Evolution=Atheism

Dark_Adonis said:

Case to the contrary I don't think you've looked too far in to this, I would edit this part of the post real quick...

Seeing your intent I would put forward a hypothesis. My hypothesis is that the number of atheists outweight the number of christians on this forum and thus we are more likely to observe atheists making this claim. In order to test this hypothesis we could do the following:
1)a) Go to the Christian-only forum and see if theistic evolutionists make
that claim.
b) Notice that in the past there are in fact posts by christians stating
that evolution is not atheism
2) Make a poll or cite a recent poll to see the number of atheists versus the number of theists.

Anyone want to help with this experiment?

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Evidence via point (1) (a)
More Evidence via point (1) (b)
Even more Evidence via point (1) (b)
Yet more Evidence via point (1) (a)

Evidence via point (2)

Which is because it is a very common strawman argument, and first before you can get someone to accept evolution, you need to make them realize that doing so wont hurt their christianity.
Most atheists here aren't here to convert people but to get them to accept valid science. And thus this is the first road block to get over.
The Evolution = atheism fallacy can also be used to ignore everything that an atheist says, so its also a way to block off a route of ignorance.

The Son of Him said:

I am a theistic evolutionist. But usually atheist claim "evolution does not equal atheism " first and that caught my attention.

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Because of what you just said! The two are separate! Evolution does not equal atheism! That kills one of your points. Even atheist have said in this very forum that evolution could still happen if there was a creation moment! that kills your second point!

I'm sorry but I just don't see what you are getting at.

I give up

Noe

Is there a link between abiogenesis an evolution ??? yes o no.

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You are reading what people are saying, right??

No, there is no link between abiogenesis and evolution.

So there is no hope to explain abiogenesis and give it a continuity into evolution by sharing perhaps some common principle . Is that it ?

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nooo....until we gain more knowledge about what really happened, there's no reason to assume that abiogenesis is the only explanation.

The Son of Him said:

I am saying that it could and I do not see why atheist get so uncomfortable while trying to point a link between the two., why they do not want to even discuss about it.

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because there is no link, and it gets annoying having to explain there's no link between the two to people who, more often than not, understand neither.

Agree, but then there should be a link between whatever theory of origin of life and evolution.

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why should there be? Evolution isn't helped at all by it.

There are people trying to link quantum mechanics and relativity thru a common theory and here I have people saying there is no link between the origin of life and the mechanism that life uses to progress thru time .

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People try to do that, because there are many things unknown or unexplained in cosmology that a theory of everything would solve.

The Son of Him said:

Is like saying that oxygen and hydrogen are not linked to the cycles of water !!

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No it's not.

It's more like saying we don't need to know how the elements hydrogen and oxygen formed in order to explain the hydrologic cycle.

People have already given you answers as to why abiogenesis and evolution are not linked in discussions. Why you continue to ignore what people write only to repeat the same thing over and over is beyond me. But I'll add my explanation anyway. They are not linked in discussions because they are not linked, period. The mechanisms involved in evolution are not the same as what is involved in our understanding of abiogenesis based upon our investigations of it. Descent with modification by natural selection has nothing to do with abiogenesis. It only matters if replicating life is present, thus they are separate.

The Son of Him said:

I 'm sorry I could not help but notice that all those who claim that evolution does not equal atheism end up showing to be atheists at the end !!!!!!.

They go on supporting evolution and defending their position that evolution does not say anything about God, and when someone dares to hint that evolution is the tool by wich God brought the species to present form, they go crazy denying God!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

So not to go to apologetics here goes the question :

Why is not abiogenesis linked in anyway to evolution ??

I do not get those who claim otherwise. Evolution only speaks about living organisms yada,yada,yada. But seriously, life , and everything about it including its origin should be under the same umbrella, come on !!!.
To defend evolution alone and fearing to talk about abiogenesis is childish (for those who are atheists).

Why ??

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Here it is, abiogenesis and evolution, summed up in one sentence as far as my own view.


Ready for it? Here it comes!!!













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I believe God created all living things, through an evolutionary process.

Larry said:

I believe God created all living things, through an evolutionary process.

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Interesting. Your title says, "Fundamentalist Christian," yet that's not a typical fundamentalist belief.

The Son of Him said:

and when someone dares to hint that evolution is the tool by wich God brought the species to present form, they go crazy denying God!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

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Where did I say that?

