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Most of the differences between humans and chimps are not beneficial mutations... they are neutral. Therefore your restriction to 2 mutations per generation is false. Not to mention we have seen speciation in nature and the lab.....
According to Richard Dawkins:
"Nobody has actually seen evolution take place over a long period"
For the worlds leading evolutionist this is actually a stunning statement! What is Dawkins saying? Well, theres no observable evidence for evolution (which means its not empirical science, which means evolution is a hypothesis at best!). This is pretty earth shaking stuff for the average evolutionist that thinks they are standing on solid intellectual ground.
Richard Dawkins: Evolution... hasn't been observed while it's happening.
- PBS, NOW, 12/03/04.
G. Ledyard Stebbins: the major steps of evolution have never been observed''
- Processes of Organic Evolution, p. 1.
Since evolution is therefore non-observable, evolution rests entirely on faith since it can't be observed.
Dr. Colin Patterson: [describing evolution] unique and unrepeatable, like the history of England unique events are, by definition, not a part of science, for they are unrepeatable and not subject to test
- Evolution, p. 45
Nope, there are many ways that evolution could be blown out of the water.
When a theory survives all attacks, as evolution has it is not evidence that the theory is unfalsifiable, it is evidence that the theory is correct. There has been no valid argument submitted yet that disproves evolution.
Wrong.The vast and overwhelming bulk of all mutations are harmful or fatal so that trying to substitute any more than one mutation into a group of animals at one time would drive he group to extinction.
Wrong again. I gave an example of a beneficial mutation in goosegrass providing resistance to the herbicide glyphosate (roundup), now in the thread archive. Here: http://www.christianforums.com/t3309652/<edit> The experiments with fruit flies proved beyond any doubt that macroevolution is not possible and that in real world terms, the term "beneficial mutation" is an oxymoron.
Wrong.
"Every time human DNA is passed from one generation to the next it accumulates 100200 new mutations, according to a DNA-sequencing analysis of the Y chromosome.
The vast and overwhelming bulk of all mutations are harmful or fatal so that trying to substitute any more than one mutation into a group of animals at one time would drive he group to extinction.
In fact the general rule is that when anybody asks an evoloser to produce a beneficial mutation, they start talking about cycle-cell anemia or some mutation in bacteria which produces some local advantage by losing information. The experiments with fruit flies proved beyond any doubt that macroevolution is not possible and that in real world terms, the term "beneficial mutation" is an oxymoron.
Owwww... the "Pyramid Scientist" has a Quote Mine... I have one too!
Here, Creationist Icon, the Hydraulic Engineer Henry Morris admits that a 6,000 year old universe is absurd :
If the stars were made on the fourth day, and if the days of creation were literal days, then the stars must be several thousand years old. How, then, can many of the stars be millions or billions of light years distant since it would take correspondingly millions or billions of years for their light to reach the earth?
-Henry Morris (1972) The Remarkable Birth of Planet Earth, p 61-62
Here he admits that evolution is a Law of Nature:
Continuous evolution is a universal law of nature
-Henry Morris (1967) Evolution and the Modern Christian. p.34
Here he admits that index fossils are an accurate way to determine the age of rocks:
That is, since evolution always proceeds in the same way all over the world at the same time, index fossils representing a given age constitute infallible indicators of the geological age in which they are found. This makes good sense
-Henry Morris (1977) ICR Impact Series, no. 48.
Here he admits that theistic evolution is a perfectly fine belief:
People can believe in theistic evolution (or progressive creation) and still believe in the Bible. They feel that the evolutionary ages of geology can be accommodated in Genesis, by means (usually) of the local flood interpretation of the Noachian Deluge and the day/age interpretataion of Gods week of creation.
-Henry Morris (1980) Acts & Facts, March issue cover letter
Here Creationist Robert Ginskey admits to the fundamental flaws with a 6,000 year old earth:
The fact is, fundamentalists face a real problem in trying to squeeze dinosaurs into 6,000 years of earth history. The facts just dont allow it, even when Noahs Flood is invoked as an explanation.
-Robert Ginskey (1977) The Plain Truth , May, p 30-31
Here Creationist Geologist/Paleontologist Kurt Wise admits the truth about transitional fossils:
Its a pain in the neck. It fits the evolutionary predictions quite well. (discussing a fossil sequence showing reptile to mammal evolution)
-Kurt Wise (2007) The New York Times Magazine, Nov 25, p34.
Here, Intelligent Design Icon and Lawyer Philip Johnson admits that science is the only reliable path to knowledge:
Science, which studies only the natural, is our only reliable path to knowledge.
-Philip Johnson (1995) Reason in the Balance, p 40.
Here Old Earth Creationist and Astronomer Hugh Ross talks about the limited usefullness of religion:
A mechanical chain of events determines everything. Morality and religion may be temporarily useful but are ultimately irrelevant.
-Hugh Ross (1993) The Creator and the Cosmos
Here I.D Icon Philip Johnson admits that evolution does not equate with atheism:
The blind watchmaker thesis makes it possible to be an intellectually fulfilled atheist by supplying the necessary creation story. It does not make it obligatory to be an atheist, because one can imagine a Creator who works through natural selection.
-Philip Johnson (1995) Reason in the Balance, p 77
Here Creationist Geologist Andrew Snelling admits that granites taking millions of years to form:
Especially the huge masses of granites outcropping in the Yosemite area, must surely have taken millions of years.
-Andrew A. Snelling (2008) Rapid Melting of Source Rocks, and Rapid Magma Intrusions and Cooling, Answers Research Journal, 1: 11-25
Here Creationist Icon Kent Dr. Dino Hovind admits that both deep time and evolution are true:
"The Earth is billions of years old. The geologic column is the way to interpret it, and Charles Darwin's evolution is right."
-Kent Hovind (1996) Unmasking the False Religion of Evolution, Chapter 4
__________________
"When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said 'Let us pray.' We closed our eyes. When we opened them, we had the Bible and they had the land."
-Archbishop Desmond Tutu
Craigslist has warnings about cons and scams. They plainly need to include such warnings in science books in the heading to the chapter on evolution....
One major difference between science and religion:
In science, anyone trying to claim anything without the appropriate evidence or trying to alter the evidence, will be exposed and their career would be ruined (bye bye science career). Science is self correcting, even when someone makes a mistake, there are scientists eager to point out they are wrong and will do so willingly.
I'd say that the "self correcting activity" is the 'group think', and peer pressure processes in both cases. There are "popular' and less popular religions, just as there are popular and less popular scientific theories. The fact that standard particle physics theory is the 'most popular' particle physics theory doesn't stop particle physicists from exploring alternative options.In religion, no such self correcting activity exists and people for the most part, can interpret what they wish and it is usually whatever meets their individual needs.
By the way...
It's not altogether clear what the actual percentages might be, but I believe that most Christians (certainly the Catholics) do embrace evolutionary theory. You could argue that the Pope, and the hierarchy of the Catholic church operates a bit like the peer review process as it relates to scientific topics, at least for that particular "religion". That hierarchical element is missing in the Protestant faiths, which is why we see *less* acceptance within that community.
By the way...
It's not altogether clear what the actual percentages might be, but I believe that most Christians (certainly the Catholics) do embrace evolutionary theory. You could argue that the Pope, and the hierarchy of the Catholic church operates a bit like the peer review process as it relates to scientific topics, at least for that particular "religion". That hierarchical element is missing in the Protestant faiths, which is why we see *less* acceptance within that community.
Also, a poll conducted a couple of years ago revealed, about 40% of Americans believe in creation and reject evolution. This number is so much higher than any other advanced nation, it is laughable and to me, quite scary in some ways.
Now, my theory that many Americans are not honest in how they respond to these polls based on habit, social pressures etc. may play a factor, but it is interesting how different the polls are with other advanced nations.
Michael,
Why do you think Catholics and other religious believers made the giant leap of accepting evolution?
Why the Papal decree though, in regards to a subject that goes against Genesis?
Probably the same thing that motives any scientist to change they're opinions. I think the evidence spoke for itself, but there was controversy, so the hierarchy made a decree about the "best" interpretation of the Bible with respect to specific scientific topics.What motivated the top of the Catholic hierarchy to do this?
Forget the Genesis question. I was thinking about BB theory not EV theory when I asked that question. My bad.
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