Evidence for Design (3)

mzungu · Dec 12, 2013

gradyll said:
its so obvious that you missed it. IF every biological organism was designed versus evolved, you may simply be overlooking it. Now I have given you links, peer reviews, and no lunch theorums, if you don't like the info then thats your jibe. But I am not talking this any more with you.

You have yet to give us a single peer reviewed paper. Stop being disingenuous!

mzungu · Dec 12, 2013

gradyll said:
if ID is the only scientific theory that is accepting a designer at all, then it is part of our forte to acknowledge the design

ID is not a theory at all. It is purely based on Genesis. Do you even know what Scientific Theory even means?

mzungu · Dec 12, 2013

gradyll said:
you use that word again and it will be reported, by me or by someone else. IF you like this thread keep the cussing out of it.

You use that threat so often that I shudder to think if you were the POTUS you would probably press those nuke buttons before you were sworn in. Honestly Gradyl must you take offence so easily? Di not Jesus tell us to forgive

Dave Ellis · Dec 12, 2013

gradyll said:
HAs ID been given an honest chance?

I mean one case to prove it not science.

is that really objective?

usually there are dozens of cases involving the ins and outs.

Dover was political activism by the Judge, and thats wrong. He even mentioned political activism to His criticizers but didn't defend it.

If the ideas of the people promoting ID held up to scrutiny, then it would be accepted as true. However, it doesn't.

So yes, it has been given an honest chance, and if the ID proponents can find supporting evidence for their claims, they still can prove their case... however to this point, they do not have that evidence.

Political activism has nothing to do with it, a complete lack of evidence for ID is what it's all about.

Dave Ellis · Dec 12, 2013

mzungu said:
You use that threat so often that I shudder to think if you were the POTUS you would probably press those nuke buttons before you were sworn in. Honestly Gradyl must you take offence so easily? Di not Jesus tell us to forgive

He's only taking offence and tossing out threats because he was blatantly caught making a ridiculous statement that he can't weasel himself out of.

createdtoworship · Dec 12, 2013

mzungu said:
You use that threat so often that I shudder to think if you were the POTUS you would probably press those nuke buttons before you were sworn in. Honestly Gradyl must you take offence so easily? Di not Jesus tell us to forgive

the forgiveness spoken of in the scripture is as it relates to being sorry for sin.

once you have fealt remorse, repented and or turned from it, forgiveness is possible.

Christ doesn't forgive teh sin, He forgives the sinner.

But that takes faith, accepting of the gift of salvation, and willingness to repenting of all known wrong.

bhsmte · Dec 12, 2013

gradyll said:
HAs ID been given an honest chance?

I mean one case to prove it not science.

is that really objective?

usually there are dozens of cases involving the ins and outs.

Dover was political activism by the Judge, and thats wrong. He even mentioned political activism to His criticizers but didn't defend it.

Yea, you keeping telling yourself about how wrong the judge was grady, but that won't change the evidence or the outcome, which was based on the evidence.

ID needs to prove itself like any other legit scientific theory. Good luck!

Loudmouth · Dec 12, 2013

gradyll said:
I don't think you want to go there. Because here is whats next....a phd in related field. So now whats next is a prestigious institution that I personally like to do my peer reviews, that could possibly be next. So I think I am reducing your pool of peer reviews to what? Nada?

What do you think "peer" means as part of the phrase "peer review"? It means fellow scientists who are in the field you are trying to publish in. Quite often, reviewers are chosen from your citations. In this case, the paper should have been reviewed by scientists who work in the field of bird evolution. Those are the peers in this case.

Loudmouth · Dec 12, 2013

gradyll said:
no mention of God, so you are dead wrong. Plus do you honestly think if it mentioned God (which may in fact be the desinger), it would have been published and peer reviewed?

I notice that you completely gloss over the fact that the argument is a fallacy to begin with.

bhsmte · Dec 12, 2013

gradyll said:
the forgiveness spoken of in the scripture is as it relates to being sorry for sin.

once you have fealt remorse, repented and or turned from it, forgiveness is possible.

Christ doesn't forgive teh sin, He forgives the sinner.

But that takes faith, accepting of the gift of salvation, and willingness to repenting of all known wrong.

Repenting of all known wrong?

How much time to you spend repenting then?

Loudmouth · Dec 12, 2013

EternalDragon said:
I really don't understand how any intelligent person would actually believe that hypothesis.

Really? So surely we can't find a single bird that is incapable of flying and uses feathers for insulation, right? No such species exists, right?

Did you observe it happening?

You don't observe a theory. Do you understand how science works?

Can you test it?

Yes. We can look at the fossil record. We find evidence of feathers in non-flying theropods indicating that feathers served a purpose other than for flying.

