effectively cripple progress in future generations if this kind of mindset keeps insisting upon science.

Honestly, what do the ID crowd expect to get out of this film? They aren't really happy to just "teach the controversy" - the sort of people behind this film want evolution done away with altogether - so why do they expect evolutionary biologists to shoot themselves in the foot by giving ID equal weight academically? And yet in response ID proponents are going to keep on complaining about how they're being oppressed.

It's not surprising that ID isn't taken seriously, if this kind of playground tactics is all they can come up with in response to criticism.

P.S: Might want to take a look at this as well.

http://www.sunclipse.org/?p=626

I didn't think opinions about the movie and subject would take such a negative turn so quickly.

Am I at the IMDB website board for the Ben Stein documentary "Expelled, No Intelligence Allowed"?

Nope. I just checked and I'm at Christian forums.

If I was a betting person, I'd bet this is going to be a long thread.

P.S. Starting my counter for how many times a poster in favor of no other theory for the origins of life except evolution calls someone who believes in ID or creationism an "idiot".

Frisbee said:

You watch the film, then I'll consider what you said!

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Total and utter cop-out. This is exactly the kind of playground tactics I'm talking about.

Frisbee said:

The part that is absolutely knee slapping hillarious to me is that the comments I'm seeing by folks who oppose this film are all coming from people who haven't seen the film

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Forgive me, I live in a small Scottish university town. New releases take a while to get here.

Of course, with this one, I'm expecting it won't. You see, over here, intelligence IS allowed.

But I've heard enough about the film, especially one as notorious as this one (breaking copyright laws, tut tut tut) to at least discuss some of its aspects.

Frisbee said:

Because I know that if I just tell the truth, that I will do a fantastic job at getting the truth out!

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Really? And what truth would that be? Check my faith icon. It's possible to believe evolution and remain a Christian. I've yet to be convinced otherwise.

Frisbee said:

Problem with the anti-ID folks is that they want to silence any voice but that of neo-Darwinists.

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How would you like being completely and unfairly generalised and compared to Nazis? I could say that all members of Calvary Church Chapel are paedophiles, and it would uncalled for, and totally inaccurate.

Also, think about how illogical silencing ALL voices but ours would be. If we were so concerned about being right, we'd leave a few people around so they could realise how great we were. But, of course, it's far from that.

Frisbee said:

It was the point that Ben Stein made, and the point you just made.

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*facepalm*

How about you actually answer my points, rather than put words in my mouth? Nowhere did I say I wanted everyone who disagreed with me silenced.

Frisbee said:

The topic is the film, a review of the film in particular. You haven't seen it, and said you wont. What's left to discuss? You said I was copping out by asking you to see the film in a thread about a movie review for a film. Are you aware of how ridiculous that sounds?

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I didn't say I won't. Just that it's not scheduled for release over here. And we'd prefer not to send our nation's science down the tubes, so I hope it receives a lot less press over here.

I said you were copping out by refusing to answer my questions. And you quite clearly are.

And you wouldn't believe how often other Christians pull the "I don't need to read Harry Potter / listen to rock music / verb the noun to know that it's bad" line.

Frisbee said:

Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed is about academic freedom, not a debate on the merits of competing theories to an age old question that Richard Dawkins himself admits can not be answered. Of course if you saw the film, you'd know that.

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And yet again you fail to understand - you can't separate merit of theory from academic freedom because ID DOES NOT PRESENT EVIDENCE. A theory gains its freedom in the academic arena BY its merit as a theory at explaining observations. Science isn't a matter of going "ooh I like that theory, let's say that's right." If people want to believe in ID, that is totally fine. However, it does not yet have what it takes to even be discussed in the same arena as evolution. Evolution is tried and tested, in realms beyond mere palaeontology etc. If ID was made falsifiable and could make ONE testable and repeatable observation based on its theory, ONE! Then it would be a step in the right direction. Because these things are inextricable, I always ask ID proponents for some actual scientific theory based on ID. Every time I have gotten back rebuttals to evolution. Granted, rebuttal is part of science, but then new, solid theory needs to be put in its place. ID has failed at both steps.

Frisbee said:

This is who you're defending Cabal. You mentioned that you are a believer, so thought it was relevant to bring up, wouldn't you agree? What do you have to say about that comment? Ben Stein started to quote him and Dawkins actually stopped him and read it himself! He seemed very proud of the quote.

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Irrelevant - I think Dawkins has as much of a chip on his shoulder as do most YEC/ID proponents, but at least he's honest about what he believes. He doesn't make films that violate multiple copyrights. He doesn't insinuate that his opponents are sociopathic, while insisting that that's exactly the opposite of what he's saying.

If you're going to make those kind of insinuations, I may as well compare you to the geocentrists who oppressed Copernicus and Galileo. Again, totally unjustified. I endorse the same theory - I do not by extension support Dawkin's atheist worldview.

Maybe you'd now like to answer my question - how would you feel if you and everyone in your denomination were compared to something completely outrageously, like paedophilia?

You wanna talk about being a believer? What about "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"? What about "not bearing false testimony"? What about "encourage one another and build each other up?"

Just remembered another scene from the movie towards the end when Stein is interviewing the grand high pubah professor of the Darwinian evolutionists Dawkins.

This revered professor in the scientific community could not explain how the very first living cell on earth could have been formed from the elements present.

It is so complex that it would take millions and millions of simultaneous highly unlikely combinations of things to happen,(which Darwin would not have had knowledge of in the 19th century) for the proteins to be formed to even begin the assimillation necessary.

One theory that was very revealing from Dawkins,(and other so called renowned scientists), was that HIGHLY INTELLIGENT LIFE from somewhere else planted a seed on earth.

Is not that the whole discussion? The possibility from the current established scientific community that ID could be another theory and worthy of AT LEAST discussion? Not total rejection?

Bottom line: All the scientists interviewed supporting evolution were atheists. Some were not so before adopting their positions siding with Darwin. (If I'm wrong about this please correct me from those who have seen the film). They are mortified that if ID is ever entertained in the scientific community, there will follow a discussion about a creator/supreme being in the firmament. That cannot be allowed in any way, shape or form in their atheistic mindset. IMO

Frisbee said:

Your child molestation comparison is highly offensive Cabal.

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Now you begin to understand. This is how this film treats scientists who accept evolution - to compare us all to Nazis - this is how hurt and angry we feel. As a Christian scientist, who believes in evolution, having a large proportion of my brothers and sisters in Christ so blithely accept this film and reject any critique of it (even from a fellow-believer) with total smugness and arrogance is a bit of a slap in the face to say the least.

Frisbee said:

But I will tell you that most of the folks I go to church with disagree with me on this. Almost to the one they are Young Earth Creationists, but you know what? Nobody attacks my beliefs. We politely agree to disagree.

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If you believe ID, that's fine - I have no problem with you doing that. And I am truly sorry for coming on the attack to begin with. But please be aware of how endorsing a film like this may have an affect on your brother in Christ. Even if you think your brother is crazy to believe in evolution - do not be a stumbling block to him by comparing him to a Nazi!

If we evolved from apes, why are there still apes?

The whole scenario is ridiculous. Once one can get by the prospect of the formation/creation of a single solitary living cell from the primitive elements available...OK, now take the giant leap to a human being from a single living cell thru the process of evolution?