Evolution

Husky7 · Oct 15, 2010

1whirlwind said:
19:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Actually this verse is talking about how the Gentiles/pagans made an uncorruptible God, into a corruptible god in the image of man, birds, beasts, and other things. It's talking about the Greek/Roman/Egyptian mythology, and how they changed God into a corruptible image. It's not talking about evolution here.

1whirlwind · Oct 16, 2010

Husky7 said:
Actually this verse is talking about how the Gentiles/pagans made an uncorruptible God, into a corruptible god in the image of man, birds, beasts, and other things. It's talking about the Greek/Roman/Egyptian mythology, and how they changed God into a corruptible image. It's not talking about evolution here.

We are made in the "image" of God. Some men changed that image into an evolutionary trail of animals to man. The image of God, to those He terms fools, has become the image of animals to man which is.....evolution.

.

UpperEschelon · Oct 16, 2010

1whirlwind said:
We are made in the "image" of God. Some men changed that image into an evolutionary trail of animals to man. The image of God, to those He terms fools, has become the image of animals to man which is.....evolution.

.

I would agree with you 1whirlwind. In order to integrate evolution, we now have to view man as living and existence prior to being "in" the image of God. That is, man existed for millions of years as primitive, debased humanoids devoid of intellect, reason, and all related capacities (spirtual especially). No thanks.

Husky7 · Oct 16, 2010

1whirlwind said:
We are made in the "image" of God. Some men changed that image into an evolutionary trail of animals to man. The image of God, to those He terms fools, has become the image of animals to man which is.....evolution.
.

This verse is not talking about Charles Darwin's theory of evolution, it's simply talking about how and why man made their god's and goddesses into the form of corruptible beings, and things which man could explain and see. The point that Paul was trying to make in this section was that God is not like the animals of the earth, and he does not look like mortal man, he can't be corrupted like the creatures he created.

Romans 1:20-32, " For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made,[even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God,neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."

So, again Paul is explaining to the Romans why God gave them over to the evil in their hearts. He explains why they, (the Romans/pagans) started to worship corruptible images, rather than God himself. Paul is not talking about "evolution" here, for the theory of evolution didn't exist until many years later. For the record, I do not believe in the theory of evolution...I'm not defending it in any way shape or form.

ivebeenshown · Oct 16, 2010

1whirlwind said:
We are made in the "image" of God. Some men changed that image into an evolutionary trail of animals to man. The image of God, to those He terms fools, has become the image of animals to man which is.....evolution..

I agree with you that evolution is destructive to the heritage of Adam and Eve, but Husky7 is indeed correct in what he says about that particular verse.

Fireinfolding · Oct 16, 2010

Compare these two places...

Dan 5:22 And thou his son, O Belshazzar, hast not humbled thine heart, though thou knewest all this; Dan 5:23 ... and thou hast praised the gods of silver, and gold, of brass, iron, wood, and stone, which see not, nor hear, nor know: and the God in whose hand thy breath is, and whose are all thy ways, hast thou not glorified:

Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Even the calf they made was a fourfooted beast they worshipped

It was the INVISIBLE things of God which are understood by what is seen but the Godhead is not like unto the these, dont you think its talking about the making of the images, the calf being as a fourfooted beast

Exodus 32:8 They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf

1Cr 10:7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. (See 1Cr 5:11 & Ephes 5:5 Acts 7:41 & Exd 32:4 Exd 32:8 Duet 4:16)

Or even after the image of a man, as expressed here?

Duet 4:16 Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female,

Ezek 16:17-18 Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them, And tookest thy broidered garments, and coveredst them: and thou hast set mine oil and mine incense before them.

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

sk8Joyful · Oct 16, 2010

1whirlwind said:
Romans 1:19-22 Because
that which may be known ofGod is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen,
being understood by the things that are made; so that they are without excuse:
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God,
neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, their foolish heart darkened.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

These "fools," are clearly shown that there is a God....
He shows them in nature and He is "clearly seen," so...there is NO excuse.
But,
the fools, thinking themselves so wise, so scholarly,
so above silly ignorant beliefs such as love of God
"became vain in their imaginations," coming up with the idea of....
19:23 Evolution. Instead of being created in His image, these fools change this truth into us evolving from floating pond scum, to amphibious creatures, to apes, to humans.