Feathered dinosaur - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Loudmouth · Dec 12, 2013

gradyll said:
its so obvious that you missed it. IF every biological organism was designed versus evolved, you may simply be overlooking it.

If every organism evolved instead of being designed, you may simply be overlooking it. Cuts both ways.

The difference is that evolution predicts a nested hierarchy which is exactly what we observe. There is simply no reason why would expect a nested hierarchy from a design process. When humans design things they don't fall into a nested hierarchy. Cars don't fall into a nested hierarchy. Computers don't fall into a nested hierarchy. Even genetically modified species created by humans do not fall into a nested hierarchy.

Now I have given you links, peer reviews, and no lunch theorums, if you don't like the info then thats your jibe. But I am not talking this any more with you.

The one peer reviewed article you have discussed thus far doesn't test ID hypotheses. All it does is ignore evidence for the evolution of flight feathers, and then posits that feathers were designed without any evidence to support the conclusion.

The challenge is to find a peer reviewed paper where they test a positive ID hypothesis. You still haven't shown us one.

OllieFranz · Dec 12, 2013

gradyll said:
the forgiveness spoken of in the scripture is as it relates to being sorry for sin.

once you have fealt remorse, repented and or turned from it, forgiveness is possible.

Christ doesn't forgive teh sin, He forgives the sinner.

But that takes faith, accepting of the gift of salvation, and willingness to repenting of all known wrong.

Jesus will judge us knowing our hearts. He will forgive or withhold forgiveness for His own reasons, which may include remorse and repentence, but which He tells us does include our attitudes and actions toward others.

But we do not know one another's hearts. And we do not know who has repented or who has remorse. We are told to forgive unconditionally, even those who are still sinning against us. And we are told that our withholding of forgiveness fromothers is one thing that will cause Jesus to withhold forgiveness from us.

createdtoworship · Dec 12, 2013

OllieFranz said:
We are told to forgive unconditionally, even those who are still sinning against us. And we are told that our withholding of forgiveness fromothers is one thing that will cause Jesus to withhold forgiveness from us.

An unrepentant person maintains a sense of control over his life through pride, which can lead to destruction, violence, and animosity (Proverbs 8:13; 16:18; 29:23). Turning toward God (repentance) is necessary to break the cycle of destructive behaviors and patterns of relating to others. If as believers we dont require repentance on the part of the offender, we stand in the way of that persons coming to see his need for God and experiencing His forgiveness. To put it simply, forgiveness is a two-way process: repentance on the part of the offender and pardon on the part of the offended

above from:

Should I Offer Forgiveness Without Repentance? | Questions.org

createdtoworship · Dec 12, 2013

bhsmte said:
Repenting of all known wrong?

How much time to you spend repenting then?

that is none of your business, but

everyone must repent.

createdtoworship · Dec 12, 2013

Loudmouth said:
I notice that you completely gloss over the fact that the argument is a fallacy to begin with.

how so? What evidence do you have. I have already shown how avian wings are not meant for warmth, but for flight which is what one souce said. That you guys posted. Shall I proceed with your other arguments?

mzungu · Dec 12, 2013

gradyll said:
how so? What evidence do you have. I have already shown how avian wings are not meant for warmth, but for flight which is what one souce said. That you guys posted. Shall I proceed with your other arguments?

How high do ostriches and penguins fly, I wonder.....hmmm!

Loudmouth · Dec 12, 2013

gradyll said:
how so?

It is an argument from ignorance, otherwise known as a God of the Gaps argument. Lack of evidence for evolution is not evidence for ID.

I have already shown how avian wings are not meant for warmth, but for flight which is what one souce said. That you guys posted. Shall I proceed with your other arguments?

Again, arguing against evolution is not evidence for ID.

OllieFranz · Dec 12, 2013

gradyll said:
An unrepentant person maintains a sense of control over his life through pride, which can lead to destruction, violence, and animosity (Proverbs 8:13; 16:18; 29:23). Turning toward God (repentance) is necessary to break the cycle of destructive behaviors and patterns of relating to others. If as believers we dont require repentance on the part of the offender, we stand in the way of that persons coming to see his need for God and experiencing His forgiveness. To put it simply, forgiveness is a two-way process: repentance on the part of the offender and pardon on the part of the offended

above from:

Should I Offer Forgiveness Without Repentance? | Questions.org

It is strongly suggested that repentence is necessary for the forgiveness and sanctification that Jesus bestows, but we are specifically told that we are to offer our forgiveness freely and unconditionally, and that it is our offering such forgiveness, even before repentence, that might rescue those who sin against us.

Golan · Dec 12, 2013

Evidence for design? what evidence might that be?
Silly question, if there is evidence for design why did the Dover trail verdict go against ID?

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