The Son of Him said:

Why is not abiogenesis linked in anyway to evolution ??

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Because it's not. Simple.

The Son of Him said:

But seriously, life , and everything about it including its origin should be under the same umbrella, come on !!!.

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Why should they be under the same "umbrella" as you call it? By what logic do you make this link? Who the heck are you to say what two theories should be linked and what should not? Heck, the results of the two processes aren't even the same: one results in life, the other results in change.

The Son of Him said:

To defend evolution alone and fearing to talk about abiogenesis is childish (for those who are atheists).

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Trying to make a strawman link between two completely different theories, dealing with two completely different processes and resultin in two completely different outcomes and cry foul when people show other wise is equally childish.

The Son of Him said:

But I still do not know why atheist evolutionist jump so high when you try to link evolution witn abiogenesis.

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Simple. Because there is no link. When discussing science, it's better that get your facts right.

The Son of Him said:

So you can keep them , I want scientific answers no useless methaphors.

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Define "scientific" answers. This thread has been nothing but unsupported assertions and flimsy attempt to link evolution with atheism. NEITHER evolution NOR abiogenesis excluded God. These theories are the "hows", God is a "why". Science don't deal with "whys".

Only illiterate, unsophisticated commoners can't understand metaphors.

The Son of Him said:

"evolution does not equal atheism" but the irony is that most of the time in the threads you see atheist claiming that !!!!.

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I don't see the irony, because it's a fact. Atheists are merely stating facts, and the fact is evolution and abiogenesis are seperate, and neither exclude God.

The Son of Him said:

Is like saying that oxygen and hydrogen are not linked to the cycles of water !!.

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An irrelavent analogy. Hydrogen and Oxygen are chemical elements - entities with specific identities. Evolution and abiogenesis are processes - scientific theories used to describe events.

The Son of Him said:

There should be a continuity of physical laws to encompass origin of life , to the kind of life derived from that , to evolution of that life , the basic chemical , physical processes should still have a connection.

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Who says? You? Man, that convinced me.

The Son of Him said:

I am saying that it could and I do not see why atheist get so uncomfortable while trying to point a link between the two., why they do not want to even discuss about it.

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Science forums is a place where people discuss facts. The link between evolution and abiogenesis is not a fact, but a strawman. Since there is no fact, there is nothing to discuss.

The Son of Him said:

The question is this: We can encompass electricity and magnetism in a single theory, could the same be done for abiogenesis and evolution ??

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Still irrelevant analogy. The processed behind electricity and magnetism use the numerous common rules and concepts. Evolution and abiogenesis do not.

The Son of Him said:

Is there a link between abiogenesis an evolution ??? yes o no.

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Absolutely not.

The Son of Him said:

So there is no hope to explain abiogenesis and give it a continuity into evolution by sharing perhaps some common principle . Is that it ?

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Nobody hopes for anything of the sort, because there is no such "continuity". Evolution and abiogenesis are two seperate processes with different results and utilize no common rules and concepts.

The Son of Him said:

Agree, but then there should be a link between whatever theory of origin of life and evolution.

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Maybe there should be, but there isn't. Your attempt to do so is filled with strawman and wishful thinking.

The Son of Him said:

There is people trying to link quantum mechanics and relativity thru a common theory

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Simple. Because in that case they are linked by common ideas and concepts. Does not mean the same link can be applied with abiogenesis and evolution. This is a variation of the old "since one is true, it all must be true" fallacy.

Case by case basis, mate, case by case basis.

The Son of Him said:

Thanks God neither Newton, Einstein or Plank thought like that and kept looking for links between physical phenomena !!!!!!!!!!!!

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They kept looking, and they only found links where there are such links. There are no links between evolution and abiogenesis.

So there. And the moral of this story here, kids, is that a brain is a handy tool...


My fingers hurt.

ObbiQuiet said:

Interesting. Your title says, "Fundamentalist Christian," yet that's not a typical fundamentalist belief.

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Hard to put me in a box, huh?

I am in agreement with all fundamental and core Christian doctrines.

Larry said:

Hard to put me in a box, huh?

I am in agreement with all fundamental and core Christian doctrines.

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That's funny, since you can have fundamentalists with different spins from different Christian sects, meaning that not all fundamentalist beliefs agree.

So, if you agree with all fundamentalist Christian beliefs, aren't you contradicting yourself?