Silly men. Men without excuse.

Genesis 1:27

(when I was 7, I asked the communist atheist-teacher: IF
man evolved from apes, WHY are so many apes, monkeys,
algae-species, & other critters continuing...? as they have for millenias... )

Yes, they best acknowledge God: as Creator, Savior
& Resurrector

& enjoy an on-going relationship with God
YET,
with all due respect, atheists are not the only fools, professing to be wise.

Both atheists & christians often foolishly (& sadly tragically) worship at the altar of conventional science.
Thus,
also christians mis-understand so much, re how -
1. God created us each to heal
(often sans treatments) which neither camp wants to acknowledge.
&
2. Christians also stand to benefit, understanding how via our God-blessed mind, we
(aside each animal-species, like bacteria & virus, etc)- can/does cont. evolving...
Thus you see, Evolution was by God also created: He started-out with basic building-blocks, next Added to them, then gave us Free-choice, to witness what wisdom... we'd apply helping one another. Do what?, well you may ask. Simply continue evolving... why? simple: to PRAISE God! - Exercising our God-blessed intelligence for this purpose, approaches some wisdom...
.

SonOfTheWest · Oct 16, 2010

(when I was 7, I asked the communist atheist-teacher: IF
man evolved from apes, WHY are so many apes, monkeys,
algae-species, & other critters continuing...? as they have for millenias...

)

Considering you were seven when you asked this. It is no wonder you were wrong then and if you continue to ask this question are wrong now. Humans did not evolve from modern apes. They had a common ancestor. It helps to actually know what you are talking about before you talk about it. Otherwise you just make yourself look silly.

sk8Joyful · Oct 16, 2010

SonOfTheWest said:
Considering you were seven
when you asked this. It is no wonder you were wrong then
and if you continue to ask this question are wrong now.
Humans did not evolve from modern apes.
They had a common ancestor.
It helps to actually know what you are talking about, before you talk about it.
Otherwise you just make yourself look silly.

How could you possibly benefit? calling another person 'wrong, ignorant & silly' ?
too many (hiding behind their puter-screen) assume it's pleasurable, making fun of others.
But PAST-evolutions aside, have you (since professing too being a "christian")
anything of humanitarian-value to add... like *Positively HELPing another child of God*.
Too -
what about the other comments re: Evolving our mind(s) to heal... this Intentional evolution'd empower
billions of lives, starting with the UNborn right thru to perpetually youthful... PRAISE God!

Fireinfolding · Oct 16, 2010

I used to play with crayons when I was seven and I still play with them now at 45

ivebeenshown · Oct 16, 2010

SonOfTheWest said:
Considering you were seven when you asked this. It is no wonder you were wrong then and if you continue to ask this question are wrong now. Humans did not evolve from modern apes. They had a common ancestor. It helps to actually know what you are talking about before you talk about it. Otherwise you just make yourself look silly.

1 Corinthians 15:39
All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

Eh... oh well. You know what you know, you know?

sk8Joyful · Oct 16, 2010

Fireinfolding said:
I used to play with crayons when I was seven
and I still play with them now at 45

Kewl!
I used to play with crayons when I was three too
and I still play with them now at 60
and I plan to play with crayons for the next 200+yrs. unless Christ takes me home 1st.
Either way, I plan to continue as an Iceskater... for eternity

And what about you? Sister

Fireinfolding · Oct 16, 2010

sk8Joyful said:
Kewl!
I used to play with crayons when I was three too
and I still play with them now at 60
and I plan to play with crayons for the next 200+yrs. unless Christ takes me home 1st.
Either way, I plan to continue as an Iceskater... for eternity
And what about you? Sister

I know I will be digging the bow round the thone, you can sure meet me there

I hope its not that cold there but wouldnt want it too hot either, good luck bringing your skates

SonOfTheWest · Oct 16, 2010

sk8Joyful said:
How could you possibly benefit? calling another person 'wrong, ignorant & silly' ?
too many (hiding behind their puter-screen) assume it's pleasurable, making fun of others.
But PAST-evolutions aside, have you (since professing too being a "christian&quot
anything of humanitarian-value to add... like *Positively HELPing another child of God*.
Too -
what about the other comments re: Evolving our mind(s) to heal... this Intentional evolution'd empower
billions of lives, starting with the UNborn right thru to perpetually youthful... PRAISE God!

In regards to your anecdote about what you told someone when you were seven. You were wrong. Silly is not necessarily a negative connotation. And ignorant denotes a lack of knowledge, not a lack of intelligence. A doctor while highly knowledgeable in their field of study, is ignorant about say....avionics. If you said the Second Law of Thermodynamics was that String Cheese Is Tasty. I'd also say you were wrong.

sk8Joyful · Oct 16, 2010

ivebeenshown said:
1 Corinthians 15:39
All flesh is not the same flesh:
but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

Eh... oh well. You know what you know, you know?

so TRUE: in fact, our respective inter-species evolutions not withstanding,
the protein-structure of animals, is totally-different from us humans.

We discussed this just recently: as a beginning figureskater,
I said: "gee, if only I could have the thighs of a kangaroo,
or a cheetah, or some other critter... then I could skate fastER, more powerful, & maybe even while flying thru the air, rotate... faster" - Nope! gotta make do with how Well... GOD made us - PRAISE God!
.

pgp_protector · Oct 16, 2010

sk8Joyful said:
so TRUE: in fact, our respective inter-species evolutions not withstanding,
the protein-structure of animals, is totally-different from us humans.

We discussed this just recently: as a beginning figureskater,
I said: "gee, if only I could have the thighs of a kangaroo,
or a cheetah, or some other critter... then I could skate fastER, more powerful, & maybe even while flying thru the air, rotate... faster" - Nope! gotta make do with how Well... GOD made us - PRAISE God!
.

Source for this please?

sk8Joyful · Oct 16, 2010

Fireinfolding said:
I know
I will be digging the bow round the thone, you can sure meet me there

ok, is that "thone", a Throne maybe? - sorry,
don't know what "digging the bow" means. And hopefully
the OP won't be upset re the thread being hi-jacked. Forgive! my questions

Fireinfolding said:
I hope
its not that cold there, but wouldnt want it too hot either,

"there"? - I was taught (EARTH = our Heaven: emotionally now, & physically after we're Resurrected.)
did you learn differently? -
oh boy, now we're really in trouble; as this thread has evolved... right into Heaven: oh well, my favorite subject

Fireinfolding said:
good luck bringing your skates

Well, see - GOD (as we speak this very moment) has enlarged His entire multiverse/domain,
exponentially... a few billion times over
Given all that,
obviously it's mere simple child's play for God to transport a few 100 figureskates,
or anything else for that matter, into Heaven... Cheers!

pgp_protector · Oct 16, 2010

sk8Joyful said:
ok, is that "thone", a Throne maybe? - sorry,
don't know what "digging the bow" means. And hopefully
the OP won't be upset re the thread being hi-jacked. Forgive! my questions

..snip...

Revelation 4:3 (New International Version)

3And the one who sat there had the appearance of jasper and carnelian. A rainbow, resembling an emerald, encircled the throne.

1whirlwind · Oct 17, 2010

Husky7 said:
This verse is not talking about Charles Darwin's theory of evolution, it's simply talking about how and why man made their god's and goddesses into the form of corruptible beings, and things which man could explain and see. The point that Paul was trying to make in this section was that God is not like the animals of the earth, and he does not look like mortal man, he can't be corrupted like the creatures he created.

Darwin's an elderly looking guy but I don't think he was old enough to have been mentioned in the verse. (couldn't pass that one...sorry)

I agree, "the point Paul is making is that God is not like the animals of the earth." As we are "made in His image" then changing His image into animals is, or could be considered, evolution. For, the evolutionists tell us that first came the fishes, then came the creepy crawlies, then came the animals, then came ape, then came man. I see that as changing the image of God into animals of the earth for...God created man in His own image.

Romans 1:20-32, " For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made,[even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God,neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."

So, again Paul is explaining to the Romans why God gave them over to the evil in their hearts. He explains why they, (the Romans/pagans) started to worship corruptible images, rather than God himself. Paul is not talking about "evolution" here, for the theory of evolution didn't exist until many years later. For the record, I do not believe in the theory of evolution...I'm not defending it in any way shape or form.

Certainly the theory didn't exist and I know you aren't defending it and I do understand what you are saying. But, (you knew that was coming ) there are many things written in the beginning that only now are understood. The teaching of evolution is a big, big deal for it has the ability to keep those of a scientific mind steered away from God. Same with the age of the earth, same with the Biblical stories that aren't understood so are deemed ridiculous. Then, because of their ignorance of the truth, they turn away and someone stands there waiting for them.

A few days ago Glen Beck said, "What one generation tolerates...the next embraces." Two that come to mind are....evolution and homosexuality. I'm sure there are many, many more.

.

NightHawkeye · Oct 17, 2010

1whirlwind said:
The teaching of evolution is a big, big deal for it has the ability to keep those of a scientific mind steered away from God.

Vilifying science and evolution is EVIL.

It speaks to the very same mindset which spawns witch-hunts, burnings at-the-stake, crusades, book-burning, etc.

TRUTH is truth, regardless of where it is found. Science is a methodology - nothing more, nothing less. In fact, the methodology of science is applicable to religion as well. A similar concept was behind John Wesley's Methodism. From wikipedia: John Wesley - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Under Wesley's direction, Methodists became leaders in many social issues of the day, including the prison reform and abolitionismWesley's contribution as a theologian was to propose a system of opposing theological stances. His greatest theological achievement was his promotion of what he termed "Christian Perfection", or holiness of heart and life. Wesley held that, in this life, Christians could come to a state in which the love of God, or perfect love, reigned supreme in their hearts. His evangelical theology, especially his understanding of Christian perfection, was firmly grounded in his sacramental theology. He continually insisted on the general use of the means of grace (prayer, scripture, meditation, Holy Communion, etc.) as the means by which God sanctifies and transforms the believer. movements.

In other words: Question for understanding. Question with boldness. TRUTH will remain true under questioning. Deception, however, will fall apart under questioning. Lies will not stand. Questioning is the one tool God has given us to separate TRUTH from LIES.

What is it we are told will happen during end-times --- D E C E P T I O N ---

Those who choose not to question for understanding will be susceptible to that deception. The mere fact that there are dozens of large "Christian" churches attests to that -- each practicing its own version of the TRUTH. Even Revelation acknowledged that most churches don't get all the TRUTH. Some churches in Revelation get very little of the TRUTH. Ultimately, God is personal, and it is up to each of us, individually, to find truth. One needs to study and understand. Most here seem to realize that there is much deception in the churches. (Ever notice all the finger-pointing?)

1whirlwind said:
Same with the age of the earth, same with the Biblical stories that aren't understood so are deemed ridiculous. Then, because of their ignorance of the truth, they turn away and someone stands there waiting for them.

Yes, but realize that works both ways, Whirlwind. Many who truly believe themselves to be of the church are not. Revelation explicitly says so. The Bible repeats that throughout many different books and verses.

TRUTH is on God's side. Questioning is on God's side. Vilifying others is on the Devil's side. Many of those you would vilify are actually on your side.

Science is not anti-Bible and is not anti-God. Evolution is not anti-Bible and is not anti-God.

Some who claim to be of God will not allow questioning. Some who claim to be of God are anti-science and anti-evolution.

Where is the greater DECEPTION, Whirlwind?

Evolution

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