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Exodus 24:9-11

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junezephyr

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9 Then Moses went up, also Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, 10 and they saw the God of Israel. And there was under His feet as it were a paved work of sapphire stone, and it was like the very heavens in its clarity, 11 But on the nobles of the children of Israel He did not lay His hand. So they saw God, and they ate and drank. - Exodus 24:9-11

So I was wondering if any of you had insight into this. Were Moses and the other leaders of Israel in the presence of Jesus here?
 
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ContentInHim

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Well, I'm not sure. I don't think so - or the personage would have been called Angel of the Lord as Jesus was normally referred to in the OT. That said, they wouldn't have been sitting down with God, no matter what the words say - or they would have died. Jews believe that they saw a vision of God. Interestingly, the 2 sons of Aaron who did not sin before God were not included in that company. Hmmm - lots of meat there to chew on! :wave:
 
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dcyates

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9 Then Moses went up, also Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, 10 and they saw the God of Israel. And there was under His feet as it were a paved work of sapphire stone, and it was like the very heavens in its clarity, 11 But on the nobles of the children of Israel He did not lay His hand. So they saw God, and they ate and drank. - Exodus 24:9-11

So I was wondering if any of you had insight into this. Were Moses and the other leaders of Israel in the presence of Jesus here?
It's certainly an intriguing passage, isn't it? Whether or not the elders of Israel were in the presence of Jesus, the second Person of the Trinity, we of course cannot be sure, but personally I have my doubts; the text lacks all the regular earmarks that exist in the OT when the faithful are being visited by some angelic being who later turns out to have been God.

Something of which I think we can be a little surer are the parallels that exist between this strange encounter and the last supper. In Exodus we're told that there was "set upright twelve large stones to represent the twelve tribes of Israel" (Exod 24.4). Then we have burnt and peace offerings being made and Moses sprinkling the sacrificial blood on the people of Israel and declaring, "This is the blood of the covenant which YHWH has made with you in accordance with all these words" (Exod 24.8), whereupon the elders ascend the mountain and eat and drink a covenantal meal in the presence of God in order to ratify that covenant. Later we find the twelve disciples of Jesus eat and drink a covenantal meal in his presence (in an UPstairs room?), where he declares, "...this is my blood of the [new]* covenant, shed on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins" (Matt 26.28).

*Although Matthew doesn't specifically say that this is a "new" covenant, Luke does, and some extant manuscripts have added "new" to the text, probably to harmonize Matthew (and Mark) with Luke.
 
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childofGod31

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dcyates,

yes, it is interesting. I never really knew that there was that parallel in the Bible: the Lord eating supper with 12 tribes of Israel - to seal the old covenant.

And the Lord eating supper with 12 disciples to seal the new covenant.

Very interesting.
 
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junezephyr

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It's certainly an intriguing passage, isn't it? Whether or not the elders of Israel were in the presence of Jesus, the second Person of the Trinity, we of course cannot be sure, but personally I have my doubts; the text lacks all the regular earmarks that exist in the OT when the faithful are being visited by some angelic being who later turns out to have been God.

Something of which I think we can be a little surer are the parallels that exist between this strange encounter and the last supper. In Exodus we're told that there was "set upright twelve large stones to represent the twelve tribes of Israel" (Exod 24.4). Then we have burnt and peace offerings being made and Moses sprinkling the sacrificial blood on the people of Israel and declaring, "This is the blood of the covenant which YHWH has made with you in accordance with all these words" (Exod 24.8), whereupon the elders ascend the mountain and eat and drink a covenantal meal in the presence of God in order to ratify that covenant. Later we find the twelve disciples of Jesus eat and drink a covenantal meal in his presence (in an UPstairs room?), where he declares, "...this is my blood of the [new]* covenant, shed on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins" (Matt 26.28).

*Although Matthew doesn't specifically say that this is a "new" covenant, Luke does, and some extant manuscripts have added "new" to the text, probably to harmonize Matthew (and Mark) with Luke.

This is a really interesting parallel. Were the disciples actually from each tribe of Israel or did they just represent them? I've still got a lot to learn :sorry:
 
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ContentInHim

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This is a really interesting parallel. Were the disciples actually from each tribe of Israel or did they just represent them? I've still got a lot to learn :sorry:
In theory, the disciples would have been only from Judah, Benjamin and Levi as they were the only tribes which returned from the captivity. The northern 10 tribes (9 tribes and 2 half tribes from Joseph) never returned from the diaspora. It's thought that many of them are now returning from Russia, Ethiopia and India of all places. :thumbsup:

I love that there's always something new to learn. :)
 
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junezephyr

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In theory, the disciples would have been only from Judah, Benjamin and Levi as they were the only tribes which returned from the captivity. The northern 10 tribes (9 tribes and 2 half tribes from Joseph) never returned from the diaspora. It's thought that many of them are now returning from Russia, Ethiopia and India of all places. :thumbsup:

I love that there's always something new to learn. :)

Thanks for the clarification :)

By returning, do you mean to the Promised land? (Forgive me for my lack of knowledge...I'm still a fairly new Christian)
 
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dcyates

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This is a really interesting parallel. Were the disciples actually from each tribe of Israel or did they just represent them? I've still got a lot to learn :sorry:
Believe me, jbug, we've all still got a lot to learn.;) I've been studying the Bible for my entire adult life and have taught college-level biblical theology courses at two different schools and yet have just barely begun to scratch the surface.

Anyway, in answer to your query...
No, they wouldn't have been from each of the 12 tribes. After the northern kingdom of Israel had been conquered by the Assyrian Empire in 722 BC, ten(ish) of those tribes were lost to the mists of history. It was Assyrian policy to deport conquered peoples from their homelands and then to spread them throughout their empire, in effect forcing them to intermarry with other conquered peoples. This was done in order to quell any lingering nationalistic feelings that may ferment within those who were otherwise vanguished but who were allowed to ghetto-ize and thus stay amongst their own kind. Their reasoning was that it was less likely that you would pine wistfully for 'the old country' if either your mom or dad wasn't even from there. The result was that, by-and-large, those ten tribes were irrevocably lost and it would take nothing less than a full-blown miracle from God to restore Israel to her former wholeness.
(The Jews we have today are predominantly of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin and Levi--the Levites being the priestly tribe that had been scattered throughout ancient Israel.)

That Jesus was said to have 12 disciples--even though we know he had more than that--and carried out a healing ministry indicates that he came to fully restore both Israel and the image of God within humanity.
 
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dcyates

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In theory, the disciples would have been only from Judah, Benjamin and Levi as they were the only tribes which returned from the captivity. The northern 10 tribes (9 tribes and 2 half tribes from Joseph) never returned from the diaspora. It's thought that many of them are now returning from Russia, Ethiopia and India of all places. :thumbsup:

I love that there's always something new to learn. :)
Ahh, well, ContentInHim already beat me to answering this question--and did it with far greater brevity, too.
 
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