Evolution is the Great Apostasy

Chalnoth · Sep 17, 2006

dad said:
Really? So I guess God is taught to all children there? Prayer rings the corridors of schools? God'e love, rather than torture centers are the arms of the government? Rather than a so called 'way of life' that supposedly needs defending, the country seeks only to defend the weak, the oppressed, the fatherless, and the widows? Or might you be referring to the lipservice of the leaders?

The United States started off with a highly secular government. Many of the founders were Christian, yes, but they also believed very strongly that the free exercise of religion required that God be left out of government.

Since the early days of the United States, religion has been slowly creeping into US government. From "In God we trust" on the money, to adding "under God" to the pledge of allegiance, to the tradition of a White House Christmas tree. None of these things existed when the US was founded. All of them have been added slowly over time.

Today it is almost impossible to hold public office without being a Christian. Public debate is shadowed by debates on issues thought important only by religious fundamentals.

No abortions in Russia?? No homicide in France? No young pregnant gals in Germany? No sex diseases anywhere but the US? My, my. Better think about your wild claims here.

Try reading one sentence further, and using a little bit of common sense.

False. They rounded up Christians as well as others there. You ought to tone down your hate crimes here.

Hitler himself claimed to be a devout Catholic. Anti-semitism in Europe was a direct result of the middle-ages Catholic belief that all Jews were culpable for deicide (killing Jesus). Jews were persecuted all over the Christian world prior to World War II: any other Christian nation might just as easily had a leader rise to power on a rise of hatred against Jews, as they were reviled across the Christian world.

dad · Sep 17, 2006

Chalnoth said:
Chalnoth said:

The United States started off with a highly secular government. Many of the founders were Christian, yes, but they also believed very strongly that the free exercise of religion required that God be left out of government.

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So much so, that prayer was in the schools, and God was a bedrock part of the whole thing. I'd say it is about time that God was required back in, and fast, or it's r.i.p.

Since the early days of the United States, religion has been slowly creeping into US government. From "In God we trust" on the money, to adding "under God" to the pledge of allegiance, to the tradition of a White House Christmas tree. None of these things existed when the US was founded. All of them have been added slowly over time.

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Perhaps because they were understood at the time, now, however, a word to the wise is not sufficicient. They need specific instructions?

Today it is almost impossible to hold public office without being a Christian. Public debate is shadowed by debates on issues thought important only by religious fundamentals.

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Says you. Guess we all ought to throw out what is important to all but you?

Hitler himself claimed to be a devout Catholic.

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A perverted looney tune I suppose can claim what he feels might be convienient, if indeed that was what he did claim.

Anti-semitism in Europe was a direct result of the middle-ages Catholic belief that all Jews were culpable for deicide (killing Jesus).

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They were. This is news? Who do you think paid Judas, and held late night kangaroo courts? -The rastafarians?

Jews were persecuted all over the Christian world prior to World War II: any other Christian nation might just as easily had a leader rise to power on a rise of hatred against Jews, as they were reviled across the Christian world.

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Bull. It was Christians that helped shield, and hide them from the crazed, possessed nazis. Freeing Barrabus, and bearing false witness against the Son of God who was reviled among His Own people was no beacon to light the way of mankind.

Chalnoth · Sep 17, 2006

dad said:
Bull. It was Christians that helped shield, and hide them from the crazed, possessed nazis.

I'm sure there were a few Christians who helped the Jews, but the vast majority of Christians supported Hitler, particularly early on. I'm sure more started to disagree with the Nazi party once it became clear what the endgame was. But Hitler would have never risen to power if it wasn't for the anti-semitism that was prevalent among the Christian members of German society.

Baggins · Sep 17, 2006

FEZZILLA said:
Evolution is an ancient pagan religion and Hitler knew this. .

This is quite the most rediculous statement I have read for some time.

Evolution is a 150 year old theory that explains the diversity of life on earth, how on earth could anyone mistake it for an ancient pagan religion.

The rest of the post is just the normal diatribe that are 2 a penny on Fundies say the darndest things.

Where do these people come from? How can they have such a distorted idea of recent history? In beggers belief.

shernren · Sep 17, 2006

Baggins said:
This is quite the most rediculous statement I have read for some time.

Evolution is a 150 year old theory that explains the diversity of life on earth, how on earth could anyone mistake it for an ancient pagan religion.

The rest of the post is just the normal diatribe that are 2 a penny on Fundies say the darndest things.

Where do these people come from? How can they have such a distorted idea of recent history? In beggers belief.

If I'm not mistaken, it comes from Carl Baugh who maintains that the first mention of evolution was in the Babylonian Enuma Elish. (silly question, silly answer.)

Edx · Sep 17, 2006

shernren said:
If I'm not mistaken, it comes from Carl Baugh who maintains that the first mention of evolution was in the Babylonian Enuma Elish.

Really? How ironic.

shernren · Sep 17, 2006

Edx said:
Really? How ironic.

I don't know where else it would have come from. AiG generally doesn't call evolution "pagan" though it calls it a myth. I have no idea what Mr. Hovind has to say on this issue, but I think he'd be even more extreme and I'm quite sure we're not very interested to know. Hence, Carl Baugh is the most likely suspect. "Pagan religion" in particular sounds quite tell-tale. Of course, I could be wrong. But probably not.

How would this be ironic?

Edx · Sep 17, 2006

shernren said:
How would this be ironic?

The fact that Genesis has its roots in Sumerian and Babylonian legends.

Elduran · Sep 17, 2006

shernren said:
I don't know where else it would have come from. AiG generally doesn't call evolution "pagan" though it calls it a myth. I have no idea what Dr. Hovind has to say on this issue, but I think he'd be even more extreme and I'm quite sure we're not very interested to know. Hence, Carl Baugh is the most likely suspect. "Pagan religion" in particular sounds quite tell-tale. Of course, I could be wrong. But probably not.

How would this be ironic?

Please don't call Hovind a doctor, it belittles the amount of work real doctors have put into their PhDs. See my signature for information on his "doctorate thesis"

Grummpy · Sep 17, 2006

dad1

Jesus never told us to hate Jews, so those doing that are NOT able to use Christian belief, or the bible as any excuse

Yet that is exactly what was done by Martin Luther, Hitler and many others. I don't blame the Christian religion, I blame ALL religions for their "us vs. them" mentality.

Bull. It was Christians that helped shield, and hide them from the crazed, possessed nazis.

Too bad those few Christian who were not also good Nazis in Germany didn't feel the need to sheild the Atheists and gays who went to the gas chambers.

So much so, that prayer was in the schools, and God was a bedrock part of the whole thing. I'd say it is about time that God was required back in, and fast, or it's r.i.p.

Yeah, theistic societies work so well, just look what the Taliban did for Afganistan!!! Or Iran Or Spain, during the(un)Holy Inquisition.

Besides, which god should we let rule, Allah, YHWY, Satan, Budda??? What happened to "Give unto Caeser..."?

No abortions in Russia?? No homicide in France? No young pregnant gals in Germany? No sex diseases anywhere but the US? My, my. Better think about your wild claims here.

Not none, just much less/capita. Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Germany, France, England and yes, even Russia and the former Russian states ALL have less murder, theft, sexual crimes, abortions, unwanted pregnancies, assaults, etc. than does the U.S.. They are all a fraction of our rates. Most are non-religious, some are pagan, all are more moral(at least by these measures).

Prayer rings the corridors of schools?

Actually, noone is banned from praying all they like(unless they are disrupting class or something) as a student in our schools. The hour before a math test could arguably be the greatest hour of prayer in the whole world. Christian students can and do meet together for prayer on school grounds, during the school day.

All the Supreme Court(and our Constitution) does not allow is the schools themselves sponsoring prayers of a particular religion to the exclusion of other religions. That's it.

Or do you think the teachers should allow a Santeria preist to sacrifice a chicken in front of our children when it's their turn??? Or is it your idea that everybody must listen to pastors of only your religion to the exclusion of all others??? What about Satanists, you would not be able to exclude them either, you know.

It makes much more sense for the gov't to stay out of the religious business altogether, leaving those choices up to the parents(the situation we have now).

Grumpy

dad · Sep 18, 2006

Grummpy said:
dad1

Yet that is exactly what was done by Martin Luther, Hitler and many others. I don't blame the Christian religion, I blame ALL religions for their "us vs. them" mentality.

Martin told us to hate Jews? This world is not a garden of pure seeds only. There are seeds of the devil's people, and God's mixed in. What is going on is a seperation, of the wheat from the chaff. It is not a brotherhood of man, but the brotherhoods of man in the same world.

Too bad those few Christian who were not also good Nazis in Germany didn't feel the need to sheild the Atheists and gays who went to the gas chambers.

Too bad the good ones in the US don't stop the torture chambers as well, I guess. But I don't remember God asking us to be gay, or suggesting we admit their sodomy as equal to what He asked man to do? Although Christians can be tolerant of sin, and sinners that men are, we are not supposed to swim in that pool, and push others into it. Why don't the few Christians in Israel stop the cluster bombs that were dropped in Lebanon? Why don't they chip in, and restore all stolen lands from the Palestineans there as well? Let's face it, they can only do so much. Vannunu for example, I think did a great job in standing against their WOMD!

Yeah, theistic societies work so well, just look what the Taliban did for Afganistan!!! Or Iran Or Spain, during the(un)Holy Inquisition.

God can bless a nation if they do their best, preach the gospel, and teach kids right, and have His love. Who sent the most missionaries and taught most kids about Jesus in the last few hundred years? Britain and the US come to mind as near the top of the list. Did they do alright till they started to backslide? I would think so!

Besides, which god should we let rule, Allah, YHWY, Satan, Budda??? What happened to "Give unto Caeser..."?

I prefer that any God be visible, and in the open, and we can use our free will to follow or rebel. Not like the insidious, sneaky, underhanded worship of spiritual darkness and forces behind the scenes foisted on men in the name of science so called.

Not none, just much less/capita. Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Germany, France, England and yes, even Russia and the former Russian states ALL have less murder, theft, sexual crimes, abortions, unwanted pregnancies, assaults, etc. than does the U.S..

Really? I thought I heard Russia had a shortage of one sex, and some kids for awhile, because they followed the anti family commie policies for so long? As for crime, England has areas I would hesitate to walk, as does Russia, and etc. Who has more abortion than China? The US is a violent place, true. I consider it to be the mother of fornications on the earth, actually, whose sorceries corrupt most countries. I also realize that violence covers her as a garment. Her cup is almost full, and she has a double reward coming back to her, I believe. Those that trade by sea shall stand afar off for fear of her torments at her soon coming judgements. I don't blame her sins on God, however.

Actually, noone is banned from praying all they like(unless they are disrupting class or something) as a student in our schools.

AS a group, and as a part of the learning, prayer and God and the bible are long gone. Face it. Why do you think things are as bad as they are? Coincedence?

The hour before a math test could arguably be the greatest hour of prayer in the whole world. Christian students can and do meet together for prayer on school grounds, during the school day.

Right, they can cram in a closet as gays used to still if they wish. It hasn't got that far yet, but the bible will be banned, mark my words.

All the Supreme Court(and our Constitution) does not allow is the schools themselves sponsoring prayers of a particular religion to the exclusion of other religions. That's it.

So it is not a Christian country, correct.

Or do you think the teachers should allow a Santeria preist to sacrifice a chicken in front of our children when it's their turn??? Or is it your idea that everybody must listen to pastors of only your religion to the exclusion of all others??? What about Satanists, you would not be able to exclude them either, you know.

If one wanted a country that was Christian, one could keep the devil where he belongs,. As it is, the old boy has free reign to be in the school thickets as he wishes, and this is thought fair and good.

It makes much more sense for the gov't to stay out of the religious business altogether, leaving those choices up to the parents(the situation we have now).

We have a situation now, it seems to me, where the choices of a majority Christian parent are relegated to lowest status. We have all sorts of things foisted on the sheep that are opposed to the bible, and cloaked in the robe of so called science, and the multicultural morass of good and evil being defined by what feels least painful to everyone but Christians. All the while the claim is made that Christians are equal in the mix, but at the same time despising their heritage, and in effect giving the rule to the enemies of the cross of Jesus.

Grummpy · Sep 18, 2006

dad

So it is not a Christian country, correct.

Correct!!!

Martin(Luther) told us to hate Jews?

Therefore be on your guard against the Jews, knowing that wherever they have their synagogues, nothing is found but a den of devils in which sheer self-glory, conceit, lies, blasphemy, and defaming of God and men are practiced most maliciously and veheming his eyes on them.
-Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)

Accordingly, it must and dare not be considered a trifling matter but a most serious one to seek counsel against this and to save our souls from the Jews, that is, from the devil and from eternal death. My advice, as I said earlier, is:
First, that their synagogues be burned down, and that all who are able toss sulphur and pitch; it would be good if someone could also throw in some hellfire...
Second, that all their books-- their prayer books, their Talmudic writings, also the entire Bible-- be taken from them, not leaving them one leaf, and that these be preserved for those who may be converted...
Third, that they be forbidden on pain of death to praise God, to give thanks, to pray, and to teach publicly among us and in our country...
Fourth, that they be forbidden to utter the name of God within our hearing. For we cannot with a good conscience listen to this or tolerate it...
-Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)

He who hears this name [God] from a Jew must inform the authorities, or else throw sow dung at him when he sees him and chase him away.
-Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)

Yes, the father of all protestant faiths was a vicious anti-semite and the source of Hitler's hatred of the Jews.

In Mein Kampf, Hitler listed Martin Luther as one of the greatest reformers. And similar to Luther in the 1500s, Hitler spoke against the Jews. The Nazi plan to create a German Reich Church laid its bases on the "Spirit of Dr. Martin Luther." The first physical violence against the Jews came on November 9-10 on Kristallnacht (Crystal Night) where the Nazis killed Jews, shattered glass windows, and destroyed hundreds of synagogues, just as Luther had proposed. In Daniel Johah Goldhagen's book, Hitler's Willing Executioners, he writes:

"One leading Protestant churchman, Bishop Martin Sasse published a compendium of Martin Luther's antisemitic vitriol shortly after Kristallnacht's orgy of anti-Jewish violence. In the foreword to the volume, he applauded the burning of the synagogues and the coincidence of the day: 'On November 10, 1938, on Luther's birthday, the synagogues are burning in Germany.' The German people, he urged, ought to heed these words 'of the greatest antisemite of his time, the warner of his people against the Jews.'"

Hitler saw it as carrying out his Christian duty to rid the world of the Jews.

My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before in the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice.... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.... When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom to-day this poor people is plundered and exploited.
-Adolf Hitler, in his speech in Munich on 12 April 1922

Providence shows no mercy to weak nations, but recognizes the right of existence-only of sound and strong nations....
This Jewish bolshevist annihilation of nations and its western European and American procurers can be met only in one way: by using every ounce of strength with the extreme fanaticism and stubborn steadfastness that merciful God gives to men in hard times for the defense of their own lives....
We have suffered so much that it only steels us to fanatical resolve to hate Our enemies a thousand times more and to regard them for what they are destroyers of an eternal culture and annihilators of humanity. Out of this bate a holy will is born to oppose these destroyers of our existence with all the strength that God has given us and to crush them in the end. During its 2,000-year history our people has survived so many terrible times that we have no doubt that we will also master our present plight.
-Adolf Hitler, in a recorded radio address, 24 Feb. 1945

Right to the end he considered himself "a good Christian"

Grumpy

Anything else you wish to know about Martin Luther?

dad · Sep 19, 2006

Grummpy said:
dad
Correct!!!

Guess that is why it is doomed.

Yes, the father of all protestant faiths was a vicious anti-semite and the source of Hitler's hatred of the Jews.

I seem to remember reading some things from him that were suapicious of Jewish people in positions over christians. I don't seem to recall him killing a soul, or telling anyone else to? How would that make him hitler like? Would not something like an invasion of Lebanon, and hundreds of thousands of cluster bombs dropped there be more in that vein? They maim and kill children, you know, did Martin do anything of the sort? No. Who do you think you are talking to, some pushover?

Hitler saw it as carrying out his Christian duty to rid the world of the Jews.

No, I don't think so, I heard he gave lipservice to christianity for political reasons. Some suggest he was occult. Others suggest he was a tool of others. But he did round up Christians as you might know as well as others.
He also attacked countries that had large Christian populations. Do not paint him as some believer.

Right to the end he considered himself "a good Christian"

The devil appears as an angel of light sometimes. Hitler seemed pretty dark, however to almost everyone else in the world, and his wicked fruits were evident.

Anything else you wish to know about Martin Luther?

Did he lose weight on his diet of worms?

kaotic · Sep 19, 2006

Jet Black said:
and if it is millions of years old, then what? is the bible wrong?

No.

Grummpy · Sep 19, 2006

dad

Grumpy
Yes, the father of all protestant faiths was a vicious anti-semite and the source of Hitler's hatred of the Jews.
dad
I seem to remember reading some things from him that were suapicious of Jewish people in positions over christians. I don't seem to recall him killing a soul, or telling anyone else to?

Evidently you failed to read this the first time so:

Accordingly, it must and dare not be considered a trifling matter but a most serious one to seek counsel against this and to save our souls from the Jews, that is, from the devil and from eternal death. My advice, as I said earlier, is:
First, that their synagogues be burned down, and that all who are able toss sulphur and pitch; it would be good if someone could also throw in some hellfire...
Second, that all their books-- their prayer books, their Talmudic writings, also the entire Bible-- be taken from them, not leaving them one leaf, and that these be preserved for those who may be converted...
Third, that they be forbidden on pain of death to praise God, to give thanks, to pray, and to teach publicly among us and in our country...
Fourth, that they be forbidden to utter the name of God within our hearing. For we cannot with a good conscience listen to this or tolerate it...
-Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)

Note how his own words show your statement to be just ignorance.

How would that make him hitler like? Would not something like an invasion of Lebanon, and hundreds of thousands of cluster bombs dropped there be more in that vein? They maim and kill children, you know, did Martin do anything of the sort?

And Katuska rockets or car bombs or bombs on busses just kill the guilty in Isreal, right??? Martin Luther (as shown above and in his other writings) advocated the burning of Jewish places of worship, the murder of any Jew who would not convert and the driving out of all Jews from the country, things Hitler was glad to do, following the religious teachings of the day.

Who do you think you are talking to, some pushover?

No...that one is too easy. You don't want to know what I think you are, dad.

Quote:
Hitler saw it as carrying out his Christian duty to rid the world of the Jews.
No, I don't think so, I heard he gave lipservice to christianity for political reasons. Some suggest he was occult. Others suggest he was a tool of others. But he did round up Christians as you might know as well as others.
He also attacked countries that had large Christian populations. Do not paint him as some believer.

Actually, he himself is a believer by his own profession, as are you. No one is qualified to say whether either of you is a true Christian or not, by the rules of your own religion. He sinned(murder, war, etc), you sin(bearing false witness in these fori almost every post), god will judge you both.

Grumpy

dad · Sep 19, 2006

Grummpy said:
dad

Evidently you failed to read this the first time so:

True, that I am not that familiar with the sidebar musings of great Christians of the past.
I looked it up, and this was the first quiote by him that came up.

"The Jews are blood-relations of our Lord; if it were proper to boast of flesh and blood, the Jews belong more to Christ than we. I beg, therefore, my dear Papist, if you become tired of abusing me as a heretic, that you begin to revile me as a Jew. "
And the site goes on to say, "The Nazis imprisoned and killed Jews who had converted to Christianity: Luther would have welcomed them. "
And, to be fair, he did seem to say some things that were not really that serious, unless I read it wrong.
"Did I not tell you earlier that a Jew is such a noble, precious jewel that God and all the angels dance when he farts? "

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/luther-jews.html

And Katuska rockets or car bombs or bombs on busses just kill the guilty in Isreal, right???

But the things you mention are from terrorists, no? Are you suggesting the cluster bombs etc of Israel also are?

Martin Luther (as shown above and in his other writings) advocated the burning of Jewish places of worship,

Israel advocates the destruction of Palestinian homes, vineyards, and even places like Lebanon, apparently if it suits them.

the murder of any Jew who would not convert and the driving out of all Jews from the country,

Speaking of driving people out of a country, seems your Israel is not without sin there, is it? As for murder, if Martin said that, I am sure he is sorry now, as that is sick. Controling influences non Christian isn a country that thought itself to be Christian, however is fine. Look what happens when they don't do that! What a mess the US is in, for example in that department.

things Hitler was glad to do, following the religious teachings of the day.

Hitler was in no way a follower of Jesus, whether or not he had the savy to ride the political currents of the day there.

Actually, he himself is a believer by his own profession, as are you. No one is qualified to say whether either of you is a true Christian or not, by the rules of your own religion.

We can know a tree by it's fruits. If some despot claims things, I may not judge his soul, but I can judge his actions as at odds with what the Prince of Love taught.

He sinned(murder, war, etc), you sin(bearing false witness in these fori almost every post), god will judge you both.

Poison words from a poison fountain. Thank God I am immune, and welcome the words as an exposure of the one who utters them.

Grummpy · Sep 19, 2006

dad

Israel advocates the destruction of Palestinian homes, vineyards, and even places like Lebanon, apparently if it suits them.

Only if Hezbullah launches rocket attacks and Kidnappings/murders from them. Self defense is a legitamate moral concept.

True, that I am not that familiar with the sidebar musings of great Christians of the past.
I looked it up, and this was the first quiote by him that came up.

"The Jews are blood-relations of our Lord; if it were proper to boast of flesh and blood, the Jews belong more to Christ than we. I beg, therefore, my dear Papist, if you become tired of abusing me as a heretic, that you begin to revile me as a Jew. "
And the site goes on to say, "The Nazis imprisoned and killed Jews who had converted to Christianity: Luther would have welcomed them. "
And, to be fair, he did seem to say some things that were not really that serious, unless I read it wrong.
"Did I not tell you earlier that a Jew is such a noble, precious jewel that God and all the angels dance when he farts? "

Here's a few more of his "humerous" musings.

I had made up my mind to write no more either about the Jews or against them. But since I learned that these miserable and accursed people do not cease to lure to themselves even us, that is, the Christians, I have published this little book, so that I might be found among those who opposed such poisonous activities of the Jews who warned the Christians to be on their guard against them. I would not have believed that a Christian could be duped by the Jews into taking their exile and wretchedness upon himself. However, the devil is the god of the world, and wherever God's word is absent he has an easy task, not only with the weak but also with the strong. May God help us. Amen.
-Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)

Therefore the blind Jews are truly stupid fools...
-Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)

Therefore be on your guard against the Jews, knowing that wherever they have their synagogues, nothing is found but a den of devils in which sheer self-glory, conceit, lies, blasphemy, and defaming of God and men are practiced most maliciously and veheming his eyes on them.
-Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)

Moreover, they are nothing but thieves and robbers who daily eat no morsel and wear no thread of clothing which they have not stolen and pilfered from us by means of their accursed usury. Thus they live from day to day, together with wife and child, by theft and robbery, as arch-thieves and robbers, in the most impenitent security.
-Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)

Alas, it cannot be anything but the terrible wrath of God which permits anyone to sink into such abysmal, devilish, hellish, insane baseness, envy, and arrogance. If I were to avenge myself on the devil himself I should be unable to wish him such evil and misfortune as God's wrath inflicts on the Jews, compelling them to lie and to blaspheme so monstrously, in violation of their own conscience. Anyway, they have their reward for constantly giving God the lie.
-Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)

...but then eject them forever from this country. For, as we have heard, God's anger with them is so intense that gentle mercy will only tend to make them worse and worse, while sharp mercy will reform them but little. Therefore, in any case, away with them!
-Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)

In brief, dear princes and lords, those of you who have Jews under your rule-- if my counsel does not please your, find better advice, so that you and we all can be rid of the unbearable, devilish burden of the Jews, lest we become guilty sharers before God in the lies, blasphemy, the defamation, and the curses which the mad Jews indulge in so freely and wantonly against the person of our Lord Jesus Christ, this dear mother, all Christians, all authority, and ourselves. Do not grant them protection, safe-conduct, or communion with us. . . . With this faithful counsel and warning I wish to cleanse and exonerate my conscience.
-Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)

Let the government deal with them in this respect, as I have suggested. But whether the government acts or not, let everyone at least be guided by his own conscience and form for himself a definition or image of a Jew.
-Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)

However, we must avoid confirming them in their wanton lying, slandering, cursing, and defaming. Nor dare we make ourselves partners in their devilish ranting and raving by shielding and protecting them, by giving them food, drink, and shelter, or by other neighborly acts...
-Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)

Therefore we Christians, in turn, are obliged not to tolerate their wanton and conscious blasphemy.
-Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)

...they remain our daily murderers and bloodthirsty foes in their hearts. Their prayers and curses furnish evidence of that, as do the many stories which relate their torturing of children and all sorts of crimes for which they have often been burned at the stake or banished.
-Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)

He's a real funny guy, that Martin Luther.

Grumpy

shernren · Sep 19, 2006

Isn't plural of "forum" either "forums" or, to be hypercorrect (wiki it), "fora"? Why "fori"? -i is only used as a plural for a Latin word ending with -us, right?

Microquibble.

dad · Sep 20, 2006

Grummpy said:
Grummpy said:

dad

Only if Hezbullah launches rocket attacks and Kidnappings/murders from them. Self defense is a legitamate moral concept.

Click to expand...

Not if it involves wiping out populations, and having WOMD, I would contend.

Here's a few more of his "humerous" musings.

He's a real funny guy, that Martin Luther.

Click to expand...

The quotes you gave there are quite serious, I don't think they were meant to be funny. Guess there was something in there that you think is untrue?

ElijahSent · Mar 31, 2011

Our Oceans Are New and That Invalidates Evolution

Our oceans were found to be "new" with thin ocean floors, plus sediment levels that are also very thin, and in many places there is no sediment at all. This was found to be true all over the world, when sonar and depth finders were invented in man's quest for oil along the ocean floors. None of these facts were available when the logic of geology was being laid out by Charles Lyell and his associates. In short, they set up the logic of geology, without having ALL THE FACTS! We now know however, that the only thick sediment runs up to 1,000 feet or more, and many tons of rocks, etc., have turned into sediment along the foothills of the entire mid-continent ridge system, and it encircles the world. The geologists have always said that the ocean floors "squeezed out" from under the Ridge system, like fax paper coming out of a fax machine, but that is not even possible, due to all the rocks and other sediments that are still piled up a thousand feet or more all along both sides of the entire mid-continent Ridge system. So something entirely different happened. And now everyone agrees that our Oceans are new and not ancient, and the ocean floor sediments are missing or non-existant, when they should be many thousands of feet thick- which proves that all the oceans are new. How "New" are they? The fact is our ocens are very young, about 12,000 years young. Not only that but there is something else to consider. All the water in our oceans is known as juvenile water, and it is not primeval. All this means, in turn, that the whole of the Extended Geological Time Scale is totally off base. And without the millions and millions of years of "deep time" that were never needed(!) the Theory of Evolution is not even remotely possible - and that simply means evolution is invalid, and it has never been valid.
These incredible facts which the brief statement above is built on, were first published by the Smithsonian Institution Press in 1974. You need assume that what this report says is true, in that all the details mentioned above are on page 139 in the book Continental Drift, which was authored by Ursula B Marvin of the Smithsonian.
We have all been in a battle with what was a great hoax that originated back in those days when Englad and France were attempting to drive the Catholics out of their respective countries. Now. "Let the Father's hearts turn to their children, and the children's hearts turn to their fathers." Malachi 3:25 Submitted by Bruce D McKay, Elijah